Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

[3ShowTime2]

Re: Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

It makes little to no sense to have the way to qualify and the what youre qualifying into on different game builds. Of course some players will be better or worse on different game builds. Why would they not keep it consistent or at the very least make both games build available for play when the tournament starts?

Well for 2k18 they have decided to go this way apparently. Pretty sure they will release this build in april so the teams have time to practice on this. If they dont release it also to the public then im sure theyll use it as the base for 2k19. Its makes no sense to work with two different builds in an esports game. It takes more development ressources, you have to maintain two release versions, it may take away some causal viewers who dont want to watch the competitive players play a different game than they play themselves and its harder to balance because you lose all the feedback from the players that play your game daily.

[jyoung]

Re: Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

You currently have people trying out on a game filled with exploits right now. Why not fix the game for EVERYBODY and allow people to try out under the new mechanics and gameplay. Who cares if someone discovers a new exploit. 2k needs to work with a sense of urgency to nerf or fix it. It's that simple.

All of the major gameplay exploits in 2K18 have been well-known for several months now and 2K has done nothing to address any of them. The lack of gameplay-related patches this year has been extremely disappointing. It would be a shame if only 85 people get to play a version of this game that isn't completely dominated by a few cheesy animations (blowby, snatchback, elite 3 escape dribble spam letting people teleport side to side like Raiden from Mortal Kombat, behind the back dribbles clipping through defenders' bodies instead of knocking the ball loose, holding the set screen button in the paint to get position).

It makes little to no sense to have the way to qualify and the what youre qualifying into on different game builds. Of course some players will be better or worse on different game builds. Why would they not keep it consistent or at the very least make both games build available for play when the tournament starts?

A similar situation happened in 2K16 where the crazy full-court breakstarter passes that most teams were abusing to rack up high point totals weren't patched until the final weekend of qualifying for the $250,000 tournament.

2K17's $250,000 tournament was plagued by server lagouts, IP booters, and people being unable to play on qualifying days because their console couldn't get past the initial Paul George loading screen. Several lagouts even happened during the actual knockout rounds of the tournament.

2K just doesn't have a great history when it comes to competitive gaming.

[Kushmir]

Re: Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

[QUOTE=ph33;2049198461]DOTA and CS are good examples. Same game for everyone no matter the scene. When I play DOTA I can only play with people in the slums tiers, because that's my level. When I play against good players, they're going to whoop my *** because they are THAT good at the game and know the small details much better than I. But it's not because they've been playing a different version of the game. It's because they're amazing. Likewise, in CS. An ak-47 doesn't have different recoil in casual than it does competitive. And so when you watch competitive players play and what makes them good, you can try to infuse the same elements in your own game to try to improve a little at a time. [QUOTE]


☝☝☝This all day.

Its perfectly stated...its the difference between competition at the highest level and shrinking the skill gap so the game is "fun". It why so much of gaming at the highest level is shooter-based....because they figured it out early.

I lol'd at your example of not being in the same ballpark as elite players. This is as it should be. Elite players wont play a game where they have to struggle with casuals because block timing doesn't matter or the stepback always creates separation.

Games that truly reward skill will always, always lead the way. See Rocket League, LoL, CS or even R6: Siege for details.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

I'm open to see how it runs out before I judge it. If it's new and unprecedented, that's fine with me; I just want to see the end product and judge that production.

I been trying to figure out how the tryouts work in February. Are you doing skill based training like playing as a Sharpshooter with no badges and no hot zones? I expect you're selecting the build and position you want to try out for. I don't imagine you're doing drills for every skill. I'm curious to know what challenges are imposed in this combine type mode for February.

Regarding the modes we get to play though, I don't see what the hold up is in getting us a competitive mode for at least Pro Am Team. If E-League is played with 85 overall characters and no badges then I could see how their gameplay will be different than ours based on those conditions alone. On the other hand, if they are also using different gameplay sliders then we still won't get that experience even with matched sliders because our characters will have badges and will be higher rated.

Again, I'm open to see how the production pans out regardless of what we get and don't get. I'm still going to judge based on the quality of the E-League gameplay and entertainment. No need for me to judge early before anything has taken place.



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[ph33]

Re: Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

☝☝☝This all day.

Its perfectly stated...its the difference between competition at the highest level and shrinking the skill gap so the game is "fun". It why so much of gaming at the highest level is shooter-based....because they figured it out early.

I lol'd at your example of not being in the same ballpark as elite players. This is as it should be. Elite players wont play a game where they have to struggle with casuals because block timing doesn't matter or the stepback always creates separation.

Games that truly reward skill will always, always lead the way. See Rocket League, LoL, CS or even R6: Siege for details.

I think the one thing those games have that this doesn't is the insane amount of depth in it. Every single game you play will look completely different from one you just did. In DOTA, you can know how to play the game, but part of being a master is knowing ALL the heros, how they work with and against each other, and being able to put the right team combinations in lanes and knowing how to build your hero to effectively counter the other team. That is where the massive learning curve is. In a game like CS, the massive learning curve is knowing the map extremely well and getting a feel for timing of where people may be, knowing how to shoot, knowing where to aim your crosshairs when you turn the corner, etc.

Right now, this mode doesn't have too much depth, and I do think so much of it has to do with people not being able to access other builds unless they dump a ton of VC and time into it. I would absolutely want to play with a pure rim protector if I could and see how that build fits with others. The reason we see so many of the same builds is because there's a lot of pressure on the user to get this one build right cause there ain't no turning back.

There's so many archetype combinations, hopefully those can become the "hero" equivalent to other games where each one has a legitimate use, and the smarter and better team wins because they know how to execute based on what they've got and knowing how to counter.

Makes me wonder if there's going to be a "We pick you pick" system where teams take turns so that they can counter what the other team has. But that's way far ahead.

Like for example, team 1 picks a pure sharp SG. Then nobody else gets a pure sharp SG. Team 2 picks a lockdown SG, and that's off the table. Then team 2 picks a paint protector and team 1 picks a stretch big to counter. Something like that...if you're going to be a "pro" at this game, you should be able to run with any build and adjust on the fly. I think that's where some of the skill gap could be, so that people have to know how to run multiple styles.

[3ShowTime2]

Re: Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

DOTA and CS are good examples. Same game for everyone no matter the scene. When I play DOTA I can only play with people in the slums tiers, because that's my level. When I play against good players, they're going to whoop my *** because they are THAT good at the game and know the small details much better than I. But it's not because they've been playing a different version of the game. It's because they're amazing. Likewise, in CS. An ak-47 doesn't have different recoil in casual than it does competitive. And so when you watch competitive players play and what makes them good, you can try to infuse the same elements in your own game to try to improve a little at a time.

100%. Most of the viewers of esports games love and play the game themself. Games like DOTA etc. are not even remotely accessible to anyone who doesnt play the game himself because you dont understand anything. A lot of the players learn from their "esports idols". So if you would let the competitive scene play a different game you would shoot yourself in your own foot.

[jeebs9]

Re: Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

No need to distract. You dont have an example for an esports game thats works with different builds for the public and competitive environment, no need for further discussion.

There is no need to.... Because... You don't know.....I don't need anything to point to.

[ph33]

Re: Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

100%. Most of the viewers of esports games love and play the game themself. Games like DOTA etc. are not even remotely accessible to anyone who doesnt play the game himself because you dont understand anything. A lot of the players learn from their "esports idols". So if you would let the competitive scene play a different game you would shoot yourself in your own foot.

I do think this game will be much more accessible to everybody else though. Basketball at its core is easy to follow, but like in other games, lots of small details and depth. For example, everybody knows how to set a screen...but I've seen so many bigs that don't know how to position themselves properly, or know when to dive or pop. I remember when I first started DOTA, it was overwhelming "What do I buy, where do I go, what the hell do I do lol" confusion on another level!

It would be great if this sort of thing began to elevate the community's IQ as a whole. So instead of "Which animation do I equip that gets me the most space" the discussion becomes "Oh look how they use these pieces together to create an efficient offense and great team defense, AND those guys are all great on the sticks"

[captainesteban]

Re: Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

It is officially branded as the 2K LEAGUE. There is no "e" in front of it.

[3ShowTime2]

Re: Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

I do think this game will be much more accessible to everybody else though. Basketball at its core is easy to follow, but like in other games, lots of small details and depth. For example, everybody knows how to set a screen...but I've seen so many bigs that don't know how to position themselves properly, or know when to dive or pop. I remember when I first started DOTA, it was overwhelming "What do I buy, where do I go, what the hell do I do lol" confusion on another level!

For sure, thats the great chance for 2k and sports games in general. Anyone can watch a basketball game and cheer for his team as long as he knows the ball needs to be put in the basket. Fundamentally they have access to a much larger audience than all other games. I really wonder why it has taken sports game such a long time to get a foot in the esports scene. Maybe technical reasons, I dont know.

[ph33]

Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

For sure, thats the great chance for 2k and sports games in general. Anyone can watch a basketball game and cheer for his team as long as he knows the ball needs to be put in the basket. Fundamentally they have access to a much larger audience than all other games. I really wonder why it has taken sports game such a long time to get a foot in the esports scene. Maybe technical reasons, I dont know.

I think a lot has to do with the fact that sports games are a yearly title.

In the other games, a minor tweak could be a BIG deal and those come in patches. Buffing/nerfing will affect all kinds of things, and that will impact offline users who may not want anything to do with the E Sports scene.

We haven't had too many gameplay patches for the current game, but maybe that's what this is going to be. We shall see. Like jyoung said, it may be similar to 2k16 when break starter was so abused until the tournament began.

[3ShowTime2]

Re: Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

Id be totally fine with this, though i wouldnt consider this a "different build" but rather a simple balance patch which esports games do constantly.

[TheFinalEvent97]

Re: Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

There is no need to.... Because... You don't know.....I don't need anything to point to.

So because you say it it must be true?
Do you seriously think game devs would change the e league build of a game enough to make a difference and have no players notice who have played thousands of hours? Come on

[jeebs9]

Re: Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

So because you say it it must be true?
Do you seriously think game devs would change the e league build of a game enough to make a difference and have no players notice who have played thousands of hours? Come on

Alright.... I'm moving on if you guys are. At this point it's just my opinion. And that's cool.









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[Viking11]

Re: Issues with 2K e-league being on a different build of the game?

THE EARTH IS FLAT!!! you guys all need to just wake up.

You really think the government is going to tell us?

Wake UP