Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

[Housh123]

Archetypes been here for what 3 years? I think people are about done with them and it’s good for games that come out every year to change stuff up anyway


At first i liked unlocking attributes in sets via 2k16. Then by 2k18 they decided that they unlock in specific order and were not allowed to decide that order. That was cool until it became clear that certain archetypes are just better than others. 90% of guards 6’ 5” and below pick between only about 4 archetypes and 90% of bigs are only picking from about 4 archetypes. There’s no variety.

I think it’s time to go back to unrestricted upgrading. This would eliminate archetypes. If someone wants to make a 7’ 3” 300 pound center with 99 speed then so be it. That means their strength will probably be under 50 or they’ll be sacrificing from somewhere very important. If a guy wants 99 3ball and dunk so be it. He’s probably sacrificing defensively, and on playmaking. Aka his passes will be highly inaccurate and he should lose the ball a fair amount if he tries to do fancy moves

I think this system truely allows someone to create players like Giannis, and Ben Simmons and still provides a balance because if you make your player fit those builds then you will probably have similar deficiencies.


That would probably make the game arcadey and unbearable for some but let’s be honest it’s borderline unbearable right now anyway. I’d rather i have 100% control and it be unbearable than i have 60% control and it be unbearable. This game is gonna be played in an arcade style anyway by the community so why lie to ourselves? Let’s say every player gets 70 attribute upgrade up to 99 then when you hit 99 you get 10 more instantly. That gives ppl a HUGE incentive to upgrade all the way to 99 because right now the only incentive is having your name on a wall NOBODY cares about and rising your gold badges to HOF


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[2_headedmonster]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

No............

[howardphillips214]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

No. Centers shouldn't have 99 speed, wtf? There definitely needs to still be position restraints. Which was why they initially introduced archetypes in the first place. This is only the second year they've done this, 16 you picked outside balanced or inside but they gave you a certain amount of upgrades to use and capped you in certain places.

I'm sorry, but I'm fully against this. Even without an outside player in 16 their Max 3 pointer was a 75 and they were draining with that because you could earn every badge up to gold.

Last year the sharps were over powered and this year they're even more so. Stretch bigs getting rebounds, blocking shots, dunking with glitched animations.

In a setting where we're being restricted there are still people glitching and cheating and playing to the mechanics of the game vs. playing hoops. Opening up player creation again is just going to lead to less diversity than there already is. The meta will be more defined than it is now.

In 18, yes you can 85 a sharp right now and with a good jumper you'll hit wide open. But until you get at least gold badges you're not banging from limitless and you're not hitting pull ups from the corner in people's faces.

The side to side cheese and the blow by, and the step back can be used by any archetype. There needs to be MORE restriction, MORE penalty, and less conformity. The ONLY way to achieve this would be to add a tertiary archetype and make all other ratings putrid.

If I don't put defense in my build I'm getting 40s and 50s in ratings. If I put all 3 of my choices in shooting then I can't do ANYTHING well except shoot. I mean ANYTHING. rebounding, passing, defense, all should be trash. I mean, terrible bad.

If I'm a pure slasher, I might have the Athleticism to play defense, but I'm not getting steals or blocks unless I'm lucky. Iggy was a GREAT finisher coming into the league but everyone said he needed to shoot better and play better defense to be a Superstar.

This way tho we could make Jordan. If I do slashing first, I get my 90 dunk. If I do defense second then I get silver badges and defensive ratings on the 80s. My 3rd I'd do shot Creator for that mid-range game and a 70 3 ball. I'm good.

I wanna make t-mac? Shot Creator, playmaker, passing.

Kahwi? Defense, shot Creator, sharp.

Blake? Slasher, post, playmaker.

Baron Davis? Slasher, defense shot Creator.

Gary Payton? 2 defense, hall of Fame badges, one play maker.

Tertiary archetypes will open up creation when more at the same time hindering and penalizing someone for NOT including it in your build.

You want the best rebounder ever? Go 3 glass cleaners, make him 7'3. Have a 25 speed, 40 defense including blocks, a 25 vertical, and a 25 3 ball and mid.

You want to be a GOOD rebounder, still shoot? Gotta go 2 rebound and a sharp for a 70.

Say you want your shooting slasher? You go slasher first, 90 dunk and then go 2 sharp for your 90 3 ball. That's cool. No hall of Fame badges, you get 90 finishing, 90 3 ball, but you get TURD everything else. Passing is 40, defense is 40, speed and vertical are good but your rebounding is 40. LMFAO

I really think more restrictions and more choices are the way to go.

[illwill10]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

Agree to an extemt I was going to write something very similar in the wishlist thread soon.

As a offline player, I would be for it any way. But it's something that could benefit everyone. I could see it adding more variety online. Like you said, a lot of similar builds. Like Playmaker/ShotCreator, Pure Builds, or 3pt primary buiids. For a mode called MyPlayer, it is very limited and not your player. Where I want to be able to create my own type of player. Obviously want some type of limitations. Like you said, if I want to create an all around player, he would be decent at everything, but not great at anything.

Like a lot of people, i created a build and didn't really like it. If you're creating a dual archetype, it is best to have those builds mesh together. If not you're basically doing it just for the badges because the secondary ratings aren't really good enough for you to attempt those moves. Like if you create a LDD/Sharp, your shooting ratings are in the 60s. So it would be very difficult to get bronze badge. With this system, it is unlikely that someone dislikes their build because it is their choice. Especially if we could choose the badges.

The one thing I would want to see is true Overall ratings. By that I mean, it is known that if you plug your ratings into a created player, you have a completely different OVR. Where if I'm a 93 OVR, i don't want my ratings reflecting a 81 OVR player. There's no way a pure build should be a 99 OVR if maxed.because you're basically a specialist. Like no way a Pure Rebounder should ever even get close to 85 OVR.

[shayellis]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

If its offline, sure. Who does it hurt?

If its online, absolutely not. Because all though the tradeoffs sound good in theory, in practice it would be a circus.
For example strength doesnt mean nearly enough to be an equal trade off if you give someone 99 speed.
Same for shooting. This game is so shooting inclined in Pro Am. That a 99 3 would offset any need to drive at all

[Thrustie]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

I disagree because I think the meta will be even more vanilla than what we have now. I still see SOME variety out there now even if there’s only a handful of guard builds and big builds. With no archetypes or caps by size and weight, everyone will essentially be identical. I want MORE viable builds not less.

[Yesh2kdone]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

2k15 is what the game needs to go back to; when everyone could hit high 90's on most of their attributes, then the skill gap was there. The best players won because they were the best players, not because they could use their sharp to hide behind screens and fire from half court.

Obviously throw in a few more restrictions with things like height, but 2k15 was the most fun park has been. The game had flaws, for sure, but if they switched 2k15's servers back on, I would leave this game in a heartbeat and never buy another new 2k game until they undid these terrible, monotonously boring and repetitive archetypes. Can anyone dispute the fact that since their introductions, the game has become less fun, and more of a grindy chore at times?

[Korrupted]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

I honestly wouldn't mind the removal of archetypes. I doubt if 2k will do it considering this whole 2kLeague thing is about to take off. I wish we could go back to the old upgrade system rather than have to play 10k games to reach 99. I'm not of this years or last years upgrade system at all.

[Vroman]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

there is one important aspect why there must be some archetype/rating limit system . There must be reason to make shorter height/wingspan player and only way to make it rewarding choice is giving it more ratings than taller players.

I really liked 2k15 gameplay in general, but park/pro-am(rec center) was completely ruined by everyone being elite at all categories. 2k16 really improved upon it with general styles and major speed drop off as u pick taller heights.
Both 2k17 and 2k18 got major flaws in the archetype system , introduction of hof badges was the biggest mistake making it look like cartoon characters with super powers. Also balancing between archetypes and player creation options in general is just so poor overall.

Wish they just simplify archetype system a bit and make sure that each choice is completely viable and there are no abominations like pure sharps who are ridiclous OP in one area and completely useless at others. It'd be alot better if maxed players were something like: 1 area very good, couple areas above average, 1 area terrible and rest areas mediocre. And of course badges effect should really be toned down.

[Yesh2kdone]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

there is one important aspect why there must be some archetype/rating limit system . There must be reason to make shorter height/wingspan player and only way to make it rewarding choice is giving it more ratings than taller players.

I really liked 2k15 gameplay in general, but park/pro-am(rec center) was completely ruined by everyone being elite at all categories. 2k16 really improved upon it with general styles and major speed drop off as u pick taller heights.
Both 2k17 and 2k18 got major flaws in the archetype system , introduction of hof badges was the biggest mistake making it look like cartoon characters with super powers. Also balancing between archetypes and player creation options in general is just so poor overall.

Wish they just simplify archetype system a bit and make sure that each choice is completely viable and there are no abominations like pure sharps who are ridiclous OP in one area and completely useless at others. It'd be alot better if maxed players were something like: 1 area very good, couple areas above average, 1 area terrible and rest areas mediocre. And of course badges effect should really be toned down.

But the fact that everyone was elite in everything made it a fair game. I've started playing some park again recently, and I've lost count of the amount of teams I've played against with 2 bigs setting double screen with a sharp taking 35-40 footers all game. It's a terrible experience and 2k15 was never anything like this at all.

I'd agree with hitting the speed for height, and centers shouldn't have 99 for 3's but pretty much everything else was superior.

[Mbunn1993]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

Allow us to level up to 99 in every attribute for offline sakes, and let us carry in a number/percentage of those attribute points to online play that are changeable every session

That team with a 99 3 point spammer just end your streak? Go and take some attribute bars away from offense and put them into defense and be the lockdown defender you need for your squad

[Keith01]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

90% of guards 6’ 5” and below pick between only about 4 archetypes and 90% of bigs are only picking from about 4 archetypes. There’s no variety.

Source? I've seen plenty of variety

I think it’s time to go back to unrestricted upgrading. This would eliminate archetypes. If someone wants to make a 7’ 3” 300 pound center with 99 speed then so be it. That means their strength will probably be under 50 or they’ll be sacrificing from somewhere very important. If a guy wants 99 3ball and dunk so be it. He’s probably sacrificing defensively, and on playmaking. Aka his passes will be highly inaccurate and he should lose the ball a fair amount if he tries to do fancy moves

We've seen this before, it was a cheesefest. 7'3 with 99 speed would be OP even without dribbling, he'd just turbo. This is just a bad idea -- archetypes were introduced to combat OP builds and cheese.

I think this system truely allows someone to create players like Giannis, and Ben Simmons and still provides a balance because if you make your player fit those builds then you will probably have similar deficiencies.


That would probably make the game arcadey and unbearable for some but let’s be honest it’s borderline unbearable right now anyway. I’d rather i have 100% control and it be unbearable than i have 60% control and it be unbearable. This game is gonna be played in an arcade style anyway by the community so why lie to ourselves? Let’s say every player gets 70 attribute upgrade up to 99 then when you hit 99 you get 10 more instantly. That gives ppl a HUGE incentive to upgrade all the way to 99 because right now the only incentive is having your name on a wall NOBODY cares about and rising your gold badges to HOF


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

There's less cheese in 2K18 than there was in 2K14 - 2K17. With your system, the 2K community would exploit the crap out of it. And I'll take less control over unbearable gameplay. But we should be able to choose which attributes are unlocked first + maybe add a few more balanced archetypes if it makes sense.

[Kleinevos]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

Give set builds for online play, like the dota2 character choice screen.

No badges higher than gold, no more than 5 badges per character.

Just seperate myplayer from online all together.


Everyone on the same footing, every game.
Bring on the skill gap.

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[Keith01]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

a must-have is to get rid of HOF Limitless Range. This ruins pro-am because of the (super unrealistic) amount of space it creates -- which is why we see non-stop 5-out sets. How many 40 foot contested 3's do we really see in an NBA game. Even Steph Curry's crazy range isn't non-stop or even happens every game.

[MDSavageBeast]

Re: Get rid of archetypes and go to an unrestricted upgrade system?

I actually vote for the removal of Hall of Fame badges. They got rid of the Grand Badge this year.