NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

[InRodWeTrust]

Re: NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

I think the overall rating numbers are inflated a lot of the time, but I think the play styles and production simulations have been really good for most players.

That damn intangible rating that does nothing but inflate overall

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

The entire scale (25 - 99) isn't utilized, too many players are bunched in the 70's and the don't want to "hurt" players' feelings.

Just because you can go as low as 25 with all the attributes doesn't mean the game should. Stamina is a great example: all players are 70+ because you will break the player going too low.

It would be nice to see more guys in the 60's and even 50's, but it seems they are nearly all in the 70's.

Nah, i disagree with this notion entirely. There simply isn't that much separation between the players ranked 200-500th in the league. They are largely interchangeable based on team fit/need.

The purpose of the OVR is to act as an AI control during season simulation. The wider the range, the less control the roster editor ultimately has. This is WHY the 2K team leans on Intangibles so heavily in the first place.

[J_Posse]

Re: NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

I disagree with both notions, TBH. Then why not scale from 50 - 99 instead of the wider range of 25 - 99?

Yes, the lower tier players are pretty interchangeable (to what degree is a matter of opinion), but once you hit the elite level the gap between them (top 50) and the larger pool is pretty wide.

Fringe, developmental and project players should have a very large gap to an elite level player just like real life....



Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

I think the ratings are tied into NBAPA in a weird sort of way, I remember last generation I want to say 2K12 or 2K13, they had a rating scale that dipped into the 40-50's and I think they were told to stop doing that.

That was a couple years earlier (i believe around 2K9-10).

I doubt the PA had any impact. What actually happened was the game added a ton of attribute types and expanded attributes from 50-99 to the current 25-99 scale.

Under the old system they had much higher ratings (a lot more 90-95 players). There were a handful of guys in the 50s/60s by the early 2010s, due to varying factors.

1. Laziness/Knowledge: Rudy Gobert was famously a first round pick with 52 OVR as a rookie.
2. No archetype modifiers: 3pt shooting barely effected PF/C so specialists like Steve Novak would have low OVR (it used to be even worse than it is now)
3. Before Mike Stauffer there was nobody actually accountable for these things (this includes the 2K Insider dummy account). Players would go literally years without being adjusted.

[WaddupCouzin]

Re: NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

Excellent Points. I couldn't remember when it was but I did remember those low ratings.

That was a couple years earlier (i believe around 2K9-10).

I doubt the PA had any impact. What actually happened was the game added a ton of attribute types and expanded attributes from 50-99 to the current 25-99 scale.

Under the old system they had much higher ratings (a lot more 90-95 players). There were a handful of guys in the 50s/60s by the early 2010s, due to varying factors.

1. Laziness/Knowledge: Rudy Gobert was famously a first round pick with 52 OVR as a rookie.
2. No archetype modifiers: 3pt shooting barely effected PF/C so specialists like Steve Novak would have low OVR (it used to be even worse than it is now)
3. Before Mike Stauffer there was nobody actually accountable for these things (this includes the 2K Insider dummy account). Players would go literally years without being adjusted.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

I disagree with both notions, TBH. Then why not scale from 50 - 99 instead of the wider range of 25 - 99?

Some attributes use the full scale. Others don't.

Fringe, developmental and project players should have a very large gap to an elite level player just like real life....

70 OVR and 95 OVR isn't a large enough gap?

[J_Posse]

Re: NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

Some attributes use the full scale. Others don't.




70 OVR and 95 OVR isn't a large enough gap?

I know, I've been a follower of your work for nearly a decade. I also know you are one of the most knowledgeable editors in the community.

The gap should be wider, IMO. Project big men are a dime a dozen, but the James/Durant/Davis/Curry level are few and far between ("generational talent").

Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

This is roughly the scale 2K has in place:

95-99: All-Time Great
90-94: Superstar
85-89: All-Star
80-84: Above Average Starter / Premium Sixth Man
75-79: Below Average Starter / Good Bench Player
70-74: Below Average Backup
65-69: G-League

I should note that when I edit players using 2Ks scales I don't have a target OVR in mind. They mathematically fall into place (with the exception of PF who have an absurdly bad formula).

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

The gap should be wider, IMO. Project big men are a dime a dozen, but the James/Durant/Davis/Curry level are few and far between ("generational talent").

I don't really understand the critique, because these generational players should be rare (and are rated appropriately).

Few project bigs exist nowadays (Thon Maker?). 15-25 years ago these guys were common but now teams are done wasting their first rounder on them (is 67 Georgios Papagiannis too high for your liking?)

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

Bobby Portis
79 Overall (NC)
Position: PF
Regular Season: Rebounding Scoring Machine

OFFENSE
80 Standing Layup (-9)
70 Driving Layup (+2)
75 Post Fade (-1)
80 Post Hook (+8)
80 Post Control (+5)
50 Draw Foul (-15)
98 Shot Close (+7)
82 Open Shot Mid (-8)
74 Contested Mid (-6)
72 Off-Dribble Mid (+31)
81 Open Shot 3pt (+2)
71 Contested 3pt (+22)
71 Off-Dribble 3pt (+37)
77 Free Throw (-2)
55 Ball Control (+3)
57 Pass Vision (+7)
60 Pass IQ (+8)
55 Pass Accuracy
75 Offensive Rebound (+5)
60 Standing Dunk (+10)
50 Driving Dunk (+10)
35 Contact Dunk (+5)
90 Shot IQ (+2)
80 Hands (+5)

DEFENSE
83 Defensive Rebound
48 Block (-4)
60 Shot Contest (+4)
65 Steal (+4)
55 On-Ball Defense (+4)
65 Low Post Defense (-8)
60 Reaction Time

ATHLETICISM
80 Boxout (+1)
50 Lateral Quickness
65 Speed (+2)
55 Ball Speed (+10)
60 Acceleration
65 Vertical (+1)
70 Strength
80 Stamina
80 Hustle (-10)
80 Durability (-4)

INTANGIBLES
65 Pass Perception
40 Defensive Consistency
65 Pick & Roll Defense (+13)
70 Help Defense (+10)
85 Offensive Consistency
70 Intangibles (-15)
85 Potential (+3)

GRADES
Inside Scoring: B- (from B)
Mid-Range Scoring: B (from B+)
3PT Scoring: B (from C)
Playmaking: C (from C-)
Perimeter Defense: D (from D-)
Post Defense: C (from C+)
Rebounding: A-
Athleticism: D+
Basketball IQ: B- (from C+)

STRENGTHS
Solid combo of mid-post game and outside shooting. Can carry a second unit's scoring load.

WEAKNESSES
His offensive efficiency is canceled out by his defense (2nd worst DRPM among PFs).
A tweener: Isn't a rim protecting five, but also isn't athletic enough to chase modern fours around.
Not an athletic finisher, which caps his long-term potential despite entering Age 23 season.

Rashidi Ratings vs NBA 2K19
98/SF Kevin Durant (-2): Two-Way Superstar
97/SF LeBron James (-1): All-Around Superstar
96/SF Kawhi Leonard (+2): Two-Way Superstar
93/SF Giannis Antetokounmpo (-1): All-Around Superstar
92/C Anthony Davis (-2): Two-Way Superstar
92/C Karl-Anthony Towns (+1): Rebounding Scoring Machine
91/PG Damian Lillard (+1): Athletic Playmaker
89/SG DeMar DeRozan (NC): Playmaking Finisher
88/C DeMarcus Cousins (-2): All-Around Superstar
87/C Andre Drummond (NC): Rebounding Specialist
87/SF Paul George (-2): Lockdown Defender
87/PG Kemba Walker (+1): Athletic Playmaker
86/PG Ben Simmons (-1): Two-Way Superstar
86/SG Donovan Mitchell (-1): Two-Way Star
85/SF Jayson Tatum (-2): Two-Way Wing
84/C DeAndre Ayton (+5): Low Post Star
83/PF Blake Griffin (-3): Athletic Point Power Forward
82/PG Trae Young (+5): Offensive Star
81/PG D'Angelo Russell (-2): Offensive Star
81/PF Jaren Jackson (+3): Elite Defender
80/PG Spencer Dinwiddie (+1): Playmaker
80/SG Jaylen Brown (-4): Two-Way Guard
80/SF Josh Richardson (+2): Two-Way Wing
79/PF Bobby Portis (NC): Rebounding Scoring Machine
78/PG Tyus Jones (+4): Two-Way Point
77/SF E’Twaun Moore (+2): Sharpshooter
76/SF Royce O’Neal (+2): Two-Way Wing
UNEDITED
Will Barton
Taurean Prince
Marvin Bagley
Jarred Vanderbilt
Danuel House

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

NBA 2K18 Starting Point Guards

95-99: All-Time Great
99 OVR: N/A
98 OVR: N/A
97 OVR: N/A
96 OVR: Stephen Curry
95 OVR: N/A

90-94: Superstar
94 OVR: N/A
93 OVR: Russell Westbrook, Kyrie Irving
92 OVR: N/A
91 OVR: N/A
90 OVR: Damian Lillard, Chris Paul

85-89: All-Star
89 OVR: John Wall
88 OVR: N/A
87 OVR: N/A
86 OVR: N/A
85 OVR: Ben Simmons, Kemba Walker, Mike Conley

80-84: Above Average Starter / Premium Sixth Man
84 OVR: Kyle Lowry, Eric Bledsoe
83 OVR: N/A
82 OVR Goran Dragic, D'Angelo Russell
81 OVR: Dennis Schroder
80 OVR: Reggie Jackson, Darren Collison, Jamal Murray

75-79: Below Average Starter / Good Bench Player
79 OVR: Jeff Teague, Kris Dunn
78 OVR: Rajon Rondo, Lonzo Ball, Elfrid Payton, Patrick Beverley
77 OVR: Ricky Rubio, Dennis Smith, De'Aaron Fox
76 OVR: Patty Mills, D.J. Augustin, George Hill
75 OVR: N/A

70-74: Below Average Backup
74 OVR: N/A
73 OVR: N/A
72 OVR: Jarrett Jack
71 OVR: N/A

There are a grand total of three PGs occupying the space from 86 to 92 OVR. The gap that you desire already exists.

If you want to expand the league's OVR range to avoid 75-80 congestion, making various players LOWER will not be the answer. Rather it is expanding them UPWARDS to fill those empty gaps.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

NBA 2K18 Second String PGs

80-84 OVR: Above Average Starter / Premium Bench Player
81 OVR: Isaiah Thomas, Eric Gordon
80 OVR: N/A

75-79: Below Average Starter / Good Bench Player
79 OVR: N/A
78 OVR: Terry Rozier, Jordan Clarkson, Spencer Dinwiddie
77 OVR: J.J. Barea, Ish Smith, Tomas Satoransky
76 OVR: Tyler Johnson, Fred VanVleet, Tony Parker, Shabazz Napier
75 OVR: T.J. McConnell, Trey Burke, Raymond Felton, Shaun Livingston

70-74: Below Average Backup
74 OVR: Milos Teodosic, Jerien Grant, Dante Exum, Cory Joseph, Tyler Ulis, Tyus Jones
73 OVR: Matthew Dellavedova, Shelvin Mack, Devin Harris
72 OVR: Mario Chalmers, Malcolm Delaney, Ian Clark
71 OVR: N/A
70 OVR: Michael Carter-Williams, Frank Mason

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

Combining these two tiers

95-99: All-Time Great
99 OVR: N/A
98 OVR: N/A
97 OVR: N/A
96 OVR: Stephen Curry
95 OVR: N/A

90-94: Superstar
94 OVR: N/A
93 OVR: Russell Westbrook, Kyrie Irving
92 OVR: N/A
91 OVR: N/A
90 OVR: Damian Lillard, Chris Paul

85-89: All-Star
89 OVR: John Wall
88 OVR: N/A
87 OVR: N/A
86 OVR: N/A
85 OVR: Ben Simmons, Kemba Walker, Mike Conley

80-84: Above Average Starter / Premium Sixth Man
84 OVR: Kyle Lowry, Eric Bledsoe
83 OVR: N/A
82 OVR Goran Dragic, D'Angelo Russell
81 OVR: Dennis Schroder, Isaiah Thomas, Eric Gordon
80 OVR: Reggie Jackson, Darren Collison, Jamal Murray

75-79: Below Average Starter / Good Bench Player
79 OVR: Jeff Teague, Kris Dunn
78 OVR: Rajon Rondo, Lonzo Ball, Elfrid Payton, Patrick Beverley, Terry Rozier, Jordan Clarkson, Spencer Dinwiddie
77 OVR: Ricky Rubio, Dennis Smith, De'Aaron Fox, J.J. Barea, Ish Smith, Tomas Satoransky
76 OVR: Patty Mills, D.J. Augustin, George Hill, Tyler Johnson, Fred VanVleet, Tony Parker, Shabazz Napier
75 OVR: T.J. McConnell, Trey Burke, Raymond Felton, Shaun Livingston

70-74: Below Average Backup
74 OVR: Milos Teodosic, Jerien Grant, Dante Exum, Cory Joseph, Tyler Ulis, Tyus Jones
73 OVR: Matthew Dellavedova, Shelvin Mack, Devin Harris
72 OVR: Jarrett Jack, Mario Chalmers, Malcolm Delaney, Ian Clark
71 OVR: N/A
70 OVR: Michael Carter-Williams, Frank Mason

Among the 60 Point Guards listed:
There are 20 Point Guards in the NBA with 79-99 OVR.
There are 30 Point Guards (HALF the list) who fall in the 74-78 OVR range.
I don't understand why there would be much of a need to widen the gap towards the lower end of the spectrum. What purpose does it serve that hasn't already been accomplished?

[J_Posse]

Re: NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

I don't really understand the critique, because these generational players should be rare (and are rated appropriately).

Few project bigs exist nowadays (Thon Maker?). 15-25 years ago these guys were common but now teams are done wasting their first rounder on them (is 67 Georgios Papagiannis too high for your liking?)

You have your philosophy which is fine since I know you put in a lot work, study and understanding of 2K's formulas/algorithms to reach it.

Teams are still acquiring project players (Tony Bradley for example), but they are more impatient than ever and aren't as willing to gamble with high draft pick (ie why so many "quality" big men went undrafted).

Anyway, we'll just have to agree to disagree. You have admit yourself that the algorithms need some tweaking (and not just for PF's), but I'm wrong for thinking overall ratings are inflated or scaled to high in general....

The fact that Tony Parker (76) and Isaiah Thomas (81) are still highly rated are proof of the clear flaws in their current rating system.

Defense isn't weighted enough to account for piss poor defenders (ala Parker & Thomas) amongst other things.

I'll drop it and just say that I appreciate your knowledge and insight, Rashidi. All this stuff is subjective and 2K/roster editors will never be able to account for every variable...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Operation Sports mobile app

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K19 Screenshots and Player Ratings

Teams are still acquiring project players (Tony Bradley for example), but they are more impatient than ever and aren't as willing to gamble with high draft pick (ie why so many "quality" big men went undrafted).

Tony Bradley is 69 OVR.
He is the 14th highest rated player on the Jazz.

There were 96 Players in the NBA who finished the season with a rating >70.
Approximately 56-60 of them were Two-Way Contract players (16th-17th men).
The remaining 36-40 players were largely 14th-15th men (i.e. non-active roster).

(I'm not understanding the issue with this specific example).

Anyway, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I don't think we are disagreeing; rather you made your assessment without looking at the data first.