NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

[PippenFan]

Re: NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

Yall remember this?


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yup. It started with March Madness 99 tho. I bought that one.

[GoDucks1224]

NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

I will likely play with WNBA teams for 1-2 hours. I sit in the boat that hopes not a ton of resources were pumped into this. Why? WNBA just is not popular at all. The WNBA finals see ratings around 0.5. 150,000-300,000 people at most are tuning in to watch the championship games for the league. The numbers tell the story, relative to the NBA nobody cares about the WNBA. Relative to other sports nobody really cares about the WNBA. It's cool that the fans of the league get the ability to play the game, but when you look at the demand, it really isn't there. Even college baseball has more viewers than the WNBA, but nobody will tell you the demand for a college baseball game is there.

If this was an easy addition and didn't really take too much dev time away from other areas of the game, no biggie. If this was the main focus and had a good chunk of resources pumped into it then you gotta wonder what analytics were the driving force behind the decision because the league's popularity was definitely not it.

As opposed to what? Where else would the time and resources have gone? They don’t make monumental gameplay changes every year, and constantly tune throughout the cycle even if they do. That’s all I want to know. What else do you think the ‘time and resources’ should be spent on, without any inside knowledge of the development? What specifically is not going to be implemented, or tuned correctly, because of the inclusion of the 12 teams of the WNBA? Seriously, I’m GENUINELY curious what it is you/others think will be negatively impact by the inclusion of these 12 teams. This is why that complaint bothers me. It seems completely hollow.

[canes21]

Re: NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

As opposed to what? Where else would the time and resources have gone? They don’t make monumental gameplay changes every year, and constantly tune throughout the cycle even if they do. That’s all I want to know. What else do you think the ‘time and resources’ should be spent on, without any inside knowledge of the development? What specifically is not going to be implemented, or tuned correctly, because of the inclusion of the 12 teams of the WNBA? Seriously, I’m GENUINELY curious what it is you/others think will be negatively impact by the inclusion of these 12 teams. This is why that complaint bothers me. It seems completely hollow.

It's not a hollow complaint. I said it very clearly in my post. If this addition didn't really take any resources away then it isn't a big deal. If they spent a lot of resources on this addition and it kept them from fixing certain legacy issues or adding another feature they had hoped to add then I think the decision was questionable given the demand surrounding the WNBA is nearly nonexistent.

[GoDucks1224]

Re: NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

It's not a hollow complaint. I said it very clearly in my post. If this addition didn't really take any resources away then it isn't a big deal. If they spent a lot of resources on this addition and it kept them from fixing certain legacy issues or adding another feature they had hoped to add then I think the decision was questionable given the demand surrounding the WNBA is nearly nonexistent.

See. The thing is... You’re already blaming the implementation of the WNBA for ANY issue you find with the game. By preemptively saying it’s a waste of time and resources, you are assuring that any single disappointment, flaw, or anything negative, will be attributed to the implementation of the WNBA. You are biased against it from jump, simply because you don’t care about it and assume no one else does. That’s why I have such a problem with this incredibly ignorant and unspecific complaint of ‘time and resources.’ I don’t get why this is so hard to understand. All of you keep parroting the same ‘time and resources’ crap but you have no valid reasoning for it, and you’re preemptively blaming it for any and all potential issues with the game. You’re just confirming your biases to yourselves.

[canes21]

Re: NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

You're really assuming a lot in that post and it's basically all incorrect. I wasn't clear enough with my first post, so I will try and say it a different way here.

I only question the decision to put this into the game because the league is basically not desired at all. TV numbers are terrible for the league. Attendance numbers are terrible for the league. The WNBA is really not a desired product. I have zero clue as to how much effort was put into bringing the WNBA into the game. Neither do you. I already said that it was neat that they added it for those that cared, so don't try and say I assume no one cares about this addition. You are plain wrong there and had you read my post carefully then you would have seen that.

I do not question this decision because I have prejudices against the WNBA, because I hate women, or because I assume absolutely nobody cares about it. I question the decision because I am curious as to how much work was put into bringing in something that really is not popular and was not in much demand at all. I've already stated that if this didn't take much effort to add then that's cool. However, if they pumped a lot of resources into this and we missed out on a lot of other improvements to more popular areas of the game then I simply question the decision. That is all there is to it.

I'm glad that you seem to be into the WNBA and are going to enjoy the addition to the game. I know there are going to be a few WNBA fans that are excited also. I bet a small number of female gamers are hyped about this also. I simply don't see where there was enough demand for this to be added unless it took very little effort. Does that make sense to you? The analytics do not add up for this to be a major feature that took required a lot of work so if it did then I simply question their decision. That is it. I'd be asking the same exact questions if 2k had decided they were going to find some weird way to add another mode that was not in demand and was likely to not be that popular.

It's just me questioning the business side of it. I don't doubt that there are numerous people out there that would love to have a college baseball video game again. I know I'd like one. I also know that overall the demand for one is so little that if EA brought the series back I'd really question why they were dedicating the resources to something that had such little demand. I'd be excited to get a college baseball game again, but I'd also be confused as to what would prompt EA to dedicate resources to a sports game that will be relatively unpopular and likely not very profitable. If they took development time away from Madden or any other major title then I'd really be even more confused by their decision.

That is where I sit with this decision. I understand there are people that follow the WNBA and will be happy with this announcement, but I question why 2k decided to add it to the game simply because it is so unpopular and did not seem to really be in demand relative to so much else with the game.

[PippenFan]

Re: NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

Attendance and all that other stuff has been low for years yes, but at the same time one thing I've noticed over the years are tons of videos, posts on forums, social media, etc from fans talking about whether they'd like to see WNBA either get it's own video game or be included in one of the popular NBA ones (NBA Live and NBA2K), and for years many have said yes, so now they get to enjoy this.

At the end of the day this is just a video game so what happens in the real life league isn't any proof that this can't succeed. Many people out there don't watch the current era of NBA basketball but they still buy 2k for one of multiple reasons. The My Park mode to play with friends, the classic teams they can use in either My Team or exhibition games, All Star Team Up perhaps, My League, etc.

The WNBA should be no different as long as 2K does their part in adding that brand to all of those things. Females in My Park will likely be the most popular of everything that comes out of it but atleast having current & classic teams in Exhibition/My League would be a great additional option as well. Especially my League. In real life there's 12 teams and with my league we could create our own custom squads to add to that. Relocate whichever team to where we want. Add Legends and their teammates, and as many Created players as the game allows.

Heck, if done right this could actually help get more people out there into the real WNBA product at some point. Not only to watch, but could even get some girls interested in wanting to play in the real one some day when they get older. May sound silly now but you never know. A lot of NBA players grew up playing the games. Some may have got into the league playing the games first. It's quite possible.

[countryboy]

Re: NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

I will likely play with WNBA teams for 1-2 hours. I sit in the boat that hopes not a ton of resources were pumped into this. Why? WNBA just is not popular at all. The WNBA finals see ratings around 0.5. 150,000-300,000 people at most are tuning in to watch the championship games for the league. The numbers tell the story, relative to the NBA nobody cares about the WNBA. Relative to other sports nobody really cares about the WNBA. It's cool that the fans of the league get the ability to play the game, but when you look at the demand, it really isn't there. Even college baseball has more viewers than the WNBA, but nobody will tell you the demand for a college baseball game is there.

If this was an easy addition and didn't really take too much dev time away from other areas of the game, no biggie. If this was the main focus and had a good chunk of resources pumped into it then you gotta wonder what analytics were the driving force behind the decision because the league's popularity was definitely not it.

Using your figures, if 10% of those 150,000 to 300,000 people wanted/requested the inclusion of WNBA to the NBA 2K series, that is 15,000 to 30,000 new buyers of the game which equates to an additional $600,000 to $1.2M dollars in sales, and that's if they sold at an average price of $40 each. And those new buyer figures don't include those that actually buy season tickets and support the WNBA.

And again I'm only using 10% of the figures you state actually watch the games on tv, and again those figures do not include those in attendance.

I would say that is a pretty decent demand, and incentive, for 2K to include the WNBA into their game.

[Vic_Clancy]

Re: NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

At the end of the day this is just a video game so what happens in the real life league isn't any proof that this can't succeed. Many people out there don't watch the current era of NBA basketball but they still buy 2k for one of multiple reasons. The My Park mode to play with friends, the classic teams they can use in either My Team or exhibition games, All Star Team Up perhaps, My League, etc.

Excellent point. I've ran into tons of people on 2K who have never touched a basketball and don't watch the NBA, but who play the game because they find the game fun or enjoy the competition. Obviously capturing NBA fans is a big part of the business plan, but clearly they need to appeal to more than just that fanbase to be successful. That's clearly the same goal behind including the WNBA. Warning, sarcastic comment: I mean, you might be surprised at how many GTA players don't run around carjacking people and getting into gun fights ).

[canes21]

Re: NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

People not watching NBA, but buying 2k to play MyPlayer and MyPark are very different than people not watching the NBA, but buying 2k to play with WNBA teams. We have clear evidence that modes like MyPark and MyPlayer are in serious demand around the industry. Those modes and the modes like Ultimate Team are what are hot right now. There is zero question surrounding the demand for those additions.

You all may think that the WNBA is wanted enough to not really question its addition. That is fine. We just see it differently.

I just see relatively zero demand for the WNBA. Relative to other major professional sports nobody cares for the league. Even compared to collegiate sports it really doesn't have anyone caring for it. The women's college softball championship games get millions of viewers watching them annually. The WNBA finals games can barely get a quarter million people to tune in. Relative to the other major sports both professionally and collegiate and some other minor sports like women's softball, nobody really cares about the WNBA. That is simply why I question the addition.

Could I be wrong and 2k20 will see 200,000 new sales because of the WNBA's inclusion? Yes. I don't really see that as being likely. I don't even see it getting 30,000 extra sales all by itself like CountryBoy was alluding to it potentially doing. I've searched and cannot find any evidence that the WNBA being included in NBA Live did anything for its sales. I imagine a similar tale for 2k20.

Again, it is perfectly fine if you all think this addition is great for the game, the league, gamers, etc. I simply question it coming from a number's standpoint. The numbers do not lie. You can argue all you want that this is great for the series. All I am saying is look at the numbers and then can you understand why I question this decision? There is relatively no demand for this league. If MLB The Show decided to added women's college softball to their game I would imagine plenty of people would be questioning its addition to the game despite it being much more popular than the WNBA. All I am doing here is looking at the numbers, seeing the WNBA is relatively dead, and questioning the inclusion of the league because it definitely is not added because the WNBA is so popular.

[MajorSupreme]

Re: NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

I don't usually venture outside the Madden and football forums too often, but I had heard about the news regarding the WNBA being in NBA 2K20 and was pretty pleased to see it. I was curious about how OS was reacting to the news, and seeing the wild responses on this thread about the WNBA being included is unbelievable. This idea about "wasting" or "misappropriating" resources in game development is unsubstantiated until release and probably not even quantifiable. How do you measure that? "I saw this glitch in the game, and it would have been fixed if not for the WNBA"? It is the beauty of options and customization. Making the game accessible and fun for anyone. It's one of the reasons why I can play 2K year-long and other sports games fade out after their seasons' end.

Will I play with the WNBA? Likely not, maybe once or twice. But I really like that it is in because I will never sneer at more options being available and having more people feel represented in the game they want to play. I'm all for it.

[countryboy]

Re: NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

I don't usually venture outside the Madden and football forums too often, but I had heard about the news regarding the WNBA being in NBA 2K20 and was pretty pleased to see it. I was curious about how OS was reacting to the news, and seeing the wild responses on this thread about the WNBA being included is unbelievable. This idea about "wasting" or "misappropriating" resources in game development is unsubstantiated until release and probably not even quantifiable. How do you measure that? "I saw this glitch in the game, and it would have been fixed if not for the WNBA"? It is the beauty of options and customization. Making the game accessible and fun for anyone. It's one of the reasons why I can play 2K year-long and other sports games fade out after their seasons' end.

Will I play with the WNBA? Likely not, maybe once or twice. But I really like that it is in because I will never sneer at more options being available and having more people feel represented in the game they want to play. I'm all for it.

Didn't you read though, there is no demand. None of the 150,000 to 300,000 people that viewed the championship game want to play the WNBA in a video game nor do any of the 6700 fans (average attendance in 2018) want to play the WNBA in a video game.

Numbers don't lie. There is no demand for it.

[canes21]

Re: NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

What I find odd is that when you venture into the madden forums you see people crying over and over about how many resources are pumped into MUT and not Franchise mode. Nobody bats an eye at those complaints. Yet, when someone like myself simply says I hope that this didn't take a substantial amount of resources from other areas of the game or else I really question the decision we get railed for having that opinion. I'm not going to sit here and see legacy issues or bugs and say, "Thanks WNBA" when I play 2k20, so people that keep making that argument can just stop. It's a silly argument to make. All we are saying is that IF this took a good effort to implement and took a lot of focus off of other areas that get more playtime then you wonder why they made the decision. Again, that is an IF. You, me, nobody here really knows if this took them 3 days to do and didn't change their plans with the rest of the game. We don't know if this was a huge task and we aren't going to get much more added to the game in terms of new features or polish because of it. None of us know that. Those of us questioning this addition are only saying that IF this is the latter situation then it is a questionable decision.

[canes21]

Re: NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

Didn't you read though, there is no demand. None of the 150,000 to 300,000 people that viewed the championship game want to play the WNBA in a video game nor do any of the 6700 fans (average attendance in 2018) want to play the WNBA in a video game.

Numbers don't lie. There is no demand for it.

I know you are basically being sarcastic trying to be funny, or at least I hope you are, but my post clearly does not state that nobody wants the game and for you to act like it does reflects poorly on you. The fact that you are stooping to a low level post like this just makes it appear as if you have nothing to really say to the numbers indicating the demand for the WNBA is so low that this is a questionable decision if it took a lot of resources to add so you are resorting to trying to be snarky instead of actually coming back with anything of substance.

[countryboy]

Re: NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

I know you are basically being sarcastic trying to be funny, or at least I hope you are, but my post clearly does not state that nobody wants the game and for you to act like it does reflects poorly on you. The fact that you are stooping to a low level post like this just makes it appear as if you have nothing to really say to the numbers indicating the demand for the WNBA is so low that this is a questionable decision if it took a lot of resources to add so you are resorting to trying to be snarky instead of actually coming back with anything of substance.

I responded to the numbers. You just choose to ignore it because it uses the same type of speculation that you're using to suggest this is wasted development time and resources and that there is little to no demand for the WNBA to be included.

You thought if you throw out these numbers and speculation and present it as fact that everyone would accept your opinion as being correct and that would be the end of it. But as usual, when someone refutes and refuses to accept your opinion as fact and presents an differing view, you resort to this type of post to try to agitate that person so that they either get frustrated by you and stop posting, so there is no challenge to your opinion, or they attack you personally thus deviating away from challenging your opinion.

But I'll give you what you want, I'll step away from the conversation because its completely pointless because as you alluded to, nobody knows what all was involved in adding the WNBA into NBA 2k20. It's all pure speculation.

[canes21]

Re: NBA 2K20 Will Feature the WNBA

I responded to the numbers. You just choose to ignore it because it uses the same type of speculation that you're using to suggest this is wasted development time and resources and that there is little to no demand for the WNBA to be included.

You thought if you throw out these numbers and speculation and present it as fact that everyone would accept your opinion as being correct and that would be the end of it. But as usual, when someone refutes and refuses to accept your opinion as fact and presents an differing view, you resort to this type of post to try to agitate that person so that they either get frustrated by you and stop posting, so there is no challenge to your opinion, or they attack you personally thus deviating away from challenging your opinion.

First, this is taken straight from my post and pretty much shows that the bold part of your post is plain wrong.

You all may think that the WNBA is wanted enough to not really question its addition. That is fine. We just see it differently.

Again, it is perfectly fine if you all think this addition is great for the game, the league, gamers, etc. I simply question it coming from a number's standpoint. The numbers do not lie. You can argue all you want that this is great for the series. All I am saying is look at the numbers and then can you understand why I question this decision?

I say it is fine if someone sees it differently and then I go on to say that I only question the decision because of what I see in the numbers. I never once presented that it was a fact that nobody wanted the WNBA in the game, I said the opposite.

My whole view on this is pretty simple, if you think that there is enough demand for the addition then that is perfectly fine. I only disagree with you because when I look at the numbers I see a league that has a very very small following and is a lot less popular than other sports that have had games that were then cancelled due to poor sales(demand) like college baseball or even college basketball.

In no way shape or form did I ever say that my opinion on the matter is fact, that my interpretation of the numbers is fact. All I said is that when I look at how unpopular the WNBA is I question the decision to add it to NBA 2k20 if it took a good amount of resources from other areas of the game. That's all I've said since my very first post on the topic. I haven't said that others are wrong for disagreeing, I haven't said my opinion is the only one anyone should ever have on the topic. I actually said it was okay if we disagreed and that I only ask that people look at the numbers and can at least see where I am coming from.

The only people in here that are refusing to accept other's points of view are those that are in great support of this addition. I know I have no issues accepting that others are excited for this and think the demand is there. I even have it in writing multiple times above that I accept that others will disagree with me. All I ever said was this is my interpretation of the numbers and why I question the WNBA being included into the game. I never said these are the numbers and you must see it my way or you are wrong. Not once did I ever do that.