NBA X’s & O’s

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA X’s & O’s

Great insight. What confused me was that the "hands" on the global sliders is what determine pass deflections and the "hands" on the player edit determines how well a player catches pass correct? Seems like should change the name to one of them lol (oh and by the way I'm on PC but I think the sliders/player attributes/tendencies are the same across the board)

If so, then this is pretty good. I can do a global player edit and lower everyone's "hands" rating to get more fumble passes and loose ball action.

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The slider “hands” will solve your problem or help your problem without having to global edit players hands. It works on catches and rebounds. It’s awesome low as the loose balls and tipped rebounds are fun. More realistic. The play passing lanes is what goes for steals and interceptions and those 1 hand interceptions by bigs on pnr passes.

[Sheitan]

Re: NBA X’s & O’s

vannwolfhawk > I am a big fan of your work, in my opinion 2K should hire you to improve the realism in-game !

I do not have your knowledge and experience about coaching and playbook but I'm pretty good with data analysis and after 2 years of testing I gathered some information in a thread and a spreadsheet on players tendencies to improve CPU decision making and to build players as realistic as they are in NBA. I work on tendencies ranges. The probability a CPU player do a certain action in-game.

If you have time that would be nice if you could have a look !
Thread: https://forums.operationsports.com/f...-creators.html
Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing (anyone can update it in case you want to work with it)

I have some couple of questions regarding your proposal :
1- With your high value in "run play frequency", don't you think it slows the tempo ? Especially during fast break.

2- How do you deal with "first intention 3points" ? Imo the way to go is high values on "contested 3 point shot". This tendency does not mean the shot will be heavily contested it just means "How often a player can take a non open 3 point?"

We see a lot of first intention 3 point shot in NBA.

3- Are you able to recreate the mid-range floater ? I have been working on it quite a lot and imo with floater values above 50, low value in drive pull-up mid-range and low value in attack strong on drive the player takes his time to think about the best shot possible and I have seen some mid-range floater in case of a defensive drop but not as often as we see it in NBA

4- How do you deal with a good repartition of ticket shot and high tempo for a CPU team in a 12minutes quarter game ? Personally I work with high values in "play discipline", good balance in "touches" and low values in "run play frequency" especially to avoid players stopping around the 3 point line during fast break.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA X’s & O’s

vannwolfhawk > I am a big fan of your work, in my opinion 2K should hire you to improve the realism in-game !

I do not have your knowledge and experience about coaching and playbook but I'm pretty good with data analysis and after 2 years of testing I gathered some information in a thread and a spreadsheet on players tendencies to improve CPU decision making and to build players as realistic as they are in NBA. I work on tendencies ranges. The probability a CPU player do a certain action in-game.

If you have time that would be nice if you could have a look !
Thread: https://forums.operationsports.com/f...-creators.html
Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing (anyone can update it in case you want to work with it)

I have some couple of questions regarding your proposal :
1- With your high value in "run play frequency", don't you think it slows the tempo ? Especially during fast break.

2- How do you deal with "first intention 3points" ? Imo the way to go is high values on "contested 3 point shot". This tendency does not mean the shot will be heavily contested it just means "How often a player can take a non open 3 point?"

We see a lot of first intention 3 point shot in NBA.

3- Are you able to recreate the mid-range floater ? I have been working on it quite a lot and imo with floater values above 50, low value in drive pull-up mid-range and low value in attack strong on drive the player takes his time to think about the best shot possible and I have seen some mid-range floater in case of a defensive drop but not as often as we see it in NBA

4- How do you deal with a good repartition of ticket shot and high tempo for a CPU team in a 12minutes quarter game ? Personally I work with high values in "play discipline", good balance in "touches" and low values in "run play frequency" especially to avoid players stopping around the 3 point line during fast break.

Great post and great questions!

1 - I edited all fast break cut and spot ups. The fast breaks are deadly! The cpu won’t run a play on a miss. They look to run in transition and score as fast as possible. If they can’t get a shot then and only then will they stop to pull out and call a play. The cpu does call plays after all makes though. That being said I play at 51-52 game speed and the plays I choose are fast in execution. I, like you wanted to replicate today’s fast pace as well as high scoring games. The new motion and player movement is awesome and players don’t get caught up off ball like they used to. That’s a gamechanger. Plus the cpu is way better at flowing seamlessly into actions and it doesn’t take them forever to get to spots. They run plays on that side of floor. The other thing is to replicate today’s nba and what teams run with Chicago and Pistol actions we have to do through run plays. There isn’t a freelance to give us today’s game unfortunately. But again these plays are fast and get to main action within 5 seconds. I’m having 30-40 point quarters by cpu teams. I really have to lock in defensively.

2 - Yes, in real nba we see a ton of bad contested shots taken. But we also see a lot of those bad contested shots that are contested go in as well. In 2k a contested shot is most often times a 99-100% contested shot and equals a miss 99-100% of the time. That’s why I don’t want the cpu taking to many of those unless it’s late in shot clock or a guy like Durant who might have a tough shots badge. It’s a video game so it’s something we have to do that might not simulate realism but might instead be necessary. So, shot IQ range as well as high spot up, good ball movement, proper play spacing, pass to open man on drives, high help d iq for d to rotate on drives, create open 3’s on drive and kick game. What I’m seeing in my edits is tons of early transition 3’s. But that’s also a edit where I have 25 gets a high number taken in early transition. That with the transition spot up Vs cut high (85-90) provides amazing spacing for shooters in transition. Add to that players 3 point spot up numbers for shooters higher as well. Again, on all misses the cpu looks to score in transition at all costs before running any plays.

3 - That’s 1 of my favorite parts of the game this year is the floaters! The floater is not mid range it’s close range. So what I do is only give close range to floater guys. Like Trey young I have at 75 or 85 in close shot I believe. He kills me on floater game and if I help alley oop to capella. The floater needs to be at 100 as well. I’ll bronze badge floater for those high floater guys as well. Then other guys I have at either 15, 5, or 1. Some guys are 0 out close shots because of last 2k games and that bad contested close pull up shot they used to take. But that isn’t necessary this year. Plus at 0 it gets guys who get stuck or stopped on a drive they sit there and can’t and won’t shoot and get 3 second calls. It’s immersion killer. But it doesn’t have anything to do with mid range at all. These floaters in close will happen from free throw line. In 2k close is the whole lane.

4 - I kind of answered this in previous answers. The higher game speed, fast plays, plays I select, as well as editing each player properly is the key. Plus if you miss the cpu is off to the races. Make shots and it’s a slower pace game and you can get set in your half court defense. But that’s just like real life. Plus with low play calls your going to get the horrible freelances that we can’t edit or change. That I can’t deal with lol! But again I’m trying to replicate today’s fast pace game and high scoring as well and I have had 0 issues because of play calls. Where I had issues was when I had game speed at 50 and everything was slower. The plays were slower, the players getting up the floor was slower, etc. that was leading to 21-23 quarters and it was bugging me! Lol

I hope that helped answer those questions? Thanks for posting that and I will take a loot at the spreadsheet.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA X’s & O’s

I do not have your knowledge and experience about coaching and playbook but I'm pretty good with data analysis and after 2 years of testing I gathered some information in a thread and a spreadsheet on players tendencies to improve CPU decision making and to build players as realistic as they are in NBA. I work on tendencies ranges. The probability a CPU player do a certain action in-game

One thing I do know is ranges definitely changed this year from years past in numerous tendencies. I’d say this year more than any other year. Is the spreadsheet off the last 2 years of testing or this year specifically? I’ve played 100’s of quarters in testing ranges. Old numbers I had didn’t work this year in some but did in others. It was constant testing and tweaking to find where they were at this year compared to years past.

[Reddcheese]

Re: NBA X’s & O’s

Hi Vann,

Amazing detail and work on here I agree that 2k should hire you. Just on contested shots, have u tried lowering the shot coverage impacts slider. I dropped it to 47 yesterday and was seeing much improved % on contested shots. It could be worth a try in order to keep players playing realistically. Another benefit of this is that you can begin to lower the 3 pt and mid global sliders so that open shots are missed more often. Appreciate all your incredible work.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA X’s & O’s

Hi Vann,

Amazing detail and work on here I agree that 2k should hire you. Just on contested shots, have u tried lowering the shot coverage impacts slider. I dropped it to 47 yesterday and was seeing much improved % on contested shots. It could be worth a try in order to keep players playing realistically. Another benefit of this is that you can begin to lower the 3 pt and mid global sliders so that open shots are missed more often. Appreciate all your incredible work.

Thanks man! Yes, I currently have cpu at 25 contest and 35 for shot timing. It’s better but still will probably go lower. But where I have the contested numbers is actually good in game for me currently. They are definitely taking contested jumpers right now at low numbers. But the cpu doesn’t make very many if any which is the problem. That’s why I’m toying with those sliders still. I also have high cpu shooting numbers too. I’m not sure how others are doing but I was really struggling to keep cpu in front of me. I play on broadcast. So I needed to use the gather sliders and drive contact high to combat that.

Every update I have to redo sliders. Usually just movement. So frustrating I have in great spot then update comes. Just dialed it back in today after patch and it’s actually best movement we have had IMO but it had to change drastically again for me. I even had to go back from 51 to 52 game speed. Last update I had to go from 52 to 51. Lol

Anyways, I don’t touch the mid or 3 point cpu tendency sliders. I do lower inside and close though. I haven’t even played a full game yet which I probably should to see total 3 attempts. I have just been testing 1st quarter or 1st half But to good results.

I’ve said this before but the good news is because it’s already scaled it’s an easy global edit now if necessary. But ya I’m still tweaking here and there. After this I might just go drastic and see what zero gets then work my way back up?

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA X’s & O’s

Just so everyone knows, I know this is a playbook thread and we have talked a lot about tendencies. I just wanted to state how important it is for me to dial in plays and how teams use them with all the tendencies done. They go hand and hand.

For example there is a play called Fist 15 kick. It’s a basic PNR play that has the cpu passing to any of the 4 players if open. In testing plays it worked great but they always passed to the same player. But I’m game I want to make sure it’s kicking to any open player so I can assign it to more teams. If the tendencies aren’t right the play might not work. Another example is in Chicago action or pistol action after DHO’s will players take what the defense gives them after the handoff? Will they break the play? If they can then awesome! I can keep it. If not I might want to go another direction.

So, it’s important for me to dial it all in and tie it all together. So sorry for those just wanting specific plays and playbook news. It’s coming. Just had to get tendencies dialed in to finish it up and go from rough draft to final draft.

[Reddcheese]

Re: NBA X’s & O’s

Thanks man! Yes, I currently have cpu at 25 contest and 35 for shot timing. It’s better but still will probably go lower. But where I have the contested numbers is actually good in game for me currently. They are definitely taking contested jumpers right now at low numbers. But the cpu doesn’t make very many if any which is the problem. That’s why I’m toying with those sliders still. I also have high cpu shooting numbers too. I’m not sure how others are doing but I was really struggling to keep cpu in front of me. I play on broadcast. So I needed to use the gather sliders and drive contact high to combat that.

Okay, interesting very low numbers on the timing/coverage sliders. Maybe the jump shot defense sliders are a little high? I've been testing cpu/cpu so not facing the difficulties of staying in front of the ballhandler. Anywho it's all a puzzle but in Vann we trust!

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA X’s & O’s

Okay, interesting very low numbers on the timing/coverage sliders. Maybe the jump shot defense sliders are a little high? I've been testing cpu/cpu so not facing the difficulties of staying in front of the ballhandler. Anywho it's all a puzzle but in Vann we trust!

100%! They are high. Now that I got defense where I want it for user I should probably dial that 1 back! Lol one of the reasons I went high there was with the cpu using stepbacks on me and there was so much distance. But the drawback is the contests for sure… I’m gonna toy with that a bit tonight…

[STLRams]

Re: NBA X’s & O’s

I’m not a spreadsheet guy but I can probably do a video of teams like I did in the past showing each teams edits. Now that there are 10 players per page it should be easier and quicker videos as well. But I won’t do that until it’s 100% complete because last time I did after rough draft and made mass changes after which I didn’t know I was going to need to do…

Definitely do a video of each teams edits for us PS5 guys. I finally picked up 2k22 today and played a few games. I'm already annoyed by the default plays and player tendencies because I can see that this year had so much potential to be a awesome game.

[Slooty2k]

Re: NBA X’s & O’s

Loving this thread Vann, this is all amazing work and definitely looking forward to seeing the final result. I have a question for you regarding post up plays, Im looking for plays that feature the post player setting a PnR with the ballhandler into a post up, mostly to create mistmatches. What might be some examples of these kinda plays or actions?

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA X’s & O’s

Loving this thread Vann, this is all amazing work and definitely looking forward to seeing the final result. I have a question for you regarding post up plays, Im looking for plays that feature the post player setting a PnR with the ballhandler into a post up, mostly to create mistmatches. What might be some examples of these kinda plays or actions?

Been out of town and away from Xbox last few days so not in front of game. 1 play OG the top of my head is punch spread 15 fist or punch 15 spread fist I think? There are 5 or 6 really good ones though I’ll post when I’m back around on Monday …

[VictorMG]

Re: NBA X’s & O’s

Been out of town and away from Xbox last few days so not in front of game. 1 play OG the top of my head is punch spread 15 fist or punch 15 spread fist I think? There are 5 or 6 really good ones though I’ll post when I’m back around on Monday …

This dude just went off the top of his head and knew at least two players for sure. It's crazy how good you are, lmao

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA X’s & O’s

This dude just went off the top of his head and knew at least two players for sure. It's crazy how good you are, lmao

Lol! It’s really not that impressive that 1 and this 1 which I just thought of have been in game since 2k16 I believe.

08 punch 15 fist is only PNR and replace play in the game. That I remember. It’s a PNR into post but has high low option if you throw back to the 4 man who replaced at the top of the key. You can run it for a post big for the 4 nan or 5 man. I like to add that play for teams like the 76ers. Because you can either hit Embiid or Tobias Harris in the post while the other can shoot the top of the key 3 which is where they both like to shoot from. Great must have play for all college rosters as well. Another must have play for college rosters (Gonzaga or Baylor) is Fist 1 weave. Great motion, DHO’s, into pistol or PNR. Can attack off any of DHO’s like a dribble drive almost.

[Kendall_Gilbert]

Re: NBA X’s & O’s

Lol! It’s really not that impressive that 1 and this 1 which I just thought of have been in game since 2k16 I believe.

08 punch 15 fist is only PNR and replace play in the game. That I remember. It’s a PNR into post but has high low option if you throw back to the 4 man who replaced at the top of the key. You can run it for a post big for the 4 nan or 5 man. I like to add that play for teams like the 76ers. Because you can either hit Embiid or Tobias Harris in the post while the other can shoot the top of the key 3 which is where they both like to shoot from. Great must have play for all college rosters as well. Another must have play for college rosters (Gonzaga or Baylor) is Fist 1 weave. Great motion, DHO’s, into pistol or PNR. Can attack off any of DHO’s like a dribble drive almost.

Is there any way us PS5 guys can get a spreadsheet or a list of good plays that you've tested?

I wish I had the eye you have but I don't coach.