Jeremy Lin

[Pitfighter87]

Re: Jeremy Lin

The ball is in his hands so much thats why he gets the numbers and the TO's.Raymond Felton avg 17pts 9ast(career best) last year for the knicks while now he's at 10pts 6ast for the blazers.Numbers are down but he isnt in that PG driven offense anymore.I stated in a previous post and hate repeatin myself but Nash won 2 MVPS in that offense as well.You've gotta be able to play to put up some of those numbers but he's no Chris Paul.

[slimm44]

Re: Jeremy Lin

yes with the amount thats been placed in his hands both literally and figuratively I'd wait to see how he adapts before i started considering it something that he will ALWAYS do.. i know that argument works both ways but he is winning games for his team. It's kind of like when iverson had the bad field goal percentage, they were the type of shots that were easy to put back due to how he would draw the defense.. if that makes any sense.

If you're looking at TO's, look at his Turnover Rate, which is above 20%, meaning he turns the ball over 1 out of every 5 possessions. That's in the bottom-10 of the league.

[agreene7]

Re: Jeremy Lin

I don't understand why everybody is debating on him now. Lets see how he finishes the season. every starter in the league has a hot streak. I know he is good but lets see if he can make it an every night thing.

[slimm44]

Re: Jeremy Lin

then don't troll my response in the first place.. judging by your other responses in this thread you obviously know what you are talking about and i respect your opinion.. but don't belittle mine. I appreciate you trying to objective about it.. but there's a fine line between objectivity, homerism, and haterism i guess. I'm definitely speculating more than you are, I can admit that much.

If you would have said that he's playing as well as anybody in their first 8-10 games, I wouldn't have shook my head. I would have disagreed vehemently but would have been more likely to engage in conversation immediately. Check these out:

Jordan averaged 28 points, 6.5 boards, 5.9 assists, 2.4 assists and only had a TO% of 13 while shooting over 50% from the field his rookie year with a usage rating of 30. He did that for the entire season.

Shaq averaged 23, 14, and 3.5 blocks his rookie season.

Lebron averaged 20, 5 and 5.5 his rookie season.

Those players did what they did with no help, while Lin is blessed to have a team that was supposed to make the playoffs without him at the beginning of the season and have two top-20 talents (probably better) to run with.

But when you said that a player who is essentially a rookie and starts off on a hot streak is playing as well as any player ever, with no qualifiers attached, shouldn't expect anything less than that kind of response. Even when Jordan was a rookie, if somebody would have said he was as good as any player ever, they would've gotten laughed at.

The kid's playing very well, but wait until some of these vets get him. Deron lit him up last night. Wait until he goes to South Beach and faces those Doberman's they have on the perimeter or Boston or has to check Chris Paul or Derrick Rose. I hope he keeps playing at an elite level because the more talent in the league, the better, but only time will tell.

Back on topic, when are you going to post your ratings and tendencies?

[elprez98]

Re: Jeremy Lin

You are entitled to your opinion. They definitely have better track records. But as far as potential is concerned and what he's done so far he's made his team as good as they've ever made theirs.

Its not opinion, its science.

You cannot look at a 10-game sample and extrapolate those results to a full career. That is just silly. The kid hasn't even played a 1/5 of an entire 82-game season, let alone played in a playoff game or won a championship and you are comparing him to CP3 and Nash?

People like you are the reason D-Will decided to drop 38 on the kid.

[bizzyhaze]

Re: Jeremy Lin

Speaking of Lin - I heard they increased his rating from 59... I drafted him in an online league before they made the increase, and he still shows 59. Any idea if it will increase after the season or something?

[hear me now]

Re: Jeremy Lin

I apologize for coming off crude, but may I ask if you are Asian (or Asian American)? I've noticed plenty of people on the University of Illinois campus talking about Lin and most (~90%) were of Asian heritage.

To say that a guy who's averaging 5.6 TOPG in those 10 games he's dominated (and has 55 turnovers in the 9 starts during that stint) has legendary passing ability / court vision is laughable at best. He does some things really well -- which you wouldn't expect because he doesn't have long arms, a ridiculous vertical jump, or killer first step -- such as getting to the line and finish at the rim, but he DEFINITELY has his faults. The other thing you conveniently forget to mention is that all those guys he's "resurrecting" or bringing to the top of their game are limited offensively (either slashers such as Fields or spot up shooters like Novak). He's not exactly taking the ball away from them as they are not likely to create their own offense. He helps them by slashing to the rim and kicking it out to them (or finding cutters) but he's doing so at a heavy expense (especially a PG) of around a 1.7 Assist to TO ratio (top of my head math...not guaranteed to be true! [91-56]). Also, let's not kid ourselves, the offense has NOT improved since Carmelo went down and Amare missed some games. It regressed but the defense improved and that was going to happen since primary offensive players known for their sieve defense were replaced by role-players known for playing defense (Fields, Jeffries, Shumpert, etc.)

I like the kid because he's humble and defying the odds similarly to Manu Ginobili and Gilbert Arenas, but let's stay grounded and NOT go overboard with this "greatest of all time at X because Analyst A and I say so".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiaUXVSyDZc

He does have a fast first step and is quick.That is how he gets to the rim.

[eF 5ive]

Re: Jeremy Lin

The problem with this thread is most the people drawing conclusions arent even watching the games and the others are just repeating what espn analysts state during highlights
:O

[godsgift2dagame]

Re: Jeremy Lin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiaUXVSyDZc
He does have a fast first step and is quick.That is how he gets to the rim.

Huh? Ricky Rubio shut him down the in the second half during their first matchup after he started giving him some space. Shawn Marion didn't have to give him any space and Lin couldn't get by him. That's two premier defenders at their respective positions, but do you honestly think Rose, Westbrook, Wall, or other quick point guards would be stopped in their tracks? I'm going to say no.

How does he get to the rim? Simply put, he utilizes the Pick & Roll with Chandler a ridiculous amount of time he's got the ball. Once he gets around the screen, the defense has two options: either have his defender trail him from behind with the big hedging or switch defenders at which point, if Lin couldn't get by the big, he'd be back on the bench.

A couple highlights on Youtube won't convince me he's got a top-notch first step because otherwise I'll just post a Youtube video of Ricky Rubio getting past LeBron repeatedly and say it's because of his first step.

He does have top notch strength at PG, I'll give him that, but let's not put him on a pedestal and make him the greatest athlete to ever play at PG.

[KensaiKatai]

Re: Jeremy Lin

If you would have said that he's playing as well as anybody in their first 8-10 games, I wouldn't have shook my head. I would have disagreed vehemently but would have been more likely to engage in conversation immediately. Check these out:

Jordan averaged 28 points, 6.5 boards, 5.9 assists, 2.4 assists and only had a TO% of 13 while shooting over 50% from the field his rookie year with a usage rating of 30. He did that for the entire season.

Shaq averaged 23, 14, and 3.5 blocks his rookie season.

Lebron averaged 20, 5 and 5.5 his rookie season.

Those players did what they did with no help, while Lin is blessed to have a team that was supposed to make the playoffs without him at the beginning of the season and have two top-20 talents (probably better) to run with.

But when you said that a player who is essentially a rookie and starts off on a hot streak is playing as well as any player ever, with no qualifiers attached, shouldn't expect anything less than that kind of response. Even when Jordan was a rookie, if somebody would have said he was as good as any player ever, they would've gotten laughed at.

The kid's playing very well, but wait until some of these vets get him. Deron lit him up last night. Wait until he goes to South Beach and faces those Doberman's they have on the perimeter or Boston or has to check Chris Paul or Derrick Rose. I hope he keeps playing at an elite level because the more talent in the league, the better, but only time will tell.

Back on topic, when are you going to post your ratings and tendencies?

so now the knicks were already good before Lin got there? lol

anyways by reading all of this.. thank you for proving to me that you haven't really watched him or the Knicks play this season. 'wait until the vets get to him' is you inferring that he doesn't have what it takes, i'm telling you that he does. That is only my opinion.. if someone had inferred jordan would be the greatest player (which isn't even what i said, i said he's playing as good as anyone ever has) then they would of been right.

you really have serious ego issues when you take my words out of context and make it a sig after you incited me with a trollish initial response in this thread in the first place.. but that's another matter.. i honestly don't even feel like blessing you with my ratings as of this point.. you've already made up your mind..

They are ALL YOURS bro.. make Lin a 49 for all I care.

[KensaiKatai]

Re: Jeremy Lin

Its not opinion, its science.

You cannot look at a 10-game sample and extrapolate those results to a full career. That is just silly. The kid hasn't even played a 1/5 of an entire 82-game season, let alone played in a playoff game or won a championship and you are comparing him to CP3 and Nash?

People like you are the reason D-Will decided to drop 38 on the kid.

sure i can.. it's called speculation. and i'm speculating he will keep playing at a very high level based off what i've seen.. what about that is so hard to understand..

and btw..

when you say things like i'm the reason d-will decided to drop 38 on the kid.. LOL.. that's not only delusional.. it points out how obviously bias your view of him already is... i'm not sitting here rooting for someone to fail. Talk about being miserable..

[KensaiKatai]

Re: Jeremy Lin

Huh? Ricky Rubio shut him down the in the second half during their first matchup after he started giving him some space. Shawn Marion didn't have to give him any space and Lin couldn't get by him. That's two premier defenders at their respective positions, but do you honestly think Rose, Westbrook, Wall, or other quick point guards would be stopped in their tracks? I'm going to say no.

How does he get to the rim? Simply put, he utilizes the Pick & Roll with Chandler a ridiculous amount of time he's got the ball. Once he gets around the screen, the defense has two options: either have his defender trail him from behind with the big hedging or switch defenders at which point, if Lin couldn't get by the big, he'd be back on the bench.

A couple highlights on Youtube won't convince me he's got a top-notch first step because otherwise I'll just post a Youtube video of Ricky Rubio getting past LeBron repeatedly and say it's because of his first step.

He does have top notch strength at PG, I'll give him that, but let's not put him on a pedestal and make him the greatest athlete to ever play at PG.

if you think marion stopped Lin in his tracks as you so aptly put then you did not watch the game.. Even Kidd after the game said he reminds of him of Nash.. marion did well on him in the beginning but Lin had his way that game.. it's all a matter of opinion but when i read some of these responses it feels like you guys don't want this kid to be good...

Look.. there are obviously people who have shared this opinion of him for quite some time.. he didn't get a chance to shine for a reason.. but you guys for whatever reason aren't capable of seeing what he's brought mentally and intangibly to the game or to his team..on a level that few have done.. the physical part has just been feeding off of that.

There are much more physically gifted players than him but not many that can defeat him on a mental level right now and that's a large part of the game.. anyways, i won't argue it anymore.. It is what it is. Time will tell what he continues to do...

[bedwardsroy19]

Re: Jeremy Lin

so now the knicks were already good before Lin got there? lol

anyways by reading all of this.. thank you for proving to me that you haven't really watched him or the Knicks play this season. 'wait until the vets get to him' is you inferring that he doesn't have what it takes, i'm telling you that he does. That is only my opinion.. if someone had inferred jordan would be the greatest player (which isn't even what i said, i said he's playing as good as anyone ever has) then they would of been right.

you really have serious ego issues when you take my words out of context and make it a sig after you incited me with a trollish initial response in this thread in the first place.. but that's another matter.. i honestly don't even feel like blessing you with my ratings as of this point.. you've already made up your mind..

They are ALL YOURS bro.. make Lin a 49 for all I care.

How about me then. I have remained out of the conversation (at the very least said nothing disrespectful to anyone), I'd really like to see where you have him.

You seem to REALLY like this kid, ratings are the only way we can tell how much.

[Pitfighter87]

Re: Jeremy Lin

I dont think anyone on here is rooting for him to fail i think theyre just tired of people clamin he's this superstar PG when he hasnt even had a whole season or two to prove himself.

[godsgift2dagame]

Re: Jeremy Lin

if you think marion stopped Lin in his tracks as you so aptly put then you did not watch the game.. Even Kidd after the game said he reminds of him of Nash.. marion did well on him in the beginning but Lin had his way that game.. it's all a matter of opinion but when i read some of these responses it feels like you guys don't want this kid to be good...

He definitely played a nice game, but from what I saw he was nailing a bunch of long, contested 2 (and 3) pointers, not getting to the rim much. The one shot at the rim that I still remember right now was when he fell to the ground and threw up this awkward shot off the backboard (didn't hit rim) only to have Chandler clean it up on other side of the hoop. Why would I not want Lin to be good? If anything, he's the one good (great possibly) player many here can strive to emulate in terms of physical attributes and athleticism. Plus, the trolling on Youtube will be epic. I just have a problem with people calling him the next big thing, because it's kind of funny that 10 games will have a huge group of people coming out of the woodworks claiming they "KNEW" he was this good and stuff and more importantly, overshadowing one of the greatest seasons ever put on display (LeBron + Durant epic scoring season).

Look.. there are obviously people who have shared this opinion of him for quite some time.. he didn't get a chance to shine for a reason.. but you guys for whatever reason aren't capable of seeing what he's brought mentally and intangibly to the game or to his team..on a level that few have done.. the physical part has just been feeding off of that.

Can I ask you why you think it's all on Lin again? Do you not think a guy like Rose could do all those things you describe Lin of doing? I mean, he'd get the PERFECT roster surrounding him (garbage cleaner & defensive anchor Chandler, spot up PF in Novak, slasher & good defender in Fields)? I mean, this was the SAME excuse used to dismiss LeBron's amazing 7 season streak...he had the ball in his hands all the time (etc). I've mentioned he's a good player (and used evidence to back it up) but he's on the level of a guy like Rubio, NOT a guy like LeBron. I don't know why it is you consider anyone not bestowing him the title of "next Magic" a ***** or whatever.

There are much more physically gifted players than him but not many that can defeat him on a mental level right now and that's a large part of the game.. anyways, i won't argue it anymore.. It is what it is. Time will tell what he continues to do...

It's also funny that you've yet to explain his ridiculous turnover rate. It's mind-boggingly hilarious how the media hushes it up simply because they're trying to create an Asian superstar.

Also, he's currently #2 in the entire NBA in isolation situations (1.16PPP) which just won't last. He's NOT a better isolation player than guys like Wade, Bryant, Nowitzki, etc. He'll drop off, the question is how much.

This is a shortened season and there's not much footage of Lin to go off of (especially since this streak didn't begin at the start of the season but about 1/3 of the way through it...) so let's wait until teams get some footage of him. I have a really hard time seeing an average athlete continue to finish with the best of them in isolation.