Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

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  • Chief00
    Banned
    • Jan 2010
    • 9

    #31
    Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

    Originally posted by blues rocker
    I would say that Live plays quite realistic with no slider adjustments. The only areas where Live isn't realistic is it's too easy to hit contested shots and/or shots with body contact, and there isn't really a post up game in Live. Other than that Live is VERY realistic in every other way.

    What I really love about Live is the body contact - you can step in front of a guy and he won't just slip by you - he will collide with you and you will stop his progress - you can really stop a ball handler by staying in front of him and bumping him. Live 10 is the first game that has successfully done these types of collisions and body contact. In 2k it is way too easy to get into the paint and score because 2k lacks this type of realistic body contact. 2k's defensive AI is also lacking which results in players leaving wide open lanes to the hoop too often. Live's players rarely leave wide open lanes to the hoop, so you reallly have to work to get into the paint - I love this aspect about Live.

    Live's player movement and dribbling are also very smooth and responsive (this is an area where 2k falls short).
    I'm not disagreeing with you. Live does some things very well. The physics engine is much more up to date and how players animate. The animations are better in 2k, but the player models are much more organic in live. That said there are still things wrong with it. It hasn't progressed enough where they have realistic tendencies and player movement. The steals and interceptions and the way players move without the ball and set up and animate is not up to par. I'm not saying it's bad. It's just not doing what realistic players do. Yes some of the surface stuff is good and sig shots, but its more whats going on underneath. 2k the way players move is more free form where EA has this rubberband logic. Player movement off the ball also isnt nearly as good. I'm not saying it doesnt have potential, but right now this plays way too much like an arcade game. Players and teams still don't differentiate themselves enough.
    Last edited by Chief00; 01-04-2010, 12:57 PM.

    Comment

    • carnalnirvana
      Pro
      • Jan 2007
      • 1981

      #32
      Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

      Originally posted by Chief00
      I'm not disagreeing with you. Live does some things very well. The physics engine is much more up to date and how players animate. The animations are better in 2k, but the player models are much more organic in live. That said there are still things wrong with it. It's not progressed enough where they have realistic tendencies and player movement. The steals and interceptions and the way players move without the ball and set up and animate is not up to par. I'm not saying it's bad. It's just not doing what realistic players do. Yes some of the surface stuff is good and sig shots, but its more whats going on underneath. 2k the way players move is more free form where EA has this rubberband logic. Player movement off the ball also isnt nearly as good. I'm not saying it doesnt have potential but right now this plays way too much like an arcade game. Players and teams still don't differentiate themselves enough.
      i have to COMPLETELY disagree on the 2k stuff, but this thread is not the place for this discussion, so i'm not going to touch that.

      if i had the tools the devs have this game could play better. the ratings are so OFF it makes the game play like garbage

      another poster said the reb game has no life no struggle, how can it when KG has an off box out rating of 55 or a sink & swim of 44 and a guy like noah with garbage ratings on the glass RAISE THESE and there are more animations to trigger stuff like reb strenght you see guys snatching boards down with authority...

      i feel they leave stuff so low, so the animations trigger fewer times so the game can appear fresh over a longer period.... i dont know i just cant grasp their logic

      i'm looking at bosh as i type and its amazing he is no different than someone like brook lopez, someone needs to really go in sort out player differences WAY better. when you look at bosh he is ineffective for the cpu beyond 10feet away because of these sloppy ratings so they just shoot the jumper every time. a human will grind their way to a better shot but the cpu calculates and pulls up 90% of the time
      NOW PLAYING: NBA Live, madden 11,12, battlefield v, F1 2020 and injustice 2 and COD:MW

      #18 greatest EVA....

      Comment

      • ehh
        Hall Of Fame
        • Mar 2003
        • 28962

        #33
        Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

        Despite all the issues with the game it is my basketball game of choice this winter. I sold 2K10 after owning it for less than two weeks, that game just isn't for me. This is the first NBA game since 2007 that I played past New Year's.

        The thing that's really surprised me is that Live's gameplay has practically killed CH2K8 for me. I can barely play 2K8 because it's so "un-sim" by comparison especially when it comes to basketball strategy. Still the deepest sports game ever made and incredibly fun but Live is much more realistic. At this point 2K8 is essentially a fun arcade game with an amazing legacy mode.

        Almost all of the crazy glitches and bugs that people report in Live 10 are rarely or never seen when I play the game. Once DNA got straightened out I don't think there is anything remotely close to a 'gamekiller' in this game.

        People brought up the MVP Baseball comparison and I think it's a good one, Live '10 is pretty similar to MVP '04 in terms of progress and context. Hopefully Live '11 will rival MVP '05.

        Overall, my final thoughts are that the game is a GIGANTIC improvement over Live 09 in almost every way, it just took 2+ months for the game to reach that status. October and November were a mess. DNA was a disaster, the CPU's offense sucked on so many levels and roster updates were uninspired (still are for the most part). Once EA got all their ducks in a row though Live 10 became a heckuva little game, it's just a shame that they lost so many gamers in that 6-8 week span after release. Live 11 should continue to improve and is my most anticipated game of 2010.
        Last edited by ehh; 01-04-2010, 03:20 PM.
        "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

        "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

        Comment

        • ataman5
          MVP
          • Jun 2007
          • 2620

          #34
          Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

          Originally posted by Chief00
          I'm not disagreeing with you. Live does some things very well. The physics engine is much more up to date and how players animate. The animations are better in 2k, but the player models are much more organic in live. That said there are still things wrong with it. It hasn't progressed enough where they have realistic tendencies and player movement. The steals and interceptions and the way players move without the ball and set up and animate is not up to par. I'm not saying it's bad. It's just not doing what realistic players do. Yes some of the surface stuff is good and sig shots, but its more whats going on underneath. 2k the way players move is more free form where EA has this rubberband logic. Player movement off the ball also isnt nearly as good. I'm not saying it doesnt have potential, but right now this plays way too much like an arcade game. Players and teams still don't differentiate themselves enough.
          It's obvious that your realistic thinking based on realistic visuals,

          As i've said some other forums that, maybe Live 10 doesn't look realistic for you but it plays realistic on the other hand you can say wouw this looks like a real game for 2k but it doesn't play like that at all, see.

          That visuals be seen realistic doesn't make it sim, how the game plays in its core makes it arcade or sim.

          Originally posted by ehh
          Despite all the issues with the game it is my basketball game of choice this winter. I sold 2K10 after owning it for less than two weeks, that game just isn't for me. This is the first NBA game since 2007 that I played past New Year's.

          The thing that's really surprised me is that Live's gameplay has practically killed CH2K8 for me. I can barely play 2K8 because it's so "un-sim" by comparison especially when it comes to basketball strategy. Still the deepest sports game ever made and incredibly fun but Live is much more realistic. At this point 2K8 is essentially a fun arcade game with an amazing legacy mode.

          Almost all of the crazy glitches and bugs that people report in Live 10 are rarely or never seen when I play the game. Once DNA got straightened out I don't think there is anything remotely close to a 'gamekiller' in this game.

          People brought up the MVP Baseball comparison and I think it's a good one, Live '10 is pretty similar to MVP '04 in terms of progress and context. Hopefully Live '11 will rival MVP '05.

          Overall, my final thoughts are that the game is a GIGANTIC improvement over Live 09 in almost every way, it just took 2+ months for the game to reach that status. October and November were a mess. DNA was a disaster, the CPU's offense sucked on so many levels and roster updates were uninspired (still are for the most part). Once EA got all their ducks in a row though Live 10 became a heckuva little game, it's just a shame that they lost so many gamers in that 6-8 week span after release. Live 11 should continue to improve and is my most anticipated game of 2010.
          ^^ I couldn't sum it up better and aggree more, thanks for putting my thoughts on words ehh.
          Last edited by ataman5; 01-04-2010, 03:30 PM.

          Comment

          • Chief00
            Banned
            • Jan 2010
            • 9

            #35
            Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

            Originally posted by ataman5
            It's obvious that your realistic thinking based on realistic visuals,

            As i've said some other forums that, maybe Live 10 doesn't look realistic for you but it plays realistic on the other hand you can say wouw this looks like a real game for 2k but it doesn't play like that at all, see.

            That visuals be seen realistic doesn't make it sim, how the game plays in its core makes it arcade or sim.
            I disagree with you. Some things live does better, but the tendencies are not there yet. No I'm not basing off visuals. Where did i say that? I think i said the player tendencies and gave examples of off the ball movement and how players set up. Watch how the cpu moves off the ball in both games sometime and how players set up the offense etc... Lives tendencies are not on par. It also has issues with rubberband logic and players and teams not differentiating themselves. There are reasons why live struggles with this. They havent fixed it yet. Watch the AI sometime. That's not to say 2k is perfect. It has its own issues. It still has pitp issues, lead pass and players not getting open in the halfcourt for jumpshots. Where live excels is in it's control and organic feel. 2k feels clunky in comparison unless you get used to it, there is a lot more depth to the gameplay. The AI does alot more things in 2k.
            Last edited by Chief00; 01-04-2010, 03:39 PM.

            Comment

            • Behindshadows
              CEO - BSG Network
              • Nov 2004
              • 8055

              #36
              Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

              Originally posted by ehh
              Despite all the issues with the game it is my basketball game of choice this winter. I sold 2K10 after owning it for less than two weeks, that game just isn't for me. This is the first NBA game since 2007 that I played past New Year's.

              The thing that's really surprised me is that Live's gameplay has practically killed CH2K8 for me. I can barely play 2K8 because it's so "un-sim" by comparison especially when it comes to basketball strategy. Still the deepest sports game ever made and incredibly fun but Live is much more realistic. At this point 2K8 is essentially a fun arcade game with an amazing legacy mode.

              Almost all of the crazy glitches and bugs that people report in Live 10 are rarely or never seen when I play the game. Once DNA got straightened out I don't think there is anything remotely close to a 'gamekiller' in this game.

              People brought up the MVP Baseball comparison and I think it's a good one, Live '10 is pretty similar to MVP '04 in terms of progress and context. Hopefully Live '11 will rival MVP '05.

              Overall, my final thoughts are that the game is a GIGANTIC improvement over Live 09 in almost every way, it just took 2+ months for the game to reach that status. October and November were a mess. DNA was a disaster, the CPU's offense sucked on so many levels and roster updates were uninspired (still are for the most part). Once EA got all their ducks in a row though Live 10 became a heckuva little game, it's just a shame that they lost so many gamers in that 6-8 week span after release. Live 11 should continue to improve and is my most anticipated game of 2010.
              I agree with you my friend. Live 10 is more realistic and it feels like sim basketball. Even on default settings since the patch.

              Great post!!!

              Comment

              • Court_vision
                Banned
                • Oct 2002
                • 8290

                #37
                Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

                Originally posted by edubbs
                Even though Live09 had alot of issues, I played that game soo much and enjoyed it. It was my game of choice last year. The potential was soo obvious while playing 09, it kept me coming back.

                This year my expectations were through the roof and leading up to release the Devs., were confirming pretty much all of my concerns with 09 would be addressed.

                After 2 patches I really feel like the game will not get there for another year or two if ever IMO. I only play against the CPU so, the AI is my main concern with this franchise. I have no desire to play human vs. human games.

                For the following issues to be promised and left out, was really dissapointing.

                -The transition game ie; fasbreaks......is the worst i've seen. And this has been the case for 2 years now, for this to go pretty much untouched was insulting IMO.

                -Rebounding and lack of 'physical feel' from the Bigs down low

                -The scripted playsets that the AI runs, are poorly executed and VERY repetitive. Don't get me wrong, Live's playcalling 'system' is the best ever.

                However, the AI often does not recognise a defender standing in the passing lane OR a wide open teammate on the floor when executing these sets. I can see a particular play coming an jump in the passing lane, and the AI does not try to find another option.

                This is a HUGE flaw for Human vs. CPU players like me. You essentially have to dumb down the way you play, to enjoy the game at times.

                -I'm not seeing all of the 'authenic playsets' that the devs. were promoting before release. I don't see playsets with Lebron, Dwade, Brandon Roy, etc. bring the ball up court intiating the offense enough, like we were promised.

                And why are 90% of the team's halfcourt sets intiated from the same spot on the floor?

                All plays start from Either the left perimeter angle or right perimeter angle of the floor. There are very few plays that intiate from the top of the key in this game for some reason.

                I could go on about the AI issues but, I won't. I still play the game maybe 2 times a week but, anything more than that I start seeing things from 09, that drove me crazy start popping up too often.

                My final thoughts are simple:

                I'm lowering my expectations for Live11.

                And I REALLY think this franchise is in trouble, the sales numbers don't lie.

                As much as I like the 'potential' that this game has, the 'other game' is running away with this genre by a landslide.

                The average consumer is not like basketball people who visit these boards, who are willing to wait for this franchise to get back on it's feet.

                Before playing Live 09, I hadn't purchased Live since 06. Guys who have purchase Live for the past 5 years say they STILL see issues dating back to several years ago.

                Lingering gameplay/AI issues from years past are just a common theme for this franchise, and that's the most frustrating thing about playing this game.

                Great post...and a lot of the issues you raise were supposed to be fixed after 09.

                I think the guys who played a lot of LIVE 09 like you, Dre, Czar etc...probably went through the whole "wow, this has so much potential" stage during LIVE 09. I know I certainly did.

                Guys who are new to LIVE 10 originally went through that stage and then dropped off in their masses.

                I've got to disagree re playsets. I see LBJ initiating the Cavs offense a lot. DNA really has improved it since release a lot IMO.

                LIVE 11 will be really interesting as it's the first time for a long time that the expectations will be that the game will be very good / complete. No more "hey, it's on track". LIVE 11 will be the time to say "hey, it's arrived...".

                As I said...the best bits of this game are great. It's a whole level above anything we've seen before from any game IMO.

                The best bits of this game are the kind of stuff I'd imagined when the "next gen" basketball games first came out.

                If EA can get the rest of the game to match the best bits...they are going to have a hell of a game on their hands.

                People will switch if they manage to do that IMO. Like people have switched from PES to FIFA. PES is still top class, but having an alternative is pretty cool also. Hopefully that's what will happen here also.

                The best bits of this game are so good....that's it's a shame the worst bits are so bad.

                Comment

                • Court_vision
                  Banned
                  • Oct 2002
                  • 8290

                  #38
                  Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

                  Originally posted by ehh
                  Overall, my final thoughts are that the game is a GIGANTIC improvement over Live 09 in almost every way, it just took 2+ months for the game to reach that status. October and November were a mess. DNA was a disaster, the CPU's offense sucked on so many levels and roster updates were uninspired (still are for the most part). Once EA got all their ducks in a row though Live 10 became a heckuva little game, it's just a shame that they lost so many gamers in that 6-8 week span after release. Live 11 should continue to improve and is my most anticipated game of 2010.
                  Great post also.

                  Agreed totally that the game is a hell of lot better now than it was 6-8 weeks ago. I remember playing the LAKERS when the DNA first came in and it was basically the D-Fish show. Isod and driving into three defenders non stop.

                  I played them the other day and they ran a great offense...passing it around, Kobe ISOd, Lamar taking pull up Js, Gasol in the paint. Massive imrpovement.

                  The game now is definitely worth playing. I am playing the odd Suns game in Dynamic Season and enjoying it.

                  I agree also re College Hoops being outdated.

                  Comment

                  • 23
                    yellow
                    • Sep 2002
                    • 66469

                    #39
                    Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

                    I have far too many thoughts to write all of them out..good post edubbs btw

                    Before I go on, please stop talking about 2k in this thread. This is not a comparison or a who's better thread... from here on out those kinds of posts will be deleted, period

                    This is a legit thread and does not deserve to be trampled with more of that

                    Comment

                    • Court_vision
                      Banned
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 8290

                      #40
                      Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

                      Originally posted by carnalnirvava

                      another poster said the reb game has no life no struggle, how can it when KG has an off box out rating of 55 or a sink & swim of 44 and a guy like noah with garbage ratings on the glass RAISE THESE and there are more animations to trigger stuff like reb strenght you see guys snatching boards down with authority...

                      i feel they leave stuff so low, so the animations trigger fewer times so the game can appear fresh over a longer period.... i dont know i just cant grasp their logic

                      i'm looking at bosh as i type and its amazing he is no different than someone like brook lopez, someone needs to really go in sort out player differences WAY better. when you look at bosh he is ineffective for the cpu beyond 10feet away because of these sloppy ratings so they just shoot the jumper every time. a human will grind their way to a better shot but the cpu calculates and pulls up 90% of the time

                      Great post...and so true.

                      Some of the ratings are so bad that you've got to presume the person who does them simply hasn't watched any NBA basketball.

                      Last time I checked, Dwight Howard's strength rating was around 62 or something and lower than Gortat.

                      At one stage Andrew Bynnum's 3 point rating was higher than Lamar Odom's. Who could honestly say that was true

                      All Memphis players having the same mid range rating for ages...

                      And a lot more.

                      It really looks like no one bothers to even check half the ratings. Guys like Playmakers and Tomba, who check them, have openly said that some players haven't had any ratings changes for several seasons.

                      That kind of stuff just isn't good enough. How hard would it be to hire someone to do the ratings?

                      Marcus seemed like he was finally getting his head around it all and re-rating guys...but then they pulled him off the game and apparently he's working on NBA Jam now. LOL.

                      The edited rosters from guys like PM and Tomba are always better...but,personally, I can't use them as you have to use the official rosters for Dynamic Season and rewind games.

                      Get someone to go through all the ratings...can't be that hard.

                      Comment

                      • Stumbleweed
                        Livin' the dream
                        • Oct 2006
                        • 6279

                        #41
                        Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

                        Haven't played the AI at all really recently, I've just been playing randoms and friends online. That said, here are my feelings:

                        It's the most "sim" game this year in that it forces you to some something other than isolate and drive into the paint to have any modicum of success. At no point does it seem easy to drive from the 3PT line into the paint for a dunk/layup (even with a mismatch, which I think can be refined but is still correct for the most part), and players who play to their team/players strengths and run a realistically-paced game are rewarded. This to me is the essence of simluation basketball and Live captures this very well (almost too well, which I'll get into later).

                        The lack of animations and polish do a lot to detract from the mostly-sound fundamentals of the game. The overall package (presentation, modes, features, gameplay) isn't nearly what is offered by the other game, but the core gameplay and the sim elements mentioned earlier are enough to make it my preferred game at this point in the season, especially against online users (both randoms and friends). Getting a sim game against a human opponent in Live 10 is the best basketball videogame experience I've ever had bar-none, and the lack of animations and other issues that plague the game on a basic level don't really bother me because the whole thing is so damn fun against someone else.

                        However, after playing quite a bit online lately, the limitations/issues with DNA have become apparent. Not only are the ratings not really being updated in any real or consistent way (don't tell me they are when players have had the same nonsensical amd wrong ratings for 3 years now), but the hot/cold streaks and other information appear to be too strongly affecting play. It's to the point that if a shooter is cold, they WILL NOT make a shot -- it doesn't matter how wide open it is or how perfect the release is, it doesn't matter if it's in their normal "hot spot" -- they simply will be useless until they start making some shots IRL and the DNA/streaks are updated by EA.

                        While I appreciate the basic premise here, in practice, it makes much of the game pre-determined in a very real sense -- i.e. if I'm the Thunder and notice that Jeff Green is mired in a horrible cold slump (he is!), he won't make anything (even wide open layups are a gamble now post-patch #2 due to the missed dunk/layups), and he'll eventually be worked out of the offense entirely in favor of a hotter player. That's all well and good, but it takes a large element of free agency out of the hands of the player to break out of or enter a slump... In reality, guys who are on a cold streak entering a game are more likely than an average player to hit some shots just due to the law of averages -- and players who are on a cold streak but make a concerted effort to get to the hoop or to only take good shots will generally work their way out of it in the span of a single game or even a single quarter. This is not represented AT ALL in Live due to the heavy level of determinism in the game. On the flipside of this is the main problem that is talked about ad nauseam here, the unstoppable craziness from 3PT land with certain guys -- both are due to the hot streaks and DNA and the fact that bad shots (especially continued over the course of a game) do not contribute to a "cooling" of the player or a reduction in shot success. It's determinism either way, and that takes a lot of the basic fun out of the game because the unpredictability is reduced greatly, especially when playing the AI, which can already get predictible.

                        And yeah, the full-court game is better post-patches, but it still pales in comparison to the other game. The sense of speed isn't there really and the alley-oops are just TERRIBLE (seriously, how do you throw these things?... seems like every time I have a real chance it throws a lob to a guy behind the 3PT line) -- Freestyle Passing is a great innovation but it's still essentially directional passing and has god awful logic applied to it in terms of who the ball goes to, and that affects the breaks and the quick-passing game in general in a very nagative way. Combine that with the icon passing issues/delay and the somewhat complicated/easy to screw up off-ball control scheme (release LT too early and you switch, etc.) and the passing can be extremely frustrating, especially when you're trying to do something quickly on the break. Lots of controller-throwing moments when you accidentally send the ball into the backcourt after using Freestyle Passing to point at an open shooter on the wing.

                        But hey, at least I can GET ONLINE and actually play someone without having to try 20 times and resetting my console after it inevitably freezes... kudos to EA for their rock-steady servers.
                        Last edited by Stumbleweed; 01-04-2010, 06:55 PM.
                        Send your Midnight Release weirdo pics/videos to my new website: http://www.peopleofmidnightreleases.com!

                        Comment

                        • Chief00
                          Banned
                          • Jan 2010
                          • 9

                          #42
                          Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

                          I think you are confusing realism and sound AI with rubberband logic. I know some of you guys think this game is realistic but watch the AI sometime. The reason you can't get to the hoop is smoke and mirrors and doesnt replicate real basketball. Have you ever noticed that if you give the cpu a clear lane to the hoop they will drive into a crowd and do that same animation where they hang in the air and throw up a brick? It's because the AI is extremely scripted to react a certain way. Players dont differentiate themselves enough and have a mind of their own and it gets very repetitive after a while once you figure out what hte AI is doing. You rarely see the AI branch and do anything unpredictable. Passing out the post etc is all scripted and even nonexistant in a lot of ways.

                          The same goes for AI offense and what was already said how the cpu sets up the offense. You can basically stand there and time your defense the AI is so predictable.
                          Last edited by Chief00; 01-04-2010, 10:20 PM.

                          Comment

                          • cherone21
                            Rookie
                            • Aug 2008
                            • 166

                            #43
                            Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

                            Love it. Cant stop playing it. Best basketball game.

                            Comment

                            • sportyguyfl31
                              MVP
                              • Nov 2005
                              • 4745

                              #44
                              Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

                              Originally posted by Stumbleweed
                              Haven't played the AI at all really recently, I've just been playing randoms and friends online. That said, here are my feelings:

                              It's the most "sim" game this year in that it forces you to some something other than isolate and drive into the paint to have any modicum of success. At no point does it seem easy to drive from the 3PT line into the paint for a dunk/layup (even with a mismatch, which I think can be refined but is still correct for the most part), and players who play to their team/players strengths and run a realistically-paced game are rewarded. This to me is the essence of simluation basketball and Live captures this very well (almost too well, which I'll get into later).

                              The lack of animations and polish do a lot to detract from the mostly-sound fundamentals of the game. The overall package (presentation, modes, features, gameplay) isn't nearly what is offered by the other game, but the core gameplay and the sim elements mentioned earlier are enough to make it my preferred game at this point in the season, especially against online users (both randoms and friends). Getting a sim game against a human opponent in Live 10 is the best basketball videogame experience I've ever had bar-none, and the lack of animations and other issues that plague the game on a basic level don't really bother me because the whole thing is so damn fun against someone else.

                              However, after playing quite a bit online lately, the limitations/issues with DNA have become apparent. Not only are the ratings not really being updated in any real or consistent way (don't tell me they are when players have had the same nonsensical amd wrong ratings for 3 years now), but the hot/cold streaks and other information appear to be too strongly affecting play. It's to the point that if a shooter is cold, they WILL NOT make a shot -- it doesn't matter how wide open it is or how perfect the release is, it doesn't matter if it's in their normal "hot spot" -- they simply will be useless until they start making some shots IRL and the DNA/streaks are updated by EA.

                              While I appreciate the basic premise here, in practice, it makes much of the game pre-determined in a very real sense -- i.e. if I'm the Thunder and notice that Jeff Green is mired in a horrible cold slump (he is!), he won't make anything (even wide open layups are a gamble now post-patch #2 due to the missed dunk/layups), and he'll eventually be worked out of the offense entirely in favor of a hotter player. That's all well and good, but it takes a large element of free agency out of the hands of the player to break out of or enter a slump... In reality, guys who are on a cold streak entering a game are more likely than an average player to hit some shots just due to the law of averages -- and players who are on a cold streak but make a concerted effort to get to the hoop or to only take good shots will generally work their way out of it in the span of a single game or even a single quarter. This is not represented AT ALL in Live due to the heavy level of determinism in the game. On the flipside of this is the main problem that is talked about ad nauseam here, the unstoppable craziness from 3PT land with certain guys -- both are due to the hot streaks and DNA and the fact that bad shots (especially continued over the course of a game) do not contribute to a "cooling" of the player or a reduction in shot success. It's determinism either way, and that takes a lot of the basic fun out of the game because the unpredictability is reduced greatly, especially when playing the AI, which can already get predictible.

                              And yeah, the full-court game is better post-patches, but it still pales in comparison to the other game. The sense of speed isn't there really and the alley-oops are just TERRIBLE (seriously, how do you throw these things?... seems like every time I have a real chance it throws a lob to a guy behind the 3PT line) -- Freestyle Passing is a great innovation but it's still essentially directional passing and has god awful logic applied to it in terms of who the ball goes to, and that affects the breaks and the quick-passing game in general in a very nagative way. Combine that with the icon passing issues/delay and the somewhat complicated/easy to screw up off-ball control scheme (release LT too early and you switch, etc.) and the passing can be extremely frustrating, especially when you're trying to do something quickly on the break. Lots of controller-throwing moments when you accidentally send the ball into the backcourt after using Freestyle Passing to point at an open shooter on the wing.

                              But hey, at least I can GET ONLINE and actually play someone without having to try 20 times and resetting my console after it inevitably freezes... kudos to EA for their rock-steady servers.

                              The parts in bold is what I agree with the most. Head to head, online, this game cannot be touched, when played vs someone with grey matter.

                              Its also the reason why they HAVE to make a greater commitment to givign us deep online league functionality.


                              Ive praised the virtues of DNA as much as anyone, and it is certainly a wonderful thing.

                              I cant see myself playing a game anymore without it.

                              There are times though, when the game is a slave to the DNA.

                              Using the Lakers in Dynamic Season Games, I am forced to load up the playbook for Kobe which post him up and have him inititating pick and rolls and iso in order to be able to score with him.

                              While it is a great concept that you need to play to a guy's real life strengths...this is still Kobe Bryant, afterall. ..can I please make an uncontested mid range J with him?

                              On the flip side, I can defend some CPU players pretty easily, because going by the DNA, I simply know that there are shots the player wont take.

                              The DNA hotstreaks also make certain teams pretty much unbeatable (Cleveland). A DNA Hot streak from Anderson Varejo, should not mean that Anderson Varejo starts hauling down double doubles. What it should do, is make Varejo does what he does naturally, at a more intense clip.

                              There needs to be more of balance between DNA and what a player can do. Sample size needs to matter also. There's no difference between a 40% 3 point shooter who has shot 10 3's all season, vs one who takes 4 3's a game. The DNA simply recognizes that he is a 40% 3 point shooter right now, and that is that.

                              Comment

                              • bigeastbumrush
                                My Momma's Son
                                • Feb 2003
                                • 19245

                                #45
                                Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

                                Hate to say this, but, based on Live 10, Live 11 does not warrant a purchase for me.

                                I think the foundation is there.

                                I just don't want to "test" out a retail version of Live 11 for them to get it right or close to being right.

                                As much as I thought I would like Dynamic Season, it was a horrible experience for me. Maybe it was the menus or presentation, but it just didn't do it for me.

                                They really had me going with all of the pre-release vids and info, which I think was great.

                                But after awhile, I just couldn't get into it.

                                I do think it's a good game. And I can't throw my $60 to the competition because I hate their controls.

                                It's just I think I need a break from Live and possibly all sports gaming next year. I may pick up a soccer game as I hear it's incredible.

                                But basketball and football? No thanks.

                                Call me when they get it right.

                                Comment

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