Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

[carnalnirvana]

Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

the dna is definately too strict BUT i wonder how can the game express offensive awareness, i'll use myself as an example...

when i play LA i focus on kobe gasol etc and the supporting cast can get any shot because of that focus, BUT i will be the first person to complain that i want kobe dropping 40

now a major complaint is that the cpu cant recognise open shots, if they did artest would take 20+ 3pt shots a game, fisher would get a 18fter all game should they take them....

ALSO

the bigs under the basket have too much off awareness they grab a board and go back up, we all complain that they should reset and look for a pass out...

how can off awareness be expressed in a manner to keep the game fluid but let the main guys dominate and with something like dna is it possible for a role player to drop 30 on any given night?????

how can this game recognise that its ok for a role player to score on the break but in the set offense kobe should the focal point ?????

[bjones16]

Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

Even though Live09 had alot of issues, I played that game soo much and enjoyed it. It was my game of choice last year. The potential was soo obvious while playing 09, it kept me coming back.

This year my expectations were through the roof and leading up to release the Devs., were confirming pretty much all of my concerns with 09 would be addressed.

After 2 patches I really feel like the game will not get there for another year or two if ever IMO. I only play against the CPU so, the AI is my main concern with this franchise. I have no desire to play human vs. human games.

For the following issues to be promised and left out, was really dissapointing.

-The transition game ie; fasbreaks......is the worst i've seen. And this has been the case for 2 years now, for this to go pretty much untouched was insulting IMO.

-Rebounding and lack of 'physical feel' from the Bigs down low

-The scripted playsets that the AI runs, are poorly executed and VERY repetitive. Don't get me wrong, Live's playcalling 'system' is the best ever.

However, the AI often does not recognise a defender standing in the passing lane OR a wide open teammate on the floor when executing these sets. I can see a particular play coming an jump in the passing lane, and the AI does not try to find another option.

This is a HUGE flaw for Human vs. CPU players like me. You essentially have to dumb down the way you play, to enjoy the game at times.

-I'm not seeing all of the 'authenic playsets' that the devs. were promoting before release. I don't see playsets with Lebron, Dwade, Brandon Roy, etc. bring the ball up court intiating the offense enough, like we were promised.

And why are 90% of the team's halfcourt sets intiated from the same spot on the floor?

All plays start from Either the left perimeter angle or right perimeter angle of the floor. There are very few plays that intiate from the top of the key in this game for some reason.

I could go on about the AI issues but, I won't. I still play the game maybe 2 times a week but, anything more than that I start seeing things from 09, that drove me crazy start popping up too often.

My final thoughts are simple:

I'm lowering my expectations for Live11.

And I REALLY think this franchise is in trouble, the sales numbers don't lie.

As much as I like the 'potential' that this game has, the 'other game' is running away with this genre by a landslide.

The average consumer is not like basketball people who visit these boards, who are willing to wait for this franchise to get back on it's feet.

Before playing Live 09, I hadn't purchased Live since 06. Guys who have purchase Live for the past 5 years say they STILL see issues dating back to several years ago.

Lingering gameplay/AI issues from years past are just a common theme for this franchise, and that's the most frustrating thing about playing this game.

I agree totally with you edubbs. With Live 09 my expectations were not that high but I felt like the game was good. Not great but had a ton of potential.

This year I liked the game soo much for about a week. Then I realized Live 10 had more bugs than 09. Major problems that 09 had still exist in 10. Yes 10 has more signature style, improved ball handling and improved graphics and players move more fluid but to say 10 is better than 09 in every way is crazy.

10's transition game is terrible. Transition defense is sometimes still a problem where my defender stops and the offense keeps running for an open dunk. Animations are terrible for yet another year. Blocking and rebounding is not good again. If I see that rebounding animation where a player taps it to himself and my player is standing RIGHT next to him on the side he tapped it too! Im gonna scream! Defense has gotten worse! Live has to slow down player movement on the offensive side of the ball and get rid of the forcefield because the defense just cant keep up! And lastly fatigue has to be implemented somehow to drastically change gameplay.

All in all....live will be a rental for me just like the other game. Funny that what the other game does well Live does well and vice versa. Only if I could combine both games and Give live animations or give the other game lives's player movement and dribbling.

[blues rocker]

Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

However, after playing quite a bit online lately, the limitations/issues with DNA have become apparent. Not only are the ratings not really being updated in any real or consistent way (don't tell me they are when players have had the same nonsensical amd wrong ratings for 3 years now), but the hot/cold streaks and other information appear to be too strongly affecting play. It's to the point that if a shooter is cold, they WILL NOT make a shot -- it doesn't matter how wide open it is or how perfect the release is, it doesn't matter if it's in their normal "hot spot" -- they simply will be useless until they start making some shots IRL and the DNA/streaks are updated by EA.

While I appreciate the basic premise here, in practice, it makes much of the game pre-determined in a very real sense -- i.e. if I'm the Thunder and notice that Jeff Green is mired in a horrible cold slump (he is!), he won't make anything (even wide open layups are a gamble now post-patch #2 due to the missed dunk/layups), and he'll eventually be worked out of the offense entirely in favor of a hotter player. That's all well and good, but it takes a large element of free agency out of the hands of the player to break out of or enter a slump... In reality, guys who are on a cold streak entering a game are more likely than an average player to hit some shots just due to the law of averages -- and players who are on a cold streak but make a concerted effort to get to the hoop or to only take good shots will generally work their way out of it in the span of a single game or even a single quarter. This is not represented AT ALL in Live due to the heavy level of determinism in the game. On the flipside of this is the main problem that is talked about ad nauseam here, the unstoppable craziness from 3PT land with certain guys -- both are due to the hot streaks and DNA and the fact that bad shots (especially continued over the course of a game) do not contribute to a "cooling" of the player or a reduction in shot success. It's determinism either way, and that takes a lot of the basic fun out of the game because the unpredictability is reduced greatly, especially when playing the AI, which can already get predictible.

Yep...it's ridiculous how certain players in this game are practically super human and can score at will....for these certain players it's impossible to stop them even when smothering them on defense (lebron and kobe in the paint, mo williams from 3)...I guess this is the result of DNA ratings being too high or something - either way it's B.S. because online people just jack up terrible shots with these "super human" players all game long, and they actually succeed by using these cheesy repetitive shots. There's no incentive for these cheesers to pass the ball and run plays when they can just take a super human player and jack up bad shots all game long. It's like you said - some players will make almost every shot no matter how difficult, and some players will miss almost every shot no matter how open they are (even if they are a good shooter in real life) - I guess this is the result of hot streaks and cold streaks being too powerful and making players either too unstoppable or too weak...shot success should be determined by if a player is open and if that player is a "known" good shooter...good shooters shouldn't miss wide open shots just because they're on a cold streak in real life....and a player shouldn't make every shot just because he's on a hot streak in real life...this just encourages people to pick the team with the "hottest" player and jack up shots with that one player all game.

[dorismary]

Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

To OP you pretty much said it all but hopefully next year they will address all of that plus add TONS of presentation .
I really liked 09 and thought 10 would be just a fine tuned version of that well either way its still going in the right direct I hope ? I say this do to how EA might not put a bunch of $$$ behind a game that didnt make alot

[Pared]

Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

Great post edubbs. Great, great post.

[babythug23]

Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

Like Live better for the 1st couple months but now been playing 2k. Lack of moves really hurts the game. I still like the game its still fun

[Court_vision]

Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

Great post edubbs. Great, great post.

Agreed. He pretty much nailed everything that's wrong with the game and series.

Hopefully someone like Beluba reads it.

As edubbs says, I do think expectations will be lower for LIVE 11. Seeing so many things like the transition game / open court AI repeatedly not fixed......... kind of suggests it "can't" be fixed. CPU players running out of bounds etc. Rebounding having no physicality etc...it's been like that for years now. I guess it just isn't possible to get it right in this game.

Beluba was able to put things into Inside Drive and 2K that are woeful or simply not done in this game........so you've got to think it's the engine.

Personally, I am really enjoying one off games and I'll always end up buying this game simply for the controls + the court spacing. I can't see the game being close to "complete" though for a long time. FIFA has made the leap much quicker, but I guess that's due to resources. As we've said before, the FIFA market is so much bigger that the game obviously gets a tonne more resources thrown at it. The LIVE team seems to be very small by comparison.

[wsu_gb23]

Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

As long as MIke Wang (Beluba) is in charge of this game it will be sucessful. LIVE 10 was his first full year with the series and it was the first LIVE game I've bought since last-gen. Mike Wang will only make this game better as he knows what good basketball looks like.

I am really enjoying LIVE 10.

[Pared]

Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

Oh no, here we go again with the engine talk... lol.

I doubt Beluba will be able to fix any of the major issues on Live next year. Way too much to address with seemingly less resources. But of course someone will post how he will touch water and make wine.

EDIT: Almost as if on cue. LOL

[navyboy09]

Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

I like that Live has REAL body contact in the paint. If you step in front of a guy in the paint, he won't be getting a dunk or a layup - there will be a collision. I love this about Live.

This is what i HATE about live, yes its good that you cant dunk everytime when you drive into the lane but in the nba people do get dunked on sometimes and a small guard will never stop someone right in there tracks when they are attacking the basket but in live it happens all the time and too many times the game force you into a contact animation.

[BiggD]

Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

This is what i HATE about live, yes its good that you cant dunk everytime when you drive into the lane but in the nba people do get dunked on sometimes and a small guard will never stop someone right in there tracks when they are attacking the basket but in live it happens all the time and too many times the game force you into a contact animation.

I agree.. there is too much emphasis on the body contact. Its almost as if there is someone within 2 feet of your guy you can't attempt a dunk. Posterized dunks happen all the time in the NBA

[DJ]

Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

I've gone back to trying to enjoy games just purely based on "fun factor" and try and take the approach of a casual gamer, as opposed to where I was spending my time looking for every single flaw in whatever game it was I was playing.

I LOVED Live 10 when it first dropped. It was the only game I played for a while. The 1st patch did affect some things negatively but I still managed to enjoy the game, although the issues were starting to affect my enjoyment somewhat. But, the 2nd patch brought the game back for me to where it was pre-patch and I'm really loving the game again.

Dynamic Season is a blast and the DNA updates are much better now than they were at the beginning of the season.

My suggestion for Live 11 would be to just wait until December for Dynamic Season to begin. Thereby, you give the developers another month to compile real-life stats and work on the DNA so that when the mode is unlocked, the user won't have to go through the struggles that we went through in October and November with Live 10.

[blues rocker]

Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

I agree.. there is too much emphasis on the body contact. Its almost as if there is someone within 2 feet of your guy you can't attempt a dunk. Posterized dunks happen all the time in the NBA

Posterized dunks are not that common in real life. If you could just run into the paint and jump over defenders to dunk on every possession it would be NBA Jam. In real life, if there is a defender standing directly in his path, kobe cannot just jump over him or jump into the defender and get off a clean dunk - you must have a skewed view of physics. Sorry, but making dunks easier would not improve this game. I love that it's hard to dunk in Live and you actually have to have an open lane to get a dunk - if you want to dunk on every possession and just jump over defenders, play NBA Jam.

[bjones16]

Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

Posterized dunks are not that common in real life. If you could just run into the paint and jump over defenders to dunk on every possession it would be NBA Jam. In real life, if there is a defebder standing directly in his path, kobe cannot just jump over him or jump into the defender and get off a clean dunk - you must have a skewed view of physics. Sorry, but making dunks easier would not improve this game. I love that it's hard to dunk in Live and you actually have to have an open lane to get a dunk - if you want to dunk on every possession and just jump over defenders, play NBA Jam.

Honestly whats not realistic is when Shaq is dunking and Im Mike Conley and i stand under the rim ad Shaq does some weird animation and misses the lay up because Conley was there. I understand if its G against G or pf against pf but If bosh is trying to dunk on tj ford and cant.....Thats unrealistic!! Period.

Ea has to learn that if something is unrealistic you have to take it out of the game. Too many times have a seen Kobe get his dunks blocked by guards. His dunks almost never get blocked but they do in Live. How many times will I see the opposing C come across my guards body and steal the ball?? 1st thats a foul....but that would NEVER happen. C's don't have the agility to do something like that.

Like a few posters above said.....I think its the engine and I dont think live will ever change. Players have been moving out of bounds for years. Animations have sucked for years. Everything that i hated about live 09 is still in 10 excluding dribbling and a few other things. Only if the other game could get dribbling together.

[ai2k2]

Re: Your final thoughts on LIVE 10?

In my opinion Live 10 is a great foundation for Basketball greatness. That's where it ends.