should an early release result in a short or long shot?

[thomonkey]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

I voted for early release goes long, late release goes short.

But aside from that I have a concern about this shooting system. With this shooting scheme will hanging jumpers (late release) or quick buzzer beaters (early release) always go long or short? Because this could limit the gameplay to an extent. There are many plays where Kobe, for example, hangs in the air to get his shot off over a taller defender. Or when Derek Fisher shot that 0.6 second buzzer beater against the Spurs. It seems like with this system, these shots would be possible, because the game will only trigger a good shot with releases in the "sweet spot".

I can understand and really like the lining up the shot where it will go left or right, but the release point is a little shaky.

if you watch the developer shooting video at around 1:25 the shot goes up in about .4 seconds and goes in so you can definitely make a shot with only .4 seconds (fisher shot was actually .4 seconds :P). the things that make buzzer beaters so hard in 2k and live are the shooting animations that take all day and also the lack of catch and shoot animations. you have to catch the inbound pass, gather and then shoot. as long as the shooting animations are normal speed and they have catch and shoot animations, i dont think quick shots will be too much of a problem. late release is kind of a problem though. i think that a possible solution may be to have the person pull and hold the left trigger while in the air during a shot to make the sweet spot later which will enable you to hang. so basically if you want to hang while in the air pull the left trigger, hold it, and then release the right stick at the new sweet spot. this will allow you to hang and still get off a good shot. so just to be more thorough, each shot will have 2 sweet spots, but you can only use the second one (the longer one) if you press and hold the Left trigger in the air.

[rEAnimator]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

if you watch the developer shooting video at around 1:25 the shot goes up in about .4 seconds and goes in so you can definitely make a shot with only .4 seconds (fisher shot was actually .4 seconds :P). the things that make buzzer beaters so hard in 2k and live are the shooting animations that take all day and also the lack of catch and shoot animations. you have to catch the inbound pass, gather and then shoot. as long as the shooting animations are normal speed and they have catch and shoot animations, i dont think quick shots will be too much of a problem. late release is kind of a problem though. i think that a possible solution may be to have the person pull and hold the left trigger while in the air during a shot to make the sweet spot later which will enable you to hang. so basically if you want to hang while in the air pull the left trigger, hold it, and then release the right stick at the new sweet spot. this will allow you to hang and still get off a good shot. so just to be more thorough, each shot will have 2 sweet spots, but you can only use the second one (the longer one) if you press and hold the Left trigger in the air.

That's a really interesting idea. I'm curious though, is there ever a reason to hang other that to try and avoid a block with some sort of shot adjust? So would it be worth doing this if you didn't get an adjust to the left or right to go around a blocker?

I suppose if the defender got up early for the block, hanging could give you enough time to wait for him to come down. Or to create separation if you're doing a fade away?

What I'm getting at is why would you ever want to choose to use the late release timing? If you can give me compelling enough reasons that don't require risky/significant changes to the way it currently works, the argument to change things becomes easier.

Thanks for the ideas.

[thomonkey]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

That's a really interesting idea. I'm curious though, is there ever a reason to hang other that to try and avoid a block with some sort of shot adjust? So would it be worth doing this if you didn't get an adjust to the left or right to go around a blocker?

I suppose if the defender got up early for the block, hanging could give you enough time to wait for him to come down. Or to create separation if you're doing a fade away?

What I'm getting at is why would you ever want to choose to use the late release timing? If you can give me compelling enough reasons that don't require risky/significant changes to the way it currently works, the argument to change things becomes easier.

Thanks for the ideas.

honestly i think that for jump shots when people hang it is usually on a fade away to get a little more space. if you are jumping straight up for a shot and someone is guarding you, hanging is just going to get you stuffed worse. When fading away however sometimes you would release later because as you travel back you are moving away from you defender so the more time you are in the air the more space you are getting.

somebody in this thread posted this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o5O97GQSq0&feature=player_embedded

as you can see lebron is fading away from the basket and paul pierce is going to block the shot but lebron hangs in the air (also adjusts his shot back a bit) and is able to get the shot off. besides this scenario i really dont see a reason to hang.

to be honest i never really thought that any thing needed to be changed to the shooting mechanic for hanging jumpers because besides this one case there really is no need to hang on a jump shot. However, alot of people were mentioning it so i just through out an idea. The way you guys are handling hanging/adjusments on layups/dunks sounds perfect to me.

by the way, how are you guys doing? you guys haven't been on the boards as much so im sure you're very busy. no problem at all though, keep up the good work

[rEAnimator]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

honestly i think that for jump shots when people hang it is usually on a fade away to get a little more space. if you are jumping straight up for a shot and someone is guarding you, hanging is just going to get you stuffed worse. When fading away however sometimes you would release later because as you travel back you are moving away from you defender so the more time you are in the air the more space you are getting.

somebody in this thread posted this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o5O97GQSq0&feature=player_embedded

as you can see lebron is fading away from the basket and paul pierce is going to block the shot but lebron hangs in the air (also adjusts his shot back a bit) and is able to get the shot off. besides this scenario i really dont see a reason to hang.

to be honest i never really thought that any thing needed to be changed to the shooting mechanic for hanging jumpers because besides this one case there really is no need to hang on a jump shot. However, alot of people were mentioning it so i just through out an idea. The way you guys are handling hanging/adjusments on layups/dunks sounds perfect to me.

by the way, how are you guys doing? you guys haven't been on the boards as much so im sure you're very busy. no problem at all though, keep up the good work

I'm doing much better, thanks for asking

July first is Canada Day up here so I took a much needed two days off before the final push which is why I was quiet for a few days.

But I'm back, re-energized and excited to see how far we can take things before we have to start winding down and focusing on bugs.

[thomonkey]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

I'm doing much better, thanks for asking

July first is Canada Day up here so I took a much needed two days off before the final push which is why I was quiet for a few days.

But I'm back, re-energized and excited to see how far we can take things before we have to start winding down and focusing on bugs.

very nice! im in the USA so we had a three day weekend here back to work for me too. Too bad my job isn't making video games . That's a pretty awesome job

ok ttyl. sleepy time for me.

[©roke]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

I have another question. What happen if I press UP on the right stick before I receive the ball (after a pass, obviously). I hope its a catch and shoot.

[rEAnimator]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

I have another question. What happen if I press UP on the right stick before I receive the ball (after a pass, obviously). I hope its a catch and shoot.

I don't want to hijack this thread so please post any further questions like this in the appropriate "ask the devs" thread.

But...I just checked and this does not currently work. I agree that the way you describe it is how it should work, so I will follow up with the guys who own passing/receiving and shooting make sure we find a way to fix it.

[FreshPrince22]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

are people seriously debating this? step away from the computer and go pick up a basketball, for god's sake. thread starter has it right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o5O97GQSq0&feature=player_embedded

as for this, the key is in the double pump and particularly lebron's freakish arm strength. if he goes up without the pump, this shot is short

[thomonkey]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

are people seriously debating this? step away from the computer and go pick up a basketball, for god's sake. thread starter has it right

seriously. anybody that has shot a basketball in real life knows this. i understand that people usually think of power meters as the longer i hold it the farther it will go, but they already mentioned there is a learning curve for the moves, why can't shooting have a learning curve? Once people get used to the REALISTIC power meter im sure that they will not have a problem shooting, and shooting will actually be more intuitive since that is how you shoot in REAL LIFE.

[The Radness]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

What about for rebounding?

In real life, when you see someone hold the ball to long you go to the short side of the rim. I'm sure after playing Elite, I could get used to it, but it could be a valid argument, no?

[thomonkey]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

What about for rebounding?

In real life, when you see someone hold the ball to long you go to the short side of the rim. I'm sure after playing Elite, I could get used to it, but it could be a valid argument, no?

good point! there are so many reasons that early release goes long is better. hopefully they'll listen. and just to clarify my last post, with early release going long there will only be a learning curve for people who have never shot a basketball before. and since this is a sim basketball game and not an arcade game like nba jam im pretty sure most people playing elite will have shot a basketball in real life.

[MarvellousOne]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

Early release = Long shots it's pretty much like throwing with the wind in football, your ball will travel farther because it's traveling with momentum which equals more power in your shot

Late release = short shots is like throwing against the wind, your decreasing momentum from your jump which means you have to apply more arm strength to try and get the shot to travel as far as you want it.

[wormturd]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

Is the meter tied to how long you are up in the air for?

Then it could be 1.longshot..2.too much touch(short/miss)...3.perfect shot...4 slightly hard(backboard shots if aimed right or brick)..5.back down to short for holding it too long.

So right when you jump and release the shot is long(1). Just under the perfect height in your jump is miss/short/(2). Right at the tip of jump=perfect(3) just past top for backboard and hard misses(4) and when you are coming down from the shot=short(5).

[Rebel10]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

This is correct. An early release makes the ball go long. When you let go of the ball going up, it has more on it, if you let go of the ball going down, it has less on it.

I basically don't really care if they fix it, but the OP is right.

[rEAnimator]

Re: should an early release result in a short or long shot?

Hey guys, I just wanted to let everyone know that we're still discussing this issue, it is not being ignored, and we've read every comment in this thread and the other threads that touch on the same topic.

There are a lot of really good ideas being put out there, and I wanted to thank everyone who has offered up a suggestion. I really mean that. We may very well use some of the suggestions that have been made here.

I'll give you guys a more detailed rundown of everything once we've made a final decision, but at this point we're still doing some tests and debating the merits of a few different approaches.

Thanks for the passion you guys show for basketball video games. It makes our jobs that much more satisfying.