A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

[eko718]

Re: A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

Great post WTF. I've talked about this ad nauseum(outside of this forum)... I couldn't agree more. It seems a main proponent of the 'give and take' approach that EA has with its NBA franchise could be due to the fact that they lack a steady production team. How can you 'build upon' anything if the producers this year have no clue about what was done last year? EA can't proceed to step 2 of any plan because it still hasn't determined the foundation it wants to build on(even though it had that with Live '10). So those still supporting the franchise have been spending money on projects as opposed to good product.

[eko718]

Re: A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

[quote=sportyguyfl31;2041570722]

This whole things just reeks of NBA Live 07. No videos, no information really, just fluff and filler.

quote]

Nah NBA Live 07, was on of the most diabolical things EA has ever done.

That game was a Turkey, they knew it was a Turkey, and you didnt see or hear word boo from them until after release.

NBA Live 07 was one of the biggest atrocities to be commited on the sports gaming public.

You really just have to be acquainted with how a company moves. I was absolutely CERTAIN that EA's first attempt on next gen would be a debacle, even before hearing anything about the game. I knew EA's first attempt on next gen was a prime opportunity to put out a half-as- product with 'next gen graphics', that would have fans anticipating how they could improve next year. The game was actually even worse than I could have imagined however.

[JWiLL02]

Re: A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

You really just have to be acquainted with how a company moves. I was absolutely CERTAIN that EA's first attempt on next gen would be a debacle, even before hearing anything about the game. I knew EA's first attempt on next gen was a prime opportunity to put out a half-as- product with 'next gen graphics', that would have fans anticipating how they could improve next year. The game was actually even worse than I could have imagined however.

The real issue was that Live 06 was the "half assed product" with next gen graphics. The fact that they had a whole development cycle and it still resulted in Live 07...ugh.

[eko718]

Re: A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

^^^ Was that the one with D Wade on the cover? At this point, I only bought Live for the PC, and I think I liked that one.

[WTF]

Re: A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

It is, Live 06. But PC still had the xbox/ps2 port instead of the 360. So it was still a decent game.

[Sinner]

Re: A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

Dont post much in this forum but wanted to commend you on a great post WTF enjoyed reading every word and I agree with everything you and others have said in your post. I havent been much of a EA sports fan in awhile as far as buying...have always prefered the competition but really liked the direction Live 10 was going. My thought like everybody elses im sure is it's best to have both companies bringing their "A" game each year that way we all win. Again you Da Czar and others keep the great discussions coming and hopefully they will be heard from the parties that be and something will change for the better.

[Element of Style_OS]

Re: A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

Great Post !

[fatleg3]

Re: A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

Great post WTF, couldn't agree more with your statements. Too bad that as basketball gamers we make a very small portion of the gaming market. And like i mention before in another thread, with the "pick up and play" aspect of gameplay they are trying to reach, their main goals is to pull in the casual gamers. Larger portion = greater profits and hopefully the brand "EA" will keep the vets around at least until year 2 of 3.

I dont disagree with you on this post or refute the fact the or trying to pull in more people but is it really made as a "pick up and play type game" this yr?

Those that played the game have said their is a learning curve to things in the game. (Correct me if im wrong)

With it being a learning curve i know it will turn a lot of people off the game. While a have friends that play games a lot, i also have some that just plays them every now and then or for an hour or two before they go to bed every night. Whenever i get a new games they have not played and if its to hard or if they cant get it right away they automatically think its stupid.

For example with madden and the locomotion system. I think there is a learning curve to making tackles in the open field and stopping the ball carrier from cutting back. You have to learn how to take the right angle to stop them from cutting back. They were saying the game is stupid and quiting before the first quarter even ended. Now if it was a game they could pick up and compete with me in right away then they would go out and buy it casue they had some much fun. To me live 10 did not have a big learning curve especiallly when it came to shooting. A friend who did not even own a system came over and played me in a game. He played with the cavs and scored like 60 points with mo Williams his first time playing and beat me with them. I lie to you not he went and brought a 360 over the weekend and was playing live endlessly.

I also agree that they keep changing plans but like i said correct me if im wrong but the ones who have played have said their is a learning curve so i just dont think the games is geared towards just what some people call casual gamers. While the are making the controls simple, at the same time i really do believe they also want you to have some kind of skill be successful. I feel you really have to pay attention to what you are doing with the ball at all times and the casual gamer who just picks the game up to play is not going to get that at first

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

Live 07 wasnt a complete reboot. It was using the ai94 system code(which it was called), which is from the Genesis days for Live 95. How do I know this, well a friend and I decompiled this game comparing it to other Lives and found the same code line for line in this game. (We both attended DigiPen, game design school.)

Wow! Dude, if what you're saying is true, then the Live '06 campaign about "rewriting the game from scratch for next gen systems" was an outright lie. That is how it was marketed, right?

[Jukeman]

Re: A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

No wonder why that other guy left...


I havent played Live for a while (07) but Ive always followed the development and I completely agree with the OP...

[23]

Re: A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

Wow! Dude, if what you're saying is true, then the Live '06 campaign about "rewriting the game from scratch for next gen systems" was an outright lie. That is how it was marketed, right?

Thats exactly what was told us. We even got a promise of guys diving into the stands to save loose balls lol

Sounded good at the time but yeah thats pretty bad if true

[Playmakers]

Re: A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

All i ever wanted was for a CPU/AI opponent to play like real basketball players for once.....LOL!

I mean seriously how hard can it be after 5 years to make them look like ballers on the floor?

I'm sick of robot looking animations and i'm sick of excuses about next year. I want to see the *&%$ CPU play exactly the way you market those damn videos/commercials

One year they had Dirk doing some amazing stuff with the ball and then the game drops and nothing even resembles that stuff. I don't care about 100% control, i don't care about the pop corn guy in the stands and i don't care about Fifa or NHL

I just want a darn game that plays true to life basketball for once....no more excuses about we can't do this and we can't do that because the engine limits our ability. I don't care if you have to take the players from Live 06 and slap some coating on them to look next gen atleast those guys moved and looked like ballers on the floor at the time.

How the heck can you not have better animated players after 5 years then the one's you had on PS2.

For crying out loud they could have kept the engine from 08 and just fixed the *&%$ animations. Here we are with Elite 11 and it's the same start over *&%$ again.

Oh yeah and just to show how bad it's been i've never played College Hoops 2K8 until this summer and that freakin game has better animated players than Live 07, 08, 09, 10 and Elite 11.

Hows that possible EA for a College game out dated to have better animations than any of your products on Next Gen?

[bigsmallwood]

Re: A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

Im guessing you missed the whole Inside Drive movement then because their AI puts to shame almost any game made to date

That said, if this demo doesnt work for the masses then ouch

In similar ways some things are done in a Live 07 ish way.. No blogs, not 5 on 5 video, no sizzle videos until the vids from Venice came out.

Those kinds of things dont exactly boost confidence in the people who pretty much got burned on what the OP just explained.

Agreed. NBA Inside Drive had something really special going on with the AI and gameplay as a whole. It still is better than 99% of NBA or College BBall games made to date.

@WTF: Great Post! I agree with every word. It seems that everything EA promises and markets, it doesn't come across in the final build of the game. Not to mention they have had years to get it right, but as your post shows, they keep resetting...and for no good reason whatsoever

[rEAnimator]

Re: A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

No doubt, he and stepsix have been very active with the community on the product, but so was backflash and JabStep (I think was his name) on the NCAA Basketball forums. They were extremely active until post release, and then when the bickering came, they were gone.

I really hope that these two stay here and continue to bring support to the titles. Marcus was the one guy who constantly provided updates from EA, and for that, he gained a lot of respect. Seemed like he knew what was wanted from the forums too, and tried to parlay that to the dev team.

But that quote from him REALLY threw me off on this series. I'm not paying $70 for game 1 of a 3 game series. Maybe $20, $20, and then $30 for the final game, so $70 total... but there is no earthly way that I will get suckered into buying a game with a promise of next year.

I've done it for too long, and I want to show them that this is why they're constantly losing sales. Including another one this year.

I understand you've been burned in the past. I get it, trust me. Those Procedural Awareness and foot planting videos make me cringe.

There's nothing I can say, or anyone else can say, that will justify you trusting us this year.

You've been burned too many times in the past, words aren't going to cut it.

At this point all I can do is continue to do my job to the best of my ability and hopefully over time some of that trust can be regained.

But it will have to be based on result, not based on words. I get that.

[convince]

Re: A 3 Year Plan (LONG read)

I dont disagree with you on this post or refute the fact the or trying to pull in more people but is it really made as a "pick up and play type game" this yr?

Those that played the game have said their is a learning curve to things in the game. (Correct me if im wrong)

With it being a learning curve i know it will turn a lot of people off the game. While a have friends that play games a lot, i also have some that just plays them every now and then or for an hour or two before they go to bed every night. Whenever i get a new games they have not played and if its to hard or if they cant get it right away they automatically think its stupid.

For example with madden and the locomotion system. I think there is a learning curve to making tackles in the open field and stopping the ball carrier from cutting back. You have to learn how to take the right angle to stop them from cutting back. They were saying the game is stupid and quiting before the first quarter even ended. Now if it was a game they could pick up and compete with me in right away then they would go out and buy it casue they had some much fun. To me live 10 did not have a big learning curve especiallly when it came to shooting. A friend who did not even own a system came over and played me in a game. He played with the cavs and scored like 60 points with mo Williams his first time playing and beat me with them. I lie to you not he went and brought a 360 over the weekend and was playing live endlessly.

I also agree that they keep changing plans but like i said correct me if im wrong but the ones who have played have said their is a learning curve so i just dont think the games is geared towards just what some people call casual gamers. While the are making the controls simple, at the same time i really do believe they also want you to have some kind of skill be successful. I feel you really have to pay attention to what you are doing with the ball at all times and the casual gamer who just picks the game up to play is not going to get that at first

I don't disagree with you at all. I think when introduce new games to anyone there is some form of learning curve. I just think they are making the learning curve pretty small. Btw making the controls easy to learn is not a bad thing at all. But I think implementing things that make the game appealing to casual consumers, that may or may not buy the game, while alienating your faithful fans is a huge mistake(Hence the original message of this thread). Casual fans are very fickle, they aren't the fans that will by the game on a yearly basis. Just my opinion though. I just hope the next direction wont be 5 on 5 NBA Jam b/c "We can get even more Casual Fans!"