Freestyle vs. Isomotion

**jordan0386** · 10-30-2003, 03:51 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Pared said:
Both you ESPN blinded fools are a joke. Those last two posts aren't spoken by people who know the game of basketball. Street ball... maybe.

Aside from this thread, where ELSE have you both posted giving credit to Live? Exactly. No need to come in a forum and defend a game: It's not your child.

And those comments about freestyle being arcadey is a joke... honestly. Sliders do wonders in Live, and help minimize that "arcadey" feeling, if you even feel that it's worth justifying that poor point. Spare us all guys. If we wanted completely biased opinions, this would be posted in the ESPN forum, and the many of us ex-NBA 2k'ers would be there responding to it as ESPN fans.

<hr /></blockquote>

well.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .......................exactly

**Kanobi** · 10-30-2003, 07:14 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
jiggaman said:
its like russian roulette?? the isomotion moves are much more rewarding with risk, you can cross your man up for just enough room to get off the open j. freestyle is like a mad mash on the joystick with no penalty for blindly bashing the stick, which is very arcade-like. isomotion you can't run down the floor crossing over every 2 seconds or your defender will jump out and draw a charge on you. but when you pull off a nasty crossover at the perfect time and shake your defender, its all worth it. i've only had the game 2 days and i am getting the isomotion down to an art, and overall its more realistic/challenging/rewarding then freestyle is.

lol @ the "essence of basketball is not cat and mouse"...so your telling me that the "essence of basketball" is stringing together 50 dribble moves in a row, with the final result being either your open, or your not?? cat and mouse is EXACTLY the essence of basketball, one suttle move that fakes your defender another way is "cat and mouse", not running down the court spinning in circles until finally your defender moves out of your way. i think you need to re-analyze the whole concept of isomotion, cuz realism wise-it owns freestyle. but if you want an arcade style of game where you can string together ridiculous moves with no chance of getting called for an offensive foul, then freestyle is the way to go. its all preference.

<hr /></blockquote>

very informative post.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Pared said:
...those comments about freestyle being arcadey is a joke... honestly. Sliders do wonders in Live, and help minimize that "arcadey" feeling...

<hr /></blockquote>

Hmm...But you admit that Freestyle is very arcadey out of he box do you not? I think thats what the discussion is dealing with...Iso vs Freestyle...without sliders.

Interesting thread so far.

**Kanobi** · 10-30-2003, 07:14 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
jiggaman said:
its like russian roulette?? the isomotion moves are much more rewarding with risk, you can cross your man up for just enough room to get off the open j. freestyle is like a mad mash on the joystick with no penalty for blindly bashing the stick, which is very arcade-like. isomotion you can't run down the floor crossing over every 2 seconds or your defender will jump out and draw a charge on you. but when you pull off a nasty crossover at the perfect time and shake your defender, its all worth it. i've only had the game 2 days and i am getting the isomotion down to an art, and overall its more realistic/challenging/rewarding then freestyle is.

lol @ the "essence of basketball is not cat and mouse"...so your telling me that the "essence of basketball" is stringing together 50 dribble moves in a row, with the final result being either your open, or your not?? cat and mouse is EXACTLY the essence of basketball, one suttle move that fakes your defender another way is "cat and mouse", not running down the court spinning in circles until finally your defender moves out of your way. i think you need to re-analyze the whole concept of isomotion, cuz realism wise-it owns freestyle. but if you want an arcade style of game where you can string together ridiculous moves with no chance of getting called for an offensive foul, then freestyle is the way to go. its all preference.

<hr /></blockquote>

very informative post.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Pared said:
...those comments about freestyle being arcadey is a joke... honestly. Sliders do wonders in Live, and help minimize that "arcadey" feeling...

<hr /></blockquote>

Hmm...But you admit that Freestyle is very arcadey out of he box do you not? I think thats what the discussion is dealing with...Iso vs Freestyle...without sliders.

Interesting thread so far.

**Kanobi** · 10-30-2003, 07:14 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
jiggaman said:
its like russian roulette?? the isomotion moves are much more rewarding with risk, you can cross your man up for just enough room to get off the open j. freestyle is like a mad mash on the joystick with no penalty for blindly bashing the stick, which is very arcade-like. isomotion you can't run down the floor crossing over every 2 seconds or your defender will jump out and draw a charge on you. but when you pull off a nasty crossover at the perfect time and shake your defender, its all worth it. i've only had the game 2 days and i am getting the isomotion down to an art, and overall its more realistic/challenging/rewarding then freestyle is.

lol @ the "essence of basketball is not cat and mouse"...so your telling me that the "essence of basketball" is stringing together 50 dribble moves in a row, with the final result being either your open, or your not?? cat and mouse is EXACTLY the essence of basketball, one suttle move that fakes your defender another way is "cat and mouse", not running down the court spinning in circles until finally your defender moves out of your way. i think you need to re-analyze the whole concept of isomotion, cuz realism wise-it owns freestyle. but if you want an arcade style of game where you can string together ridiculous moves with no chance of getting called for an offensive foul, then freestyle is the way to go. its all preference.

<hr /></blockquote>

very informative post.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Pared said:
...those comments about freestyle being arcadey is a joke... honestly. Sliders do wonders in Live, and help minimize that "arcadey" feeling...

<hr /></blockquote>

Hmm...But you admit that Freestyle is very arcadey out of he box do you not? I think thats what the discussion is dealing with...Iso vs Freestyle...without sliders.

Interesting thread so far.

**Pared** · 10-30-2003, 09:49 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Pared said:
Sliders do wonders in Live, and help minimize that "arcadey" feeling, if you even feel that it's worth justifying that poor point.

<hr /></blockquote>

Kanobi, don't misconstrue my words please.

My point was no matter how you feel about freestyle, there is a slider in Live to adjust it's effectiveness. There's no similar thing in ESPN, b/c it's "mini game" can't be altered, at least to my knowledge. I could be wrong on that last part.

**Pared** · 10-30-2003, 09:49 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Pared said:
Sliders do wonders in Live, and help minimize that "arcadey" feeling, if you even feel that it's worth justifying that poor point.

<hr /></blockquote>

Kanobi, don't misconstrue my words please.

My point was no matter how you feel about freestyle, there is a slider in Live to adjust it's effectiveness. There's no similar thing in ESPN, b/c it's "mini game" can't be altered, at least to my knowledge. I could be wrong on that last part.

**Pared** · 10-30-2003, 09:49 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Pared said:
Sliders do wonders in Live, and help minimize that "arcadey" feeling, if you even feel that it's worth justifying that poor point.

<hr /></blockquote>

Kanobi, don't misconstrue my words please.

My point was no matter how you feel about freestyle, there is a slider in Live to adjust it's effectiveness. There's no similar thing in ESPN, b/c it's "mini game" can't be altered, at least to my knowledge. I could be wrong on that last part.

**trung** · 10-30-2003, 10:45 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Virix said:
As a person who enjoys both games, Id have to say its a wash. Freestyle has zero risk vs. reward like Isomotion, which sucks. I love how in isomotion people dont just bring the ball down the court constantly crossing over because theres too much risk involved. On the other hand, Live is more responsive to my controls. The AI in Live (even on superstar) will fall for a fake eventually if you just wiggle the stick back and forth, which will lead to a wide open jumper (at least). The AI in ESPN attacks people using isomotion, which makes it very risky to over use the moves.

time out. freestyle has no risk? youre much more succeptible to getting the ball stolen when you do freestyle. in the nba, 100% of the players can do between the leg dribbles, spin moves, etc...being able to cross someone up with it is a different matter. i think live does a good job of capturing this nuance. and you make it sound as if freestyle is all about wiggling back and forth as if a monkey could do it. there is definitely a lot more strategy than youre making it out to be. havent you ever had the ball stripped, charged into someone, or dribble the ball out of bounds?

**trung** · 10-30-2003, 10:45 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Virix said:
As a person who enjoys both games, Id have to say its a wash. Freestyle has zero risk vs. reward like Isomotion, which sucks. I love how in isomotion people dont just bring the ball down the court constantly crossing over because theres too much risk involved. On the other hand, Live is more responsive to my controls. The AI in Live (even on superstar) will fall for a fake eventually if you just wiggle the stick back and forth, which will lead to a wide open jumper (at least). The AI in ESPN attacks people using isomotion, which makes it very risky to over use the moves.

time out. freestyle has no risk? youre much more succeptible to getting the ball stolen when you do freestyle. in the nba, 100% of the players can do between the leg dribbles, spin moves, etc...being able to cross someone up with it is a different matter. i think live does a good job of capturing this nuance. and you make it sound as if freestyle is all about wiggling back and forth as if a monkey could do it. there is definitely a lot more strategy than youre making it out to be. havent you ever had the ball stripped, charged into someone, or dribble the ball out of bounds?

**trung** · 10-30-2003, 10:45 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Virix said:
As a person who enjoys both games, Id have to say its a wash. Freestyle has zero risk vs. reward like Isomotion, which sucks. I love how in isomotion people dont just bring the ball down the court constantly crossing over because theres too much risk involved. On the other hand, Live is more responsive to my controls. The AI in Live (even on superstar) will fall for a fake eventually if you just wiggle the stick back and forth, which will lead to a wide open jumper (at least). The AI in ESPN attacks people using isomotion, which makes it very risky to over use the moves.

time out. freestyle has no risk? youre much more succeptible to getting the ball stolen when you do freestyle. in the nba, 100% of the players can do between the leg dribbles, spin moves, etc...being able to cross someone up with it is a different matter. i think live does a good job of capturing this nuance. and you make it sound as if freestyle is all about wiggling back and forth as if a monkey could do it. there is definitely a lot more strategy than youre making it out to be. havent you ever had the ball stripped, charged into someone, or dribble the ball out of bounds?

**wwharton** · 10-30-2003, 04:46 PM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

First someone tell that kid to edit his post. the stretching is annoying.

Next, I hate to go into this much detail in a Live forum but here's the deal...

Even last year 2k3 began the cat and mouse style of moves, and now they just extended things to the Rt stick so it's not innovative really. You didn't hear the uproar b/c it wasn't on the rt stick so there was no need tocompare it to freestyle (and it didn't have a name). Anyway, I agree that the two can't really be compared. With ESPN you need to have mastered the pivot mode, the crossover, other isomotion moves, etc. to get to freestyle. This goes to what Obi's saying. It's a longer learning process to get things down. Is this good or bad? Depends on what you're looking for.

It's funny b/c you can look at it like playing pick up ball. Some (MANY) people step on the court thinking they're performing moves like AI when they're really just bumping into the defender, getting stopped, trying again, etc, etc, and really looking pretty silly. In organized ball a lot of these kids would get called for charges. This is pretty much what's happening in ESPN. People are trying to string together freestyle type of moves rather than playing fundamental basketball and they look silly.

Basketball is most definitely cat and mouse. Performing offensive isomotion is a risk as well as defensive but the majority of the game should involve little to no isomotion at all. It took me a while to get this too as I played 2k3 and holding the trigger was how you "manned up" on D. Now it does this automatically just by getting in front of the offensive player. Holding the trigger is a true attempt to take a charge. When you do this you can't move at all and therefore you're merciless against a driver that doesn't run into you so the new way is MUCH more realistic. If you try playing D without hitting anything you'll notice that they do a lot of things automatically. I think we all just have this need to push buttons, lol.

On offense, it's pretty much the same thing. Generally speaking you just want to dribble the ball up, pass it around, etc. You may want to do a move here or there but trying to do too much will put you out of control and cause a charge.

This isn't to say the freestyle idea (especially the new toned down version) is a bad one, not even close. But the fundamental thought of it is VERY different and if you approach isomotion with freestyle in mind you WILL run into problems.

**wwharton** · 10-30-2003, 04:46 PM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

First someone tell that kid to edit his post. the stretching is annoying.

Next, I hate to go into this much detail in a Live forum but here's the deal...

Even last year 2k3 began the cat and mouse style of moves, and now they just extended things to the Rt stick so it's not innovative really. You didn't hear the uproar b/c it wasn't on the rt stick so there was no need tocompare it to freestyle (and it didn't have a name). Anyway, I agree that the two can't really be compared. With ESPN you need to have mastered the pivot mode, the crossover, other isomotion moves, etc. to get to freestyle. This goes to what Obi's saying. It's a longer learning process to get things down. Is this good or bad? Depends on what you're looking for.

It's funny b/c you can look at it like playing pick up ball. Some (MANY) people step on the court thinking they're performing moves like AI when they're really just bumping into the defender, getting stopped, trying again, etc, etc, and really looking pretty silly. In organized ball a lot of these kids would get called for charges. This is pretty much what's happening in ESPN. People are trying to string together freestyle type of moves rather than playing fundamental basketball and they look silly.

Basketball is most definitely cat and mouse. Performing offensive isomotion is a risk as well as defensive but the majority of the game should involve little to no isomotion at all. It took me a while to get this too as I played 2k3 and holding the trigger was how you "manned up" on D. Now it does this automatically just by getting in front of the offensive player. Holding the trigger is a true attempt to take a charge. When you do this you can't move at all and therefore you're merciless against a driver that doesn't run into you so the new way is MUCH more realistic. If you try playing D without hitting anything you'll notice that they do a lot of things automatically. I think we all just have this need to push buttons, lol.

On offense, it's pretty much the same thing. Generally speaking you just want to dribble the ball up, pass it around, etc. You may want to do a move here or there but trying to do too much will put you out of control and cause a charge.

This isn't to say the freestyle idea (especially the new toned down version) is a bad one, not even close. But the fundamental thought of it is VERY different and if you approach isomotion with freestyle in mind you WILL run into problems.

**wwharton** · 10-30-2003, 04:46 PM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

First someone tell that kid to edit his post. the stretching is annoying.

Next, I hate to go into this much detail in a Live forum but here's the deal...

Even last year 2k3 began the cat and mouse style of moves, and now they just extended things to the Rt stick so it's not innovative really. You didn't hear the uproar b/c it wasn't on the rt stick so there was no need tocompare it to freestyle (and it didn't have a name). Anyway, I agree that the two can't really be compared. With ESPN you need to have mastered the pivot mode, the crossover, other isomotion moves, etc. to get to freestyle. This goes to what Obi's saying. It's a longer learning process to get things down. Is this good or bad? Depends on what you're looking for.

It's funny b/c you can look at it like playing pick up ball. Some (MANY) people step on the court thinking they're performing moves like AI when they're really just bumping into the defender, getting stopped, trying again, etc, etc, and really looking pretty silly. In organized ball a lot of these kids would get called for charges. This is pretty much what's happening in ESPN. People are trying to string together freestyle type of moves rather than playing fundamental basketball and they look silly.

Basketball is most definitely cat and mouse. Performing offensive isomotion is a risk as well as defensive but the majority of the game should involve little to no isomotion at all. It took me a while to get this too as I played 2k3 and holding the trigger was how you "manned up" on D. Now it does this automatically just by getting in front of the offensive player. Holding the trigger is a true attempt to take a charge. When you do this you can't move at all and therefore you're merciless against a driver that doesn't run into you so the new way is MUCH more realistic. If you try playing D without hitting anything you'll notice that they do a lot of things automatically. I think we all just have this need to push buttons, lol.

On offense, it's pretty much the same thing. Generally speaking you just want to dribble the ball up, pass it around, etc. You may want to do a move here or there but trying to do too much will put you out of control and cause a charge.

This isn't to say the freestyle idea (especially the new toned down version) is a bad one, not even close. But the fundamental thought of it is VERY different and if you approach isomotion with freestyle in mind you WILL run into problems.

**Virix** · 10-30-2003, 04:58 PM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Pared said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Pared said:
Sliders do wonders in Live, and help minimize that "arcadey" feeling, if you even feel that it's worth justifying that poor point.

<hr /></blockquote>

Kanobi, don't misconstrue my words please.

My point was no matter how you feel about freestyle, there is a slider in Live to adjust it's effectiveness. There's no similar thing in ESPN, b/c it's "mini game" can't be altered, at least to my knowledge. I could be wrong on that last part.

<hr /></blockquote>

Actually you are wrong about that. The Ball Handling slider will effect Isomotion effectiveness. Theres a slider for both, so that point really doesnt matter one bit...

**Virix** · 10-30-2003, 04:58 PM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Pared said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Pared said:
Sliders do wonders in Live, and help minimize that "arcadey" feeling, if you even feel that it's worth justifying that poor point.

<hr /></blockquote>

Kanobi, don't misconstrue my words please.

My point was no matter how you feel about freestyle, there is a slider in Live to adjust it's effectiveness. There's no similar thing in ESPN, b/c it's "mini game" can't be altered, at least to my knowledge. I could be wrong on that last part.

<hr /></blockquote>

Actually you are wrong about that. The Ball Handling slider will effect Isomotion effectiveness. Theres a slider for both, so that point really doesnt matter one bit...

Freestyle vs. Isomotion

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