Freestyle vs. Isomotion

**Whaaaazuuuuup** · 10-29-2003, 08:37 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Virix said:
As a person who enjoys both games, Id have to say its a wash. Freestyle has zero risk vs. reward like Isomotion, which sucks. I love how in isomotion people dont just bring the ball down the court constantly crossing over because theres too much risk involved. On the other hand, Live is more responsive to my controls. The AI in Live (even on superstar) will fall for a fake eventually if you just wiggle the stick back and forth, which will lead to a wide open jumper (at least). The AI in ESPN attacks people using isomotion, which makes it very risky to over use the moves.

I think some of the moves in ESPN are over the top, but a quick adjustment to the ball handling rating slider fixes that. I really dont think one is better than the other, if you are actually willing to learn to use Isomotion which has a much higer learning curve than freestyle. So far it has seemed to me that people popped in ESPN, wiggled the stick a bit and decided freestyle is better. "OMG I cant control him" "WTF is he doing?" "God this sucks" was exactly what my friends said when they first played. But once they actually took a day or two and learned how to use isomotion, it was a different story.

Isomotion needs work without question, but imo so does freestyle.

<hr /></blockquote>

man i beg to differ. with the tough defense in LIVE, i've yet to shake a defender like i did in 2003. i triyed ESPN for the weekend, and the iso-motion is like "russian rolet" i can't seem to do a simply cross-over in this game. it alway's gives me a combination of moves, which aren't necessary. if you learned to do iso-motion to were is benefical the game to the game...

OH! i pick, FREESTYLE!...

**Virix** · 10-29-2003, 08:39 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SoMiss2000 said:
I don't think people like worrying with starting a move then having to cancel it. How real is that?

<hr /></blockquote>

Ive played basketball my entire life, and there have been plenty of times I would get the ball in the post, spin in the direction of the baseline and get cut off. At that point I couldnt spin anymore without getting a charge call so I usually was forced into pulling up. Its very realistic to actually have the defense be able to move into position and dictate what you can and cannot do.

**Virix** · 10-29-2003, 08:39 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SoMiss2000 said:
I don't think people like worrying with starting a move then having to cancel it. How real is that?

<hr /></blockquote>

Ive played basketball my entire life, and there have been plenty of times I would get the ball in the post, spin in the direction of the baseline and get cut off. At that point I couldnt spin anymore without getting a charge call so I usually was forced into pulling up. Its very realistic to actually have the defense be able to move into position and dictate what you can and cannot do.

**Virix** · 10-29-2003, 08:39 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SoMiss2000 said:
I don't think people like worrying with starting a move then having to cancel it. How real is that?

<hr /></blockquote>

Ive played basketball my entire life, and there have been plenty of times I would get the ball in the post, spin in the direction of the baseline and get cut off. At that point I couldnt spin anymore without getting a charge call so I usually was forced into pulling up. Its very realistic to actually have the defense be able to move into position and dictate what you can and cannot do.

**wwharton** · 10-29-2003, 11:00 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Virix said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SoMiss2000 said:
I don't think people like worrying with starting a move then having to cancel it. How real is that?

<hr /></blockquote>

Ive played basketball my entire life, and there have been plenty of times I would get the ball in the post, spin in the direction of the baseline and get cut off. At that point I couldnt spin anymore without getting a charge call so I usually was forced into pulling up. Its very realistic to actually have the defense be able to move into position and dictate what you can and cannot do.

<hr /></blockquote>

Without touching this argument with more time with BOTH this was one thing I was going to say too. This may be the MOST realistic thing in the cat and mouse game of basketball. Either you stop the move or you run the guy over and get called for a charge...very realistic.

Here's the KEY... in most cases you won't do a huge move but settle for a subtle, more in control move so you don't have much adjusting to do if you are cut off. The general tendency (by me right now too) is to push all the way in on direction or the other for the isomotion but the manual states that slightly pushing gives the toned down moves. I think once people get a hang of things with these moves too, isomotion will be MUCH better. Just like last year Freestyle seemed much more realistic once people learned how to cancel the crazy offensive moves with the defensive moves.

Basically this is a good question but it's really too early for a realistic answer.

**wwharton** · 10-29-2003, 11:00 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Virix said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SoMiss2000 said:
I don't think people like worrying with starting a move then having to cancel it. How real is that?

<hr /></blockquote>

Ive played basketball my entire life, and there have been plenty of times I would get the ball in the post, spin in the direction of the baseline and get cut off. At that point I couldnt spin anymore without getting a charge call so I usually was forced into pulling up. Its very realistic to actually have the defense be able to move into position and dictate what you can and cannot do.

<hr /></blockquote>

Without touching this argument with more time with BOTH this was one thing I was going to say too. This may be the MOST realistic thing in the cat and mouse game of basketball. Either you stop the move or you run the guy over and get called for a charge...very realistic.

Here's the KEY... in most cases you won't do a huge move but settle for a subtle, more in control move so you don't have much adjusting to do if you are cut off. The general tendency (by me right now too) is to push all the way in on direction or the other for the isomotion but the manual states that slightly pushing gives the toned down moves. I think once people get a hang of things with these moves too, isomotion will be MUCH better. Just like last year Freestyle seemed much more realistic once people learned how to cancel the crazy offensive moves with the defensive moves.

Basically this is a good question but it's really too early for a realistic answer.

**wwharton** · 10-29-2003, 11:00 AM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Virix said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SoMiss2000 said:
I don't think people like worrying with starting a move then having to cancel it. How real is that?

<hr /></blockquote>

Ive played basketball my entire life, and there have been plenty of times I would get the ball in the post, spin in the direction of the baseline and get cut off. At that point I couldnt spin anymore without getting a charge call so I usually was forced into pulling up. Its very realistic to actually have the defense be able to move into position and dictate what you can and cannot do.

<hr /></blockquote>

Without touching this argument with more time with BOTH this was one thing I was going to say too. This may be the MOST realistic thing in the cat and mouse game of basketball. Either you stop the move or you run the guy over and get called for a charge...very realistic.

Here's the KEY... in most cases you won't do a huge move but settle for a subtle, more in control move so you don't have much adjusting to do if you are cut off. The general tendency (by me right now too) is to push all the way in on direction or the other for the isomotion but the manual states that slightly pushing gives the toned down moves. I think once people get a hang of things with these moves too, isomotion will be MUCH better. Just like last year Freestyle seemed much more realistic once people learned how to cancel the crazy offensive moves with the defensive moves.

Basically this is a good question but it's really too early for a realistic answer.

**Pared** · 10-29-2003, 12:18 PM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
wwharton said:Without touching this argument with more time with BOTH this was one thing I was going to say too. This may be the MOST realistic thing in the cat and mouse game of basketball. Either you stop the move or you run the guy over and get called for a charge...very realistic.

Here's the KEY... in most cases you won't do a huge move but settle for a subtle, more in control move so you don't have much adjusting to do if you are cut off. The general tendency (by me right now too) is to push all the way in on direction or the other for the isomotion but the manual states that slightly pushing gives the toned down moves. I think once people get a hang of things with these moves too, isomotion will be MUCH better. Just like last year Freestyle seemed much more realistic once people learned how to cancel the crazy offensive moves with the defensive moves.

Basically this is a good question but it's really too early for a realistic answer.

<hr /></blockquote>

I agree on your cat and mouse analysis, but the way it's implemented in ESPN isn't completely accurate. As a defender you don't just "jump" in front of the ball handler and try and draw a charge, you stay with the man. If you DO get in front of him from that little hop, by NBA Rules it's a blocking foul, a moving violation.

How often do you see guards jump in front of other guards on the top of the key and get a charge call? Exactly.

You can't really compared IsoMotion to THIS year's freestyle. It's still a first year thing, and if you think about, many people had gripes with Live's freestyle last year being too easy.

**Pared** · 10-29-2003, 12:18 PM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
wwharton said:Without touching this argument with more time with BOTH this was one thing I was going to say too. This may be the MOST realistic thing in the cat and mouse game of basketball. Either you stop the move or you run the guy over and get called for a charge...very realistic.

Here's the KEY... in most cases you won't do a huge move but settle for a subtle, more in control move so you don't have much adjusting to do if you are cut off. The general tendency (by me right now too) is to push all the way in on direction or the other for the isomotion but the manual states that slightly pushing gives the toned down moves. I think once people get a hang of things with these moves too, isomotion will be MUCH better. Just like last year Freestyle seemed much more realistic once people learned how to cancel the crazy offensive moves with the defensive moves.

Basically this is a good question but it's really too early for a realistic answer.

<hr /></blockquote>

I agree on your cat and mouse analysis, but the way it's implemented in ESPN isn't completely accurate. As a defender you don't just "jump" in front of the ball handler and try and draw a charge, you stay with the man. If you DO get in front of him from that little hop, by NBA Rules it's a blocking foul, a moving violation.

How often do you see guards jump in front of other guards on the top of the key and get a charge call? Exactly.

You can't really compared IsoMotion to THIS year's freestyle. It's still a first year thing, and if you think about, many people had gripes with Live's freestyle last year being too easy.

**Pared** · 10-29-2003, 12:18 PM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
wwharton said:Without touching this argument with more time with BOTH this was one thing I was going to say too. This may be the MOST realistic thing in the cat and mouse game of basketball. Either you stop the move or you run the guy over and get called for a charge...very realistic.

Here's the KEY... in most cases you won't do a huge move but settle for a subtle, more in control move so you don't have much adjusting to do if you are cut off. The general tendency (by me right now too) is to push all the way in on direction or the other for the isomotion but the manual states that slightly pushing gives the toned down moves. I think once people get a hang of things with these moves too, isomotion will be MUCH better. Just like last year Freestyle seemed much more realistic once people learned how to cancel the crazy offensive moves with the defensive moves.

Basically this is a good question but it's really too early for a realistic answer.

<hr /></blockquote>

I agree on your cat and mouse analysis, but the way it's implemented in ESPN isn't completely accurate. As a defender you don't just "jump" in front of the ball handler and try and draw a charge, you stay with the man. If you DO get in front of him from that little hop, by NBA Rules it's a blocking foul, a moving violation.

How often do you see guards jump in front of other guards on the top of the key and get a charge call? Exactly.

You can't really compared IsoMotion to THIS year's freestyle. It's still a first year thing, and if you think about, many people had gripes with Live's freestyle last year being too easy.

**Virix** · 10-29-2003, 12:24 PM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Pared said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
wwharton said:Without touching this argument with more time with BOTH this was one thing I was going to say too. This may be the MOST realistic thing in the cat and mouse game of basketball. Either you stop the move or you run the guy over and get called for a charge...very realistic.

Here's the KEY... in most cases you won't do a huge move but settle for a subtle, more in control move so you don't have much adjusting to do if you are cut off. The general tendency (by me right now too) is to push all the way in on direction or the other for the isomotion but the manual states that slightly pushing gives the toned down moves. I think once people get a hang of things with these moves too, isomotion will be MUCH better. Just like last year Freestyle seemed much more realistic once people learned how to cancel the crazy offensive moves with the defensive moves.

Basically this is a good question but it's really too early for a realistic answer.

<hr /></blockquote>

I agree on your cat and mouse analysis, but the way it's implemented in ESPN isn't completely accurate. As a defender you don't just "jump" in front of the ball handler and try and draw a charge, you stay with the man. If you DO get in front of him from that little hop, by NBA Rules it's a blocking foul, a moving violation.

How often do you see guards jump in front of other guards on the top of the key and get a charge call? Exactly.

You can't really compared IsoMotion to THIS year's freestyle. It's still a first year thing, and if you think about, many people had gripes with Live's freestyle last year being too easy.

<hr /></blockquote>

It goes without question that Isomotion needs improvement, but it is by far the most realistic "cat and mouse" system in a game so far. I just wish it was a little more responsive.

**Virix** · 10-29-2003, 12:24 PM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Pared said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
wwharton said:Without touching this argument with more time with BOTH this was one thing I was going to say too. This may be the MOST realistic thing in the cat and mouse game of basketball. Either you stop the move or you run the guy over and get called for a charge...very realistic.

Here's the KEY... in most cases you won't do a huge move but settle for a subtle, more in control move so you don't have much adjusting to do if you are cut off. The general tendency (by me right now too) is to push all the way in on direction or the other for the isomotion but the manual states that slightly pushing gives the toned down moves. I think once people get a hang of things with these moves too, isomotion will be MUCH better. Just like last year Freestyle seemed much more realistic once people learned how to cancel the crazy offensive moves with the defensive moves.

Basically this is a good question but it's really too early for a realistic answer.

<hr /></blockquote>

I agree on your cat and mouse analysis, but the way it's implemented in ESPN isn't completely accurate. As a defender you don't just "jump" in front of the ball handler and try and draw a charge, you stay with the man. If you DO get in front of him from that little hop, by NBA Rules it's a blocking foul, a moving violation.

How often do you see guards jump in front of other guards on the top of the key and get a charge call? Exactly.

You can't really compared IsoMotion to THIS year's freestyle. It's still a first year thing, and if you think about, many people had gripes with Live's freestyle last year being too easy.

<hr /></blockquote>

It goes without question that Isomotion needs improvement, but it is by far the most realistic "cat and mouse" system in a game so far. I just wish it was a little more responsive.

**Virix** · 10-29-2003, 12:24 PM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Pared said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
wwharton said:Without touching this argument with more time with BOTH this was one thing I was going to say too. This may be the MOST realistic thing in the cat and mouse game of basketball. Either you stop the move or you run the guy over and get called for a charge...very realistic.

Here's the KEY... in most cases you won't do a huge move but settle for a subtle, more in control move so you don't have much adjusting to do if you are cut off. The general tendency (by me right now too) is to push all the way in on direction or the other for the isomotion but the manual states that slightly pushing gives the toned down moves. I think once people get a hang of things with these moves too, isomotion will be MUCH better. Just like last year Freestyle seemed much more realistic once people learned how to cancel the crazy offensive moves with the defensive moves.

Basically this is a good question but it's really too early for a realistic answer.

<hr /></blockquote>

I agree on your cat and mouse analysis, but the way it's implemented in ESPN isn't completely accurate. As a defender you don't just "jump" in front of the ball handler and try and draw a charge, you stay with the man. If you DO get in front of him from that little hop, by NBA Rules it's a blocking foul, a moving violation.

How often do you see guards jump in front of other guards on the top of the key and get a charge call? Exactly.

You can't really compared IsoMotion to THIS year's freestyle. It's still a first year thing, and if you think about, many people had gripes with Live's freestyle last year being too easy.

<hr /></blockquote>

It goes without question that Isomotion needs improvement, but it is by far the most realistic "cat and mouse" system in a game so far. I just wish it was a little more responsive.

**Pared** · 10-29-2003, 12:42 PM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Virix said:It goes without question that Isomotion needs improvement, but it is by far the most realistic "cat and mouse" system in a game so far. I just wish it was a little more responsive.

<hr /></blockquote>

Most realistic in a "sports" game? I disagree. Baseball games will always have that edge not that Guess pitch and location features are everywhere.

Most realistic in a basketball game? I still disagree. I don't think any b-ball game does a great job of implementing the one on one. And I wouldn't call it "most realistic" at all. What other games have this "game in a game" feature? It's a great concept, by shoddily done to the point where the amount of charges (or lack of them and too much contact if you adjust the sliders) isn't realistic by any means.

Again, it all has to do with Defensive IsoMotion. Basketball isn't as simple as Rock-Paper-Scissor. There are always defensive adjustments on the fly, and you just can't do that with Defensive IsoMotion.

At least we are in agreement it DEFINITELY needs work.

**Pared** · 10-29-2003, 12:42 PM

Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Virix said:It goes without question that Isomotion needs improvement, but it is by far the most realistic "cat and mouse" system in a game so far. I just wish it was a little more responsive.

<hr /></blockquote>

Most realistic in a "sports" game? I disagree. Baseball games will always have that edge not that Guess pitch and location features are everywhere.

Most realistic in a basketball game? I still disagree. I don't think any b-ball game does a great job of implementing the one on one. And I wouldn't call it "most realistic" at all. What other games have this "game in a game" feature? It's a great concept, by shoddily done to the point where the amount of charges (or lack of them and too much contact if you adjust the sliders) isn't realistic by any means.

Again, it all has to do with Defensive IsoMotion. Basketball isn't as simple as Rock-Paper-Scissor. There are always defensive adjustments on the fly, and you just can't do that with Defensive IsoMotion.

At least we are in agreement it DEFINITELY needs work.

Freestyle vs. Isomotion

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