Freestyle vs. Isomotion

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  • Pared
    Legen - WAIT FOR IT
    • Feb 2003
    • 39337

    #76
    Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
    Virix said:It goes without question that Isomotion needs improvement, but it is by far the most realistic "cat and mouse" system in a game so far. I just wish it was a little more responsive.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

    Most realistic in a "sports" game? I disagree. Baseball games will always have that edge not that Guess pitch and location features are everywhere.

    Most realistic in a basketball game? I still disagree. I don't think any b-ball game does a great job of implementing the one on one. And I wouldn't call it "most realistic" at all. What other games have this "game in a game" feature? It's a great concept, by shoddily done to the point where the amount of charges (or lack of them and too much contact if you adjust the sliders) isn't realistic by any means.

    Again, it all has to do with Defensive IsoMotion. Basketball isn't as simple as Rock-Paper-Scissor. There are always defensive adjustments on the fly, and you just can't do that with Defensive IsoMotion.

    At least we are in agreement it DEFINITELY needs work.
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    Comment

    • Virix
      MVP
      • Aug 2002
      • 1007

      #77
      Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
      Pared said:
      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
      Virix said:It goes without question that Isomotion needs improvement, but it is by far the most realistic "cat and mouse" system in a game so far. I just wish it was a little more responsive.

      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

      Most realistic in a "sports" game? I disagree. Baseball games will always have that edge not that Guess pitch and location features are everywhere.

      Most realistic in a basketball game? I still disagree. I don't think any b-ball game does a great job of implementing the one on one. And I wouldn't call it "most realistic" at all. What other games have this "game in a game" feature? It's a great concept, by shoddily done to the point where the amount of charges (or lack of them and too much contact if you adjust the sliders) isn't realistic by any means.

      Again, it all has to do with Defensive IsoMotion. Basketball isn't as simple as Rock-Paper-Scissor. There are always defensive adjustments on the fly, and you just can't do that with Defensive IsoMotion.

      At least we are in agreement it DEFINITELY needs work.

      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

      You really are reaching for things now. We ar talking about basketball games, not all sports games so what does a baseball game have to do with the conversation?

      I honestly think it is the most realistic system to date. Is it as realistic as can be? No, but it is much more realistic than what can be found in other games. In Live you dont have much risk vs reward when pulling off freestyle moves. You can go nuts on the stick and one of two things will happen. You will either get open, or you wont. You dont have to worry about a turnover nearly as much as you do in ESPN.

      In ESPN you really have to watch and have good reflexes, because although there arent nearly enough defensive isomotion moves, they do add another dimension without question. Ive spent the time needed to learn to use isomotion and can say it makes you think a bit more when the ball is in your hands. It can be improved upon, but after learning how to use it well, Im pretty impressed with it.

      If there was any risk vs reward in Live, I might agree with you simply because it controls better. Ive played Live online and people just go nuts with freestyle because, theres no risk. They get open or they just keep wiggling the stick... thats not basketball imo. Going to make a move, and needing to change your move because the defense was able to get into position in time is a more accurate representation of basketball imo.

      As I said before, its the most realistic system of any basketball game to this point. That doesnt mean its perfect, but it does mean that imo it is alot closer to realism than freestyle.

      That said, freestyle is great simply because of the control you have on the players and the ease of use. If they can get some kind of defensive system to counter all of the control offensive players have, it may actually be better than isomotion.

      Comment

      • Virix
        MVP
        • Aug 2002
        • 1007

        #78
        Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
        Pared said:
        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
        Virix said:It goes without question that Isomotion needs improvement, but it is by far the most realistic "cat and mouse" system in a game so far. I just wish it was a little more responsive.

        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

        Most realistic in a "sports" game? I disagree. Baseball games will always have that edge not that Guess pitch and location features are everywhere.

        Most realistic in a basketball game? I still disagree. I don't think any b-ball game does a great job of implementing the one on one. And I wouldn't call it "most realistic" at all. What other games have this "game in a game" feature? It's a great concept, by shoddily done to the point where the amount of charges (or lack of them and too much contact if you adjust the sliders) isn't realistic by any means.

        Again, it all has to do with Defensive IsoMotion. Basketball isn't as simple as Rock-Paper-Scissor. There are always defensive adjustments on the fly, and you just can't do that with Defensive IsoMotion.

        At least we are in agreement it DEFINITELY needs work.

        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

        You really are reaching for things now. We ar talking about basketball games, not all sports games so what does a baseball game have to do with the conversation?

        I honestly think it is the most realistic system to date. Is it as realistic as can be? No, but it is much more realistic than what can be found in other games. In Live you dont have much risk vs reward when pulling off freestyle moves. You can go nuts on the stick and one of two things will happen. You will either get open, or you wont. You dont have to worry about a turnover nearly as much as you do in ESPN.

        In ESPN you really have to watch and have good reflexes, because although there arent nearly enough defensive isomotion moves, they do add another dimension without question. Ive spent the time needed to learn to use isomotion and can say it makes you think a bit more when the ball is in your hands. It can be improved upon, but after learning how to use it well, Im pretty impressed with it.

        If there was any risk vs reward in Live, I might agree with you simply because it controls better. Ive played Live online and people just go nuts with freestyle because, theres no risk. They get open or they just keep wiggling the stick... thats not basketball imo. Going to make a move, and needing to change your move because the defense was able to get into position in time is a more accurate representation of basketball imo.

        As I said before, its the most realistic system of any basketball game to this point. That doesnt mean its perfect, but it does mean that imo it is alot closer to realism than freestyle.

        That said, freestyle is great simply because of the control you have on the players and the ease of use. If they can get some kind of defensive system to counter all of the control offensive players have, it may actually be better than isomotion.

        Comment

        • Virix
          MVP
          • Aug 2002
          • 1007

          #79
          Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
          Pared said:
          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
          Virix said:It goes without question that Isomotion needs improvement, but it is by far the most realistic "cat and mouse" system in a game so far. I just wish it was a little more responsive.

          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

          Most realistic in a "sports" game? I disagree. Baseball games will always have that edge not that Guess pitch and location features are everywhere.

          Most realistic in a basketball game? I still disagree. I don't think any b-ball game does a great job of implementing the one on one. And I wouldn't call it "most realistic" at all. What other games have this "game in a game" feature? It's a great concept, by shoddily done to the point where the amount of charges (or lack of them and too much contact if you adjust the sliders) isn't realistic by any means.

          Again, it all has to do with Defensive IsoMotion. Basketball isn't as simple as Rock-Paper-Scissor. There are always defensive adjustments on the fly, and you just can't do that with Defensive IsoMotion.

          At least we are in agreement it DEFINITELY needs work.

          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

          You really are reaching for things now. We ar talking about basketball games, not all sports games so what does a baseball game have to do with the conversation?

          I honestly think it is the most realistic system to date. Is it as realistic as can be? No, but it is much more realistic than what can be found in other games. In Live you dont have much risk vs reward when pulling off freestyle moves. You can go nuts on the stick and one of two things will happen. You will either get open, or you wont. You dont have to worry about a turnover nearly as much as you do in ESPN.

          In ESPN you really have to watch and have good reflexes, because although there arent nearly enough defensive isomotion moves, they do add another dimension without question. Ive spent the time needed to learn to use isomotion and can say it makes you think a bit more when the ball is in your hands. It can be improved upon, but after learning how to use it well, Im pretty impressed with it.

          If there was any risk vs reward in Live, I might agree with you simply because it controls better. Ive played Live online and people just go nuts with freestyle because, theres no risk. They get open or they just keep wiggling the stick... thats not basketball imo. Going to make a move, and needing to change your move because the defense was able to get into position in time is a more accurate representation of basketball imo.

          As I said before, its the most realistic system of any basketball game to this point. That doesnt mean its perfect, but it does mean that imo it is alot closer to realism than freestyle.

          That said, freestyle is great simply because of the control you have on the players and the ease of use. If they can get some kind of defensive system to counter all of the control offensive players have, it may actually be better than isomotion.

          Comment

          • bigeastbumrush
            My Momma's Son
            • Feb 2003
            • 19245

            #80
            Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

            Risk/Reward?

            My biggest problem with IsoMotion is that it disrupts the flow of the game. It's like a "routine". Even when you're cancelling out of it, it's still a "watch what I'm doing" kinda thing even for that moment.

            And, IMO, IsoMotion turns every play basically into an Isolation play.

            Whereas Freestyle is basic dribbling. You're basically doing it in the natuaral flow of the game. The natural flow of the play.

            Comment

            • bigeastbumrush
              My Momma's Son
              • Feb 2003
              • 19245

              #81
              Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

              Risk/Reward?

              My biggest problem with IsoMotion is that it disrupts the flow of the game. It's like a "routine". Even when you're cancelling out of it, it's still a "watch what I'm doing" kinda thing even for that moment.

              And, IMO, IsoMotion turns every play basically into an Isolation play.

              Whereas Freestyle is basic dribbling. You're basically doing it in the natuaral flow of the game. The natural flow of the play.

              Comment

              • bigeastbumrush
                My Momma's Son
                • Feb 2003
                • 19245

                #82
                Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

                Risk/Reward?

                My biggest problem with IsoMotion is that it disrupts the flow of the game. It's like a "routine". Even when you're cancelling out of it, it's still a "watch what I'm doing" kinda thing even for that moment.

                And, IMO, IsoMotion turns every play basically into an Isolation play.

                Whereas Freestyle is basic dribbling. You're basically doing it in the natuaral flow of the game. The natural flow of the play.

                Comment

                • Bredrin
                  Pro
                  • Sep 2002
                  • 507

                  #83
                  Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

                  Its really quite simple...

                  both are very different, isomotion is absolutely nothing like freestyle and vice versa. As a result, to make a comparison is discrediting both concepts for that they do well. First of all Lives freestyle isnt just about dribble moves and breaking ankles, its about having control of what your player does arm to arm with a basketball, something that adds a whole level of control in sports gaming. Anyone who has played this years game will have figured this out. Isomotion is a strategic way of looking at dribbling and faking your opponent. Its a "you go that way i go this way" strategy. From using this over the weekend, to me its just like a slightly more complicated game of rock paper scissors. Feels great when it works but until u master being able push the right buttons to to correspond with the intended move and quickly enough (button responsiveness pending) u will find the lack of control frustrating.

                  I personally dont like the idea of putting any sort of mini game of "cat and mouse" in a basketball game because it places way too much emphasis on one on one play. In the end, having a hit and miss game of chance does no credit to how good a player u use on the court or how much the gamer knows basketball but rather a test of quick button pressing reflexes. Its something i could defineatly live without even though many might find it entertaining. My opinion is that maybe it would have been great in all the other modes of the game, streetball, 21 and 24/7 but not suited for the knowledge and control that it should take to play a game of nba basketball.

                  I think freestyle is a better innovation.

                  Comment

                  • Bredrin
                    Pro
                    • Sep 2002
                    • 507

                    #84
                    Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

                    Its really quite simple...

                    both are very different, isomotion is absolutely nothing like freestyle and vice versa. As a result, to make a comparison is discrediting both concepts for that they do well. First of all Lives freestyle isnt just about dribble moves and breaking ankles, its about having control of what your player does arm to arm with a basketball, something that adds a whole level of control in sports gaming. Anyone who has played this years game will have figured this out. Isomotion is a strategic way of looking at dribbling and faking your opponent. Its a "you go that way i go this way" strategy. From using this over the weekend, to me its just like a slightly more complicated game of rock paper scissors. Feels great when it works but until u master being able push the right buttons to to correspond with the intended move and quickly enough (button responsiveness pending) u will find the lack of control frustrating.

                    I personally dont like the idea of putting any sort of mini game of "cat and mouse" in a basketball game because it places way too much emphasis on one on one play. In the end, having a hit and miss game of chance does no credit to how good a player u use on the court or how much the gamer knows basketball but rather a test of quick button pressing reflexes. Its something i could defineatly live without even though many might find it entertaining. My opinion is that maybe it would have been great in all the other modes of the game, streetball, 21 and 24/7 but not suited for the knowledge and control that it should take to play a game of nba basketball.

                    I think freestyle is a better innovation.

                    Comment

                    • Bredrin
                      Pro
                      • Sep 2002
                      • 507

                      #85
                      Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

                      Its really quite simple...

                      both are very different, isomotion is absolutely nothing like freestyle and vice versa. As a result, to make a comparison is discrediting both concepts for that they do well. First of all Lives freestyle isnt just about dribble moves and breaking ankles, its about having control of what your player does arm to arm with a basketball, something that adds a whole level of control in sports gaming. Anyone who has played this years game will have figured this out. Isomotion is a strategic way of looking at dribbling and faking your opponent. Its a "you go that way i go this way" strategy. From using this over the weekend, to me its just like a slightly more complicated game of rock paper scissors. Feels great when it works but until u master being able push the right buttons to to correspond with the intended move and quickly enough (button responsiveness pending) u will find the lack of control frustrating.

                      I personally dont like the idea of putting any sort of mini game of "cat and mouse" in a basketball game because it places way too much emphasis on one on one play. In the end, having a hit and miss game of chance does no credit to how good a player u use on the court or how much the gamer knows basketball but rather a test of quick button pressing reflexes. Its something i could defineatly live without even though many might find it entertaining. My opinion is that maybe it would have been great in all the other modes of the game, streetball, 21 and 24/7 but not suited for the knowledge and control that it should take to play a game of nba basketball.

                      I think freestyle is a better innovation.

                      Comment

                      • BlueDevilsFan
                        Rookie
                        • Oct 2002
                        • 443

                        #86
                        Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

                        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                        bigeastbumrush said:
                        Risk/Reward?

                        My biggest problem with IsoMotion is that it disrupts the flow of the game. It's like a "routine". Even when you're cancelling out of it, it's still a "watch what I'm doing" kinda thing even for that moment.

                        And, IMO, IsoMotion turns every play basically into an Isolation play.

                        Whereas Freestyle is basic dribbling. You're basically doing it in the natuaral flow of the game. The natural flow of the play.

                        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                        This is exactly what I was thinking....in Live freestyle control means being able to handle the ball. At times, you can perfect those handles to the point of crossing up your man. But I just as often use it 'ambiently' as I'm bringing the ball up the court, or as I stand on the perimeter waiting for a bigman to come and post up. In ESPN, it's exclusively a 1-on-1 isolation thing, with every move geared towards beating your defender. This, in itself, makes the feature 1-Dimensional.

                        One other thing is that with freestyle, there are so many different moves based on what state you are in. Triple threat. Standing dribbles. Moving dribbles. Post. Defense. Off-the-ball on offense. Every single one of these 'states' have their own set of moves.

                        So much deeper. So much better.

                        Comment

                        • BlueDevilsFan
                          Rookie
                          • Oct 2002
                          • 443

                          #87
                          Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

                          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                          bigeastbumrush said:
                          Risk/Reward?

                          My biggest problem with IsoMotion is that it disrupts the flow of the game. It's like a "routine". Even when you're cancelling out of it, it's still a "watch what I'm doing" kinda thing even for that moment.

                          And, IMO, IsoMotion turns every play basically into an Isolation play.

                          Whereas Freestyle is basic dribbling. You're basically doing it in the natuaral flow of the game. The natural flow of the play.

                          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                          This is exactly what I was thinking....in Live freestyle control means being able to handle the ball. At times, you can perfect those handles to the point of crossing up your man. But I just as often use it 'ambiently' as I'm bringing the ball up the court, or as I stand on the perimeter waiting for a bigman to come and post up. In ESPN, it's exclusively a 1-on-1 isolation thing, with every move geared towards beating your defender. This, in itself, makes the feature 1-Dimensional.

                          One other thing is that with freestyle, there are so many different moves based on what state you are in. Triple threat. Standing dribbles. Moving dribbles. Post. Defense. Off-the-ball on offense. Every single one of these 'states' have their own set of moves.

                          So much deeper. So much better.

                          Comment

                          • BlueDevilsFan
                            Rookie
                            • Oct 2002
                            • 443

                            #88
                            Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

                            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                            bigeastbumrush said:
                            Risk/Reward?

                            My biggest problem with IsoMotion is that it disrupts the flow of the game. It's like a "routine". Even when you're cancelling out of it, it's still a "watch what I'm doing" kinda thing even for that moment.

                            And, IMO, IsoMotion turns every play basically into an Isolation play.

                            Whereas Freestyle is basic dribbling. You're basically doing it in the natuaral flow of the game. The natural flow of the play.

                            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                            This is exactly what I was thinking....in Live freestyle control means being able to handle the ball. At times, you can perfect those handles to the point of crossing up your man. But I just as often use it 'ambiently' as I'm bringing the ball up the court, or as I stand on the perimeter waiting for a bigman to come and post up. In ESPN, it's exclusively a 1-on-1 isolation thing, with every move geared towards beating your defender. This, in itself, makes the feature 1-Dimensional.

                            One other thing is that with freestyle, there are so many different moves based on what state you are in. Triple threat. Standing dribbles. Moving dribbles. Post. Defense. Off-the-ball on offense. Every single one of these 'states' have their own set of moves.

                            So much deeper. So much better.

                            Comment

                            • howinthe
                              Rookie
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 118

                              #89
                              Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

                              I prefer Freestyle. Playing with triple threat is a blast. Once I receive the ball whether it be a big man or guard, I like to fake with freestyle. Then when the defender tries to steal, I go one way or spin the other way to the hooop.

                              I also like dribbling to the other side of the court. I like the move where I go to the other side with a slant and then when the defender comes, I move the stick left or right (opposite from the direction of the slant) and do a crossover that works most of the time. Then when he gets back on guard or someone else comes, I spin the other way.

                              Great Feature!

                              Comment

                              • howinthe
                                Rookie
                                • Sep 2003
                                • 118

                                #90
                                Re: Freestyle vs. Isomotion

                                I prefer Freestyle. Playing with triple threat is a blast. Once I receive the ball whether it be a big man or guard, I like to fake with freestyle. Then when the defender tries to steal, I go one way or spin the other way to the hooop.

                                I also like dribbling to the other side of the court. I like the move where I go to the other side with a slant and then when the defender comes, I move the stick left or right (opposite from the direction of the slant) and do a crossover that works most of the time. Then when he gets back on guard or someone else comes, I spin the other way.

                                Great Feature!

                                Comment

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