NBA LIVE...as a sim?

[ludacris06]

Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

Comebacks are realistic, but when you start missing wide open dunks several times, somthing isn't right. EA needs to spend alot more time beefing up the AI. Everything else is good, but the cheapness the AI uses is really hurting the replay value.

If you decide to still play Live, I suggest you put your shot blockers on the three point threats, play 3-2 zone, and waste the clock. (You might as well waste it because the chances of you making a shot when the CPU goes on a run is low) If you can't control it, call timeouts when the CPU starts getting on small runs like 2-3 or 4-2.

If that doesn't work, trade NBA Live in for ESPN or Grand Theft Auto.

[Ofizzle]

Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

Running the clock does not seem to be the solution as it puts you into the position where if you get too deep into the clock, you're forced to put up a bad shot

How about addressing what it is I'm talking about, where even clear cut breakaway jams wind up clunking out, while the CPU makes everything and absolutely nothing works to the favor of the player vs the CPU?

Can you let me know exactly what you mean by "break the momentum"? Can you let me in on what types of shots that you look to create? Given that I've tried various approaches to addressing the same problem; work the ball inside, work the mid-range, push the ball upcourt on the break, focus on slowing down and running quality offensive sets in the halfcourt, look to offensive sets that have been working, change up the offensive sets altogether, focus on getting star players the ball, focus on getting hot players the ball in positions from where they have been hot, focus on sharing the ball with players who haven't been as involved in the offense in order to use 'surprise' when the CPU looks to double or pressure my star or hot players, etc., etc. Yet, strangely, none of these approaches seems to "break the momentum", I must be missing something

Please let me know your approach in these "momentum" situations, I'm enormously interested in hearing your response..............

I've seriously not experienced this, I've missed layups, but in my whole time playing I've missed about 2 dunks. I just run a play, get the clock to about 10 seconds, then look for a shot.

If I have a big man I'll go to him down low, and if I have a SG, I'll drive and try to get a mid-range jumper from about the freethrow line or draw a foul.

I don't know??

Taking smart shots and calling timeouts is all I can think of, and also if oyur players are tired it doesn't help either.

[Ofizzle]

Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

Running the clock does not seem to be the solution as it puts you into the position where if you get too deep into the clock, you're forced to put up a bad shot

How about addressing what it is I'm talking about, where even clear cut breakaway jams wind up clunking out, while the CPU makes everything and absolutely nothing works to the favor of the player vs the CPU?

Can you let me know exactly what you mean by "break the momentum"? Can you let me in on what types of shots that you look to create? Given that I've tried various approaches to addressing the same problem; work the ball inside, work the mid-range, push the ball upcourt on the break, focus on slowing down and running quality offensive sets in the halfcourt, look to offensive sets that have been working, change up the offensive sets altogether, focus on getting star players the ball, focus on getting hot players the ball in positions from where they have been hot, focus on sharing the ball with players who haven't been as involved in the offense in order to use 'surprise' when the CPU looks to double or pressure my star or hot players, etc., etc. Yet, strangely, none of these approaches seems to "break the momentum", I must be missing something

Please let me know your approach in these "momentum" situations, I'm enormously interested in hearing your response..............

I've seriously not experienced this, I've missed layups, but in my whole time playing I've missed about 2 dunks. I just run a play, get the clock to about 10 seconds, then look for a shot.

If I have a big man I'll go to him down low, and if I have a SG, I'll drive and try to get a mid-range jumper from about the freethrow line or draw a foul.

I don't know??

Taking smart shots and calling timeouts is all I can think of, and also if oyur players are tired it doesn't help either.

[RubenDouglas]

Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

the only type of comeback AI ive seen is when the CPu starts making 3 pt. shots in the 4th, when theyve been missing all game... They hit like 3 or 4 contested jumpers and i just wonder..

I think the comeback AI isnt so bad.. not as bad as years previous... there taking good positive strides with what there doing yearly.

[RubenDouglas]

Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

the only type of comeback AI ive seen is when the CPu starts making 3 pt. shots in the 4th, when theyve been missing all game... They hit like 3 or 4 contested jumpers and i just wonder..

I think the comeback AI isnt so bad.. not as bad as years previous... there taking good positive strides with what there doing yearly.

[HMcCoy]

Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

Running the clock does not seem to be the solution as it puts you into the position where if you get too deep into the clock, you're forced to put up a bad shot

How about addressing what it is I'm talking about, where even clear cut breakaway jams wind up clunking out, while the CPU makes everything and absolutely nothing works to the favor of the player vs the CPU?

Can you let me know exactly what you mean by "break the momentum"? Can you let me in on what types of shots that you look to create? Given that I've tried various approaches to addressing the same problem; work the ball inside, work the mid-range, push the ball upcourt on the break, focus on slowing down and running quality offensive sets in the halfcourt, look to offensive sets that have been working, change up the offensive sets altogether, focus on getting star players the ball, focus on getting hot players the ball in positions from where they have been hot, focus on sharing the ball with players who haven't been as involved in the offense in order to use 'surprise' when the CPU looks to double or pressure my star or hot players, etc., etc. Yet, strangely, none of these approaches seems to "break the momentum", I must be missing something

Please let me know your approach in these "momentum" situations, I'm enormously interested in hearing your response..............

The thing is, when the CPU momentum gets going, it gets very, very difficult to get a good looking shot. The CPU plays the passing lanes better, and they play stiffer D. Sometimes, even if you are finally able to wrestle your offense into a good shot opportunity, you will still inexplicably clank that bastid'...LOL...thats frustrating.

However, good shots may not go down at the % they're supposed to, but it WON'T..I repeat, WON'T continue to happen. If youre able to get 2-3 GOOD shots in a row(difficult task since jumpers do not count as good shots when the CPU is rollin') ...one of them will fall, breaking the momentum. Again don't try a jumper, even if its wide open...its useless, they won't fall. Period. Try to get to the line, create contact, and above all..BURN THOSE TIMEOUTS!!!

Keep in mind, any player that gets 2-3 unanswered buckets, boards or blocks, will get hot(pulsing icon)...If your team is cold, the CPU may end up having 2 or 3 HOT guys on the floor at one time, except you can't see their "hotness"...the CPU "heat" doesn't show on its player icon like yours does..but still, making a bucket douses that fire.

As a last ditch, run clock, and vow to stop them. Harrass them full court, smother the ball handler, attempt steals, evrything in the defensive playbook....If you're ice-cold on the offensive end, you can survive if you prevent THEM from scoring as well. Their heat will run out after a few minutes, trust me.

This is probably the most challenging part of NBA Live...scratching out offense and trying your best to stem the tide when the CPU gets hyped.

[HMcCoy]

Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

Running the clock does not seem to be the solution as it puts you into the position where if you get too deep into the clock, you're forced to put up a bad shot

How about addressing what it is I'm talking about, where even clear cut breakaway jams wind up clunking out, while the CPU makes everything and absolutely nothing works to the favor of the player vs the CPU?

Can you let me know exactly what you mean by "break the momentum"? Can you let me in on what types of shots that you look to create? Given that I've tried various approaches to addressing the same problem; work the ball inside, work the mid-range, push the ball upcourt on the break, focus on slowing down and running quality offensive sets in the halfcourt, look to offensive sets that have been working, change up the offensive sets altogether, focus on getting star players the ball, focus on getting hot players the ball in positions from where they have been hot, focus on sharing the ball with players who haven't been as involved in the offense in order to use 'surprise' when the CPU looks to double or pressure my star or hot players, etc., etc. Yet, strangely, none of these approaches seems to "break the momentum", I must be missing something

Please let me know your approach in these "momentum" situations, I'm enormously interested in hearing your response..............

The thing is, when the CPU momentum gets going, it gets very, very difficult to get a good looking shot. The CPU plays the passing lanes better, and they play stiffer D. Sometimes, even if you are finally able to wrestle your offense into a good shot opportunity, you will still inexplicably clank that bastid'...LOL...thats frustrating.

However, good shots may not go down at the % they're supposed to, but it WON'T..I repeat, WON'T continue to happen. If youre able to get 2-3 GOOD shots in a row(difficult task since jumpers do not count as good shots when the CPU is rollin') ...one of them will fall, breaking the momentum. Again don't try a jumper, even if its wide open...its useless, they won't fall. Period. Try to get to the line, create contact, and above all..BURN THOSE TIMEOUTS!!!

Keep in mind, any player that gets 2-3 unanswered buckets, boards or blocks, will get hot(pulsing icon)...If your team is cold, the CPU may end up having 2 or 3 HOT guys on the floor at one time, except you can't see their "hotness"...the CPU "heat" doesn't show on its player icon like yours does..but still, making a bucket douses that fire.

As a last ditch, run clock, and vow to stop them. Harrass them full court, smother the ball handler, attempt steals, evrything in the defensive playbook....If you're ice-cold on the offensive end, you can survive if you prevent THEM from scoring as well. Their heat will run out after a few minutes, trust me.

This is probably the most challenging part of NBA Live...scratching out offense and trying your best to stem the tide when the CPU gets hyped.

[Ofizzle]

Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

I like it, the momentum thing the CPU gets, many times I also switch defensive matchups and get a taller man on their perimeter players, so they can't shoot over them, and then I have their crappy players be forced to take shots .

[Ofizzle]

Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

I like it, the momentum thing the CPU gets, many times I also switch defensive matchups and get a taller man on their perimeter players, so they can't shoot over them, and then I have their crappy players be forced to take shots .

[HMcCoy]

Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

I like it, the momentum thing the CPU gets, many times I also switch defensive matchups and get a taller man on their perimeter players, so they can't shoot over them, and then I have their crappy players be forced to take shots .

Damn, thats good stategy.

[HMcCoy]

Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

I like it, the momentum thing the CPU gets, many times I also switch defensive matchups and get a taller man on their perimeter players, so they can't shoot over them, and then I have their crappy players be forced to take shots .

Damn, thats good stategy.

[KBomber]

Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

The thing is, when the CPU momentum gets going, it gets very, very difficult to get a good looking shot. The CPU plays the passing lanes better, and they play stiffer D. Sometimes, even if you are finally able to wrestle your offense into a good shot opportunity, you will still inexplicably clank that bastid'...LOL...thats frustrating.

However, good shots may not go down at the % they're supposed to, but it WON'T..I repeat, WON'T continue to happen. If youre able to get 2-3 GOOD shots in a row(difficult task since jumpers do not count as good shots when the CPU is rollin') ...one of them will fall, breaking the momentum. Again don't try a jumper, even if its wide open...its useless, they won't fall. Period. Try to get to the line, create contact, and above all..BURN THOSE TIMEOUTS!!!

Keep in mind, any player that gets 2-3 unanswered buckets, boards or blocks, will get hot(pulsing icon)...If your team is cold, the CPU may end up having 2 or 3 HOT guys on the floor at one time, except you can't see their "hotness"...the CPU "heat" doesn't show on its player icon like yours does..but still, making a bucket douses that fire.

As a last ditch, run clock, and vow to stop them. Harrass them full court, smother the ball handler, attempt steals, evrything in the defensive playbook....If you're ice-cold on the offensive end, you can survive if you prevent THEM from scoring as well. Their heat will run out after a few minutes, trust me.

This is probably the most challenging part of NBA Live...scratching out offense and trying your best to stem the tide when the CPU gets hyped.

You've just described what I've been doing.

I'll try "vowing", though -- maybe a blood pact. Is there a cermony involved that you'd suggest? Although last night I found that getting up 23 points on the Knicks and then holding on for dear life to win by 10 seemed to work out okay

In the end though the FG% were way off kilter as I finished shooting 0.519 and the CPU shot something like 0.478. If you watch, the CPU is always in range of your shooting percentage, whether good or bad, which suggests that some sort of coding is included in the game to make sure things stay tight

KBomber, sounds like you're describing poor A.I. ,which is prevalant in Madden. The comebacks I've seen the computer pull off in Madden (and the plays they make, and the frequency of them), aggravates me because of how fake it feels. I would do some slider adjustments, as this seems to help a lot in some cases, but never really takes the prob. completely away.

I think this is a little more true to the problem. It is a programming issue from what I've seen, and understand, I'm not adverse to losing, but when things are happening that are outside the realm of what makes realistic sense, it cheapens the experience

I'm going to stick to my original comment that this game lacks some of the fundamental AI that would elevate it to a true sim in my mind. That's not simply related to the comeback AI, but also in how the teams execute their offensive/defensive sets. Look at what you're seeing and really break it down and the ten man mo-cap still hides what is actually happening in a very clever way.

I'm still very entertained by the title, but it's a basketball videogame as opposed to a straight basketball sim. ESPN has its own issues, but even with those the way the game breaks down is more simulative in the feel, but the stats will sometimes be askew

Somewhere right down the middle of these two games, and I think both are excellent but just missing those last finishing touches that take them into that new realm of simulation that all of us are looking for, is where these games need to get to. The feel and pacing of the 2K series, the control of Live, 2K's focus on running sets, Live's extras and mini-games

I don't want much, just perfection

I'm hoping we get closer with College Hoops in about three weeks time............

[KBomber]

Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

The thing is, when the CPU momentum gets going, it gets very, very difficult to get a good looking shot. The CPU plays the passing lanes better, and they play stiffer D. Sometimes, even if you are finally able to wrestle your offense into a good shot opportunity, you will still inexplicably clank that bastid'...LOL...thats frustrating.

However, good shots may not go down at the % they're supposed to, but it WON'T..I repeat, WON'T continue to happen. If youre able to get 2-3 GOOD shots in a row(difficult task since jumpers do not count as good shots when the CPU is rollin') ...one of them will fall, breaking the momentum. Again don't try a jumper, even if its wide open...its useless, they won't fall. Period. Try to get to the line, create contact, and above all..BURN THOSE TIMEOUTS!!!

Keep in mind, any player that gets 2-3 unanswered buckets, boards or blocks, will get hot(pulsing icon)...If your team is cold, the CPU may end up having 2 or 3 HOT guys on the floor at one time, except you can't see their "hotness"...the CPU "heat" doesn't show on its player icon like yours does..but still, making a bucket douses that fire.

As a last ditch, run clock, and vow to stop them. Harrass them full court, smother the ball handler, attempt steals, evrything in the defensive playbook....If you're ice-cold on the offensive end, you can survive if you prevent THEM from scoring as well. Their heat will run out after a few minutes, trust me.

This is probably the most challenging part of NBA Live...scratching out offense and trying your best to stem the tide when the CPU gets hyped.

You've just described what I've been doing.

I'll try "vowing", though -- maybe a blood pact. Is there a cermony involved that you'd suggest? Although last night I found that getting up 23 points on the Knicks and then holding on for dear life to win by 10 seemed to work out okay

In the end though the FG% were way off kilter as I finished shooting 0.519 and the CPU shot something like 0.478. If you watch, the CPU is always in range of your shooting percentage, whether good or bad, which suggests that some sort of coding is included in the game to make sure things stay tight

KBomber, sounds like you're describing poor A.I. ,which is prevalant in Madden. The comebacks I've seen the computer pull off in Madden (and the plays they make, and the frequency of them), aggravates me because of how fake it feels. I would do some slider adjustments, as this seems to help a lot in some cases, but never really takes the prob. completely away.

I think this is a little more true to the problem. It is a programming issue from what I've seen, and understand, I'm not adverse to losing, but when things are happening that are outside the realm of what makes realistic sense, it cheapens the experience

I'm going to stick to my original comment that this game lacks some of the fundamental AI that would elevate it to a true sim in my mind. That's not simply related to the comeback AI, but also in how the teams execute their offensive/defensive sets. Look at what you're seeing and really break it down and the ten man mo-cap still hides what is actually happening in a very clever way.

I'm still very entertained by the title, but it's a basketball videogame as opposed to a straight basketball sim. ESPN has its own issues, but even with those the way the game breaks down is more simulative in the feel, but the stats will sometimes be askew

Somewhere right down the middle of these two games, and I think both are excellent but just missing those last finishing touches that take them into that new realm of simulation that all of us are looking for, is where these games need to get to. The feel and pacing of the 2K series, the control of Live, 2K's focus on running sets, Live's extras and mini-games

I don't want much, just perfection

I'm hoping we get closer with College Hoops in about three weeks time............

[coyote22]

Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

I agree with a lot of things you guys say. NBA Live is still not a sim in this respect, as Madden 2005 (although a nice representation of the sport) is still not a football sim and let's not get started on NHL or FIFA, which are even worse IMO.

I'm definitely not an EA advocate, but I'm sort of seeing what they try to do with the momentum factor in a game. The problem is that precisely this aspect in sports is so darn hard to simulate. Are you going for some sort of momentum in a game, (teams get hot and cold) or are you just going by ratings?

If you go by ratings, which was the case 7-10 years ago, players start crushing the CPU by 20 points when they know how to beat it.

If you use momentum shifts, many other problems occur, as we are seeing at the moment. As things stand now, we have to put up with an AI which comes back at times when it shouldnt and 5-10 ft jumpers not going in when you're cold.

This is downright unrealistic and takes a lot of enjoyment away from the game.

Again, momentum IS hard to simulate, but it's a matter that SHOULD be looked into again by EA, at least if they are striving to create a true sim on the long run. Let's hope they don't go for new moves, fancy dribbles, how to make the all star weekend more flashy and such next year.

Even all the new gameplay improvements lead to nothing if this matter doesnt get sorted out. Realism is whats its about for most sports gamers, and it is time EA starts realizing this.

[coyote22]

Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

I agree with a lot of things you guys say. NBA Live is still not a sim in this respect, as Madden 2005 (although a nice representation of the sport) is still not a football sim and let's not get started on NHL or FIFA, which are even worse IMO.

I'm definitely not an EA advocate, but I'm sort of seeing what they try to do with the momentum factor in a game. The problem is that precisely this aspect in sports is so darn hard to simulate. Are you going for some sort of momentum in a game, (teams get hot and cold) or are you just going by ratings?

If you go by ratings, which was the case 7-10 years ago, players start crushing the CPU by 20 points when they know how to beat it.

If you use momentum shifts, many other problems occur, as we are seeing at the moment. As things stand now, we have to put up with an AI which comes back at times when it shouldnt and 5-10 ft jumpers not going in when you're cold.

This is downright unrealistic and takes a lot of enjoyment away from the game.

Again, momentum IS hard to simulate, but it's a matter that SHOULD be looked into again by EA, at least if they are striving to create a true sim on the long run. Let's hope they don't go for new moves, fancy dribbles, how to make the all star weekend more flashy and such next year.

Even all the new gameplay improvements lead to nothing if this matter doesnt get sorted out. Realism is whats its about for most sports gamers, and it is time EA starts realizing this.