NBA LIVE...as a sim?

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  • Aikman08
    Rookie
    • Sep 2004
    • 157

    #76
    Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

    Originally posted by coyote22
    I agree with a lot of things you guys say. NBA Live is still not a sim in this respect, as Madden 2005 (although a nice representation of the sport) is still not a football sim and let's not get started on NHL or FIFA, which are even worse IMO.

    I'm definitely not an EA advocate, but I'm sort of seeing what they try to do with the momentum factor in a game. The problem is that precisely this aspect in sports is so darn hard to simulate. Are you going for some sort of momentum in a game, (teams get hot and cold) or are you just going by ratings?

    If you go by ratings, which was the case 7-10 years ago, players start crushing the CPU by 20 points when they know how to beat it.

    If you use momentum shifts, many other problems occur, as we are seeing at the moment. As things stand now, we have to put up with an AI which comes back at times when it shouldnt and 5-10 ft jumpers not going in when you're cold.

    This is downright unrealistic and takes a lot of enjoyment away from the game.

    Again, momentum IS hard to simulate, but it's a matter that SHOULD be looked into again by EA, at least if they are striving to create a true sim on the long run. Let's hope they don't go for new moves, fancy dribbles, how to make the all star weekend more flashy and such next year.

    Even all the new gameplay improvements lead to nothing if this matter doesnt get sorted out. Realism is whats its about for most sports gamers, and it is time EA starts realizing this.
    You make great points that I agree with. Unfortunately, I think EA is leaning toward the flash (at the expense of realism) way too much. I used to think realism was what almost all sports gamers were looking for. But if you see some of the peoples crazy reactions when you dare to point out things that make it feel fake, it makes you wonder if the majority of sports gamers are in to the flash more than realism. Maybe EA is just catering to this. It might be just an age thing. I've been buying these EA sports titles for about 10-12 years, and maybe you just tire of the feel of the games. But, it certainly seems like EA is at least capable of fixing this A.I. stuff, but chooses not to.

    Comment

    • Aikman08
      Rookie
      • Sep 2004
      • 157

      #77
      Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

      Originally posted by coyote22
      I agree with a lot of things you guys say. NBA Live is still not a sim in this respect, as Madden 2005 (although a nice representation of the sport) is still not a football sim and let's not get started on NHL or FIFA, which are even worse IMO.

      I'm definitely not an EA advocate, but I'm sort of seeing what they try to do with the momentum factor in a game. The problem is that precisely this aspect in sports is so darn hard to simulate. Are you going for some sort of momentum in a game, (teams get hot and cold) or are you just going by ratings?

      If you go by ratings, which was the case 7-10 years ago, players start crushing the CPU by 20 points when they know how to beat it.

      If you use momentum shifts, many other problems occur, as we are seeing at the moment. As things stand now, we have to put up with an AI which comes back at times when it shouldnt and 5-10 ft jumpers not going in when you're cold.

      This is downright unrealistic and takes a lot of enjoyment away from the game.

      Again, momentum IS hard to simulate, but it's a matter that SHOULD be looked into again by EA, at least if they are striving to create a true sim on the long run. Let's hope they don't go for new moves, fancy dribbles, how to make the all star weekend more flashy and such next year.

      Even all the new gameplay improvements lead to nothing if this matter doesnt get sorted out. Realism is whats its about for most sports gamers, and it is time EA starts realizing this.
      You make great points that I agree with. Unfortunately, I think EA is leaning toward the flash (at the expense of realism) way too much. I used to think realism was what almost all sports gamers were looking for. But if you see some of the peoples crazy reactions when you dare to point out things that make it feel fake, it makes you wonder if the majority of sports gamers are in to the flash more than realism. Maybe EA is just catering to this. It might be just an age thing. I've been buying these EA sports titles for about 10-12 years, and maybe you just tire of the feel of the games. But, it certainly seems like EA is at least capable of fixing this A.I. stuff, but chooses not to.

      Comment

      • Eurodawg
        Banned
        • Jul 2004
        • 308

        #78
        Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

        He hasn't replied if he got those results with edited roster and sliders adjustment

        Comment

        • Eurodawg
          Banned
          • Jul 2004
          • 308

          #79
          Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

          He hasn't replied if he got those results with edited roster and sliders adjustment

          Comment

          • HMcCoy
            All Star
            • Jan 2003
            • 8212

            #80
            Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

            Good points KBomb...

            Perhaps ESPN is on the right track with "biorythm". If EA Canada could "borrow" and flesh out the bioryrhm system, and tie it in with an overall team momentum component, you'd have mo-swings that aren't as predictable and regimented.

            Some NBA guys just give up after a big deficit, depends on the players heart...also, some players can "lead" their weaker-minded teammates. Again VC has already begun to address these things, (mental ratings in NFL2k5) and IMO, will prolly be the first ones to lock it down.

            If someone could combine a complex individual momentum model along with tendacy sliders, you'd have the next evolution of sports-game AI. Hell, you'd have the next evolution of game AI period...Imagine a FPS, where the AI bots performed better or worse depending on how well YOU'RE doing (IE, how many kills you rack between re-spawns). That would be hot.
            Last edited by HMcCoy; 10-20-2004, 01:28 AM.
            Hank's Custom Collectibles 3D printer/painter extraordinaire

            Comment

            • HMcCoy
              All Star
              • Jan 2003
              • 8212

              #81
              Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

              Good points KBomb...

              Perhaps ESPN is on the right track with "biorythm". If EA Canada could "borrow" and flesh out the bioryrhm system, and tie it in with an overall team momentum component, you'd have mo-swings that aren't as predictable and regimented.

              Some NBA guys just give up after a big deficit, depends on the players heart...also, some players can "lead" their weaker-minded teammates. Again VC has already begun to address these things, (mental ratings in NFL2k5) and IMO, will prolly be the first ones to lock it down.

              If someone could combine a complex individual momentum model along with tendacy sliders, you'd have the next evolution of sports-game AI. Hell, you'd have the next evolution of game AI period...Imagine a FPS, where the AI bots performed better or worse depending on how well YOU'RE doing (IE, how many kills you rack between re-spawns). That would be hot.
              Hank's Custom Collectibles 3D printer/painter extraordinaire

              Comment

              • coyote22
                Rookie
                • Oct 2004
                • 9

                #82
                Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

                Originally posted by HMcCoy
                If someone could combine a complex individual momentum model along with tendacy sliders, you'd have the next evolution of sports-game AI.
                yeah that would be awesome. Might take a while to figure this out though. In the meantime, developers like EA should concentrate on team momentum, something that is hard enough in itself to simulate.

                Comment

                • coyote22
                  Rookie
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 9

                  #83
                  Re: NBA LIVE...as a sim?

                  Originally posted by HMcCoy
                  If someone could combine a complex individual momentum model along with tendacy sliders, you'd have the next evolution of sports-game AI.
                  yeah that would be awesome. Might take a while to figure this out though. In the meantime, developers like EA should concentrate on team momentum, something that is hard enough in itself to simulate.

                  Comment

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