Has EA finally given this series an identity?

[coolcras7]

Re: Has EA finally given this series an identity?

What makes you feel like your playing with the Lakers? What makes you feel like you're playing a real game?

If I am controlling players that look feel and play like the Lakers, I need to know that when I take a shot with Kobe that it looks and feels like it's Kobe from his actions before the shot to what happens after he releases the shot I need to see the players act like the do in real like, rebound like they do in real life move around like they do in real life, dribble like they do from their basic dribble moves to player specific moves, I don't want players jumping from the free throw line or flooting and I don't want every team to play the same, like I said I buy NBA games to relive those games I saw on TV if Elite can't do that this year whats the point of having the NBA logo on the game.

[Young Murder]

Re: Has EA finally given this series an identity?

If I am controlling players that look feel and play like the Lakers, I need to know that when I take a shot with Kobe that it looks and feels like it's Kobe from his actions before the shot to what happens after he releases the shot I need to see the players act like the do in real like, rebound like they do in real life move around like they do in real life, dribble like they do from their basic dribble moves to player specific moves, I don't want players jumping from the free throw line or flooting and I don't want every team to play the same, like I said I buy NBA games to relive those games I saw on TV if Elite can't do that this year whats the point of having the NBA logo on the game.

I want to create wow moments in the game with out being locked in a animation with RTP to determine how animations look so they never look the same.

In this video look at the physical parts when contact is made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFj0KUzofNg

In real life nothing never look same and I feel like this is what EA is trying to create and I know its not going to happen this year but if they stick to it it will get there.

In the 2k11 9 min Heat vs Suns at 4:00 mark the same animation happen twice and the user was locked in until it played out. It was (Joel Anthony and S. Nash) and (Bron and Nash) they both lost control and got the ball back Anthony passed and Bron shot a fadeaway. My question to you is would you rather have control over that situation or watch it play out?

[coolcras7]

Re: Has EA finally given this series an identity?

I want to create wow moments in the game with out being locked in a animation with RTP to determine how animations look so they never look the same.

In this video look at the physical parts when contact is made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFj0KUzofNg

In real life nothing never look same and I feel like this is what EA is trying to create and I know its not going to happen this year but if they stick to it it will get there.

In the 2k11 9 min Heat vs Suns at 4:00 mark the same animation happen twice and the user was locked in until it played out. It was (Joel Anthony and S. Nash) and (Bron and Nash) they both lost control and got the ball back Anthony passed and Bron shot a fadeaway. My question to you is would you rather have control over that situation or watch it play out?

You seem to locked on to the new it word of the year from EA and refuse to see the limitations in their RTP system is not what you think it is even the developers said it, and there is no canned animation in the other game so every animation can be broken I know this because they said so, and since it was written it must be true, like I have said many times EA should have keep this in development for a few years and just improved on Live 10 and come out swinging in 2012.

blackflash83
NBA Live Community Manager

OVR: 11
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 106

Re: They love Real time physics in the NHL 11 demo
You guys also have to remember that the complexity of the physics engines seen in games like GTA IV, Red Dead Redemption and Backbreaker took years of development to implement. The systems used in those games CANNOT be done in one sports game development cycle. It would be awesome but due to time constraints it's definitely not possible.

With ELITE 11, the game team have laid down a solid foundation where physics are driving the gameplay without the use of canned animations. Over the years they will be able to add onto the physics engine and make a number of improvements that you see in other sports games that are driven by physics.

[PRAY IV M3RCY]

Re: Has EA finally given this series an identity?

People is so stuck on looks to the point where the gameplay don't even matter no more.

what exactly is gameplay to you guys, because i feel a whole lot of things tie into gameplay. Sure animations are not at the top of importance, but they do ad to the gameplay. If people complained alot about the boozer dunk from near the free throw line, part of the problem was the dunk chosen at the time, which is an animation. Animations make up alot of the gameplay, but its not the only aspect. Part of gameplay is control aswell, and i understand that but you sure are dumbing down animations as if they dont mean anything

[Young Murder]

Re: Has EA finally given this series an identity?

So animations determine the distance a player jump from?

[PRAY IV M3RCY]

Re: Has EA finally given this series an identity?

So animations determine the distance a player jump from?

the animation the game chose, was at the wrong time, and it didnt relate to where the player was, and the situation he was in.

[PRAY IV M3RCY]

Re: Has EA finally given this series an identity?

actually the addition of more animations is what has made nba games today look better than games in the past. Looking at elite, sure it may give you more control, but it is certainly loking like an nba game that was made back in 03 or 02, with the limited amount of variation in its animations. if you didnt tell me this game had real time physics, i wouldnt have noticed

[Young Murder]

Re: Has EA finally given this series an identity?

rEAnimator
NBA Elite Developer

OVR: 23
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 371
Re: Ask the devs : Physics
I posted the following in a different thread in response to questions about sim vs. arcade and how to categorize Elite.

I thought it best to move the discussion to this thread as it really goes to the heart of why we chose to move to using physics this year.

---

If you'll indulge me, I'd like to throw out an observation I've made and see what people think.

I think we can all agree that a game like NBA Street or NBA Jam are arcade basketball games. They bend the rules of the game and bend the rules of physics to deliver a more over the top experience. And as you pointed out, games like these tend to have a high pace as well.

For me, Elite and Live are both basketball sim games. But they approach the sim experience from very different places.

I see them living on a spectrum.

On the left hand side you've got yourself in real life playing as a basketball player in the NBA.

On the far right you've got yourself watching an NBA game on TV.

If you were to write a basketball simulation, you could start on either end of that spectrum.

Do you recreate the outcomes you see on television using statistics and probabilities, and then present those outcomes by playing back appropriate animations that were captured in a mocap studio?

Or do you try and recreate the physics of everything involved in the simulation to the most tiny detail?

As you move from pure simulation to a video game, you move from either the left or the right towards a middle ground.

Coming from the right hand side, you start to allow the user to interact with the simulation by calling the plays, making the substitutions, maybe telling players when to perform certain actions. The players are still themselves, performing the actions as they see fit, but they are taking direction from the user.

Coming from the left hand side, they allow the user to manipulate the physical objects in the simulation. Moving the legs and arms like a marionette. You have the physical capabilities of the person you are controlling, but you have complete control over what happens.

Obviously neither of these examples exist in real life, but I think they help paint a picture of the spectrum I see the games lying on. I think both games are sim games, what what they are simulating and how they simulate it are different.

You can probably guess that in my opinion, Live is more to the right on that spectrum, and Elite is more to the left on the spectrum.

Neither game is arcade, and neither game is "more sim" than the other.

It's just that their priorities and how they decide to simulate the world of basketball is different.

This year we're focusing more on controls and simulating the physics of the world. That's what makes Elite unique and that much more different from Live.

So when you watch videos, you may think Live "looks more realistic", but don't be fooled by the beauty of a perfectly mocapped two player animation.

There's a lot more going on under the hood when you're simulating the physics, and I'd personally take a dynamic physically simulated game with great controls but a few visual warts, over a picture perfect two player animation based game that has less responsive controls and fewer outcomes.

But this is all just my personal take on things.

I'd love to hear what others think.

[coolcras7]

Re: Has EA finally given this series an identity?

rEAnimator
NBA Elite Developer

OVR: 23
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 371
Re: Ask the devs : Physics
I posted the following in a different thread in response to questions about sim vs. arcade and how to categorize Elite.

I thought it best to move the discussion to this thread as it really goes to the heart of why we chose to move to using physics this year.

---

If you'll indulge me, I'd like to throw out an observation I've made and see what people think.

I think we can all agree that a game like NBA Street or NBA Jam are arcade basketball games. They bend the rules of the game and bend the rules of physics to deliver a more over the top experience. And as you pointed out, games like these tend to have a high pace as well.

For me, Elite and Live are both basketball sim games. But they approach the sim experience from very different places.

I see them living on a spectrum.

On the left hand side you've got yourself in real life playing as a basketball player in the NBA.

On the far right you've got yourself watching an NBA game on TV.

If you were to write a basketball simulation, you could start on either end of that spectrum.

Do you recreate the outcomes you see on television using statistics and probabilities, and then present those outcomes by playing back appropriate animations that were captured in a mocap studio?

Or do you try and recreate the physics of everything involved in the simulation to the most tiny detail?

As you move from pure simulation to a video game, you move from either the left or the right towards a middle ground.

Coming from the right hand side, you start to allow the user to interact with the simulation by calling the plays, making the substitutions, maybe telling players when to perform certain actions. The players are still themselves, performing the actions as they see fit, but they are taking direction from the user.

Coming from the left hand side, they allow the user to manipulate the physical objects in the simulation. Moving the legs and arms like a marionette. You have the physical capabilities of the person you are controlling, but you have complete control over what happens.

Obviously neither of these examples exist in real life, but I think they help paint a picture of the spectrum I see the games lying on. I think both games are sim games, what what they are simulating and how they simulate it are different.

You can probably guess that in my opinion, Live is more to the right on that spectrum, and Elite is more to the left on the spectrum.

Neither game is arcade, and neither game is "more sim" than the other.

It's just that their priorities and how they decide to simulate the world of basketball is different.

This year we're focusing more on controls and simulating the physics of the world. That's what makes Elite unique and that much more different from Live.

So when you watch videos, you may think Live "looks more realistic", but don't be fooled by the beauty of a perfectly mocapped two player animation.

There's a lot more going on under the hood when you're simulating the physics, and I'd personally take a dynamic physically simulated game with great controls but a few visual warts, over a picture perfect two player animation based game that has less responsive controls and fewer outcomes.

But this is all just my personal take on things.

I'd love to hear what others think.

So Boozer/Artest/Kobe jumping from the free throw line in traffic is sim and not bending the rules of physic. You will never be able to recreate how it feels to actually play basketball with a controller in you hands that is a pipe dream and it misses the point of why people play videos games, they do it to escape into a fantasy world people play NBA games to recreate things that the saw on TV, control is important but it can't be the only aspect especially when it is limited to generic movements.

[Young Murder]

Re: Has EA finally given this series an identity?

So Boozer/Artest/Kobe jumping from the free throw line in traffic is sim and not bending the rules of physics.

If im not mistaking ratings tie into this.

[coolcras7]

Re: Has EA finally given this series an identity?

If im not mistaking ratings tie into this.

S the rating allow for unrealistic things to happen in Elite and that is Sim ?

[Young Murder]

Re: Has EA finally given this series an identity?

S the rating allow for unrealistic things to happen in Elite and that is Sim ?

rEAnimator
NBA Elite Developer

OVR: 23
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 371
Re: NBA Elite 11 Videos: 3 Quick Clips
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulkules

More the distance.. Thanks for the reply.

Distance, absolutely. That's something that's easy to tune (assuming the ratings are consistent across all players that is).

The animation side is a little more restrictive. I have no idea if his dunk package has been assigned or not. If it has been assigned then it's likely to stay as is.

But the distance he can dunk from is definitely still open for tuning (and could likely continue to be tuned post ship).

[kmart2180]

Re: Has EA finally given this series an identity?

IMO like a few said earlier if we could just take the animations of 2k and mix them into the better controlling Live we'd have the perfect baby/NBA game.

I love the direction Elite is going in and although Im predicting year 1 to be shaky but solid. Its the right direction by far. 2K has the prettier game due to the the insane amount of animations BUT there comes a point when all start getting tired of the prettyness and just want the better controlling game which has always been Live.

Elite needs to just keep building in the animation department to make it LOOK as good as it FEELS. It was really a bitter sweet feeling for me when I heard of elites new direction cause I felt live 10 was a few animations away from being GREAT. Although I do like the direction of being able to control everything. When Im shutting down a player like Kobe Bryant I want people to know that its me and not a button/animation force fielding me to stay in front of him. I love that aspect of Elite.

I cannot wait for the demo to test it out.

[Young Murder]

Re: Has EA finally given this series an identity?

IMO like a few said earlier if we could just take the animations of 2k and mix them into the better controlling Live we'd have the perfect baby/NBA game.

I love the direction Elite is going in and although Im predicting year 1 to be shaky but solid. Its the right direction by far. 2K has the prettier game due to the the insane amount of animations BUT there comes a point when all start getting tired of the prettyness and just want the better controlling game which has always been Live.

Elite needs to just keep building in the animation department to make it LOOK as good as it FEELS. It was really a bitter sweet feeling for me when I heard of elites new direction cause I felt live 10 was a few animations away from being GREAT. Although I do like the direction of being able to control everything. When Im shutting down a player like Kobe Bryant I want people to know that its me and not a button/animation force fielding me to stay in front of him. I love that aspect of Elite.

I cannot wait for the demo to test it out.

Exactly, I don't need the game to play for me.

[23]

Re: Has EA finally given this series an identity?

Amazing because Live 10 made you play angles to cut off the ballhandler for defense and a ton of people complained that it was too hard, and thus they changed it to the forcefield and suction. People dont know what they want on here.... and this thread is making my head hurt

Its way off topic and its that close to being locked anyway