***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

[OSUPiper]

Re: ***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

In 2k7, MSG was only used for the NIT preseason tournament.

With the slight increase in reach in fouls called, I am thinking of increasing my steals slider even more. I might try it where you had it set in 2k6. You had the slider set at 15 (out of 20). That translates to 75 in 2k8. I'll check back with the results.

I am interested in that. If steals do not increase at all, I am all for it. The more I learn about these sliders, the more I believe there are some real possibilities for good stats.

[doncoryell]

Re: ***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

I think we're out of luck with it. The first game had 71 total turnovers and 70 steals. The second game wasn't much better.

I restarted the open legacy with the steals slider set at 50 but in the first game there were 58 combined turnovers and 49 steals, so @ 50 is no good either.

I should try 35 next. That is the middle between the 50 setting and the setting that had it before (20).

[OSUPiper]

Re: ***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

I tried raising mine after making some other changes. I agree, keep it low.

However, one thing that I did that I really liked is set GAME SPEED = FAST.

I have always been afraid of doing this, but after reading the Game Speed v Player Speed thread, I gave it a shot. Now on PS2 you can't control Game Speed with a slider, just SLOW/NORMAL/FAST. I set it to fast and Player Speed = 40 and all of a sudden there were fast breaks and way less TOs on the press!

So I started over with my sliders using Fast game speed and I am pretty close to finished I think.

[NoleFan]

Re: ***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

Anyone have any thoughts on the difference in difficulty levels when in coach mode?

[doncoryell]

Re: ***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

I tried raising mine after making some other changes. I agree, keep it low.

However, one thing that I did that I really liked is set GAME SPEED = FAST.

I have always been afraid of doing this, but after reading the Game Speed v Player Speed thread, I gave it a shot. Now on PS2 you can't control Game Speed with a slider, just SLOW/NORMAL/FAST. I set it to fast and Player Speed = 40 and all of a sudden there were fast breaks and way less TOs on the press!

So I started over with my sliders using Fast game speed and I am pretty close to finished I think.

I've been trying your settings with the game speed at normal and I have found that the 3p% for the opposing teams are very low. The current team that I am testing with is VMI. They are #1 in the nation at 98 points per game. What I am seeing so far is that the team is averaging around 75 points per game. The crazy thing is, though, that the opposing team is only shooting 23% from 3pt range. This happened while I was testing with PC as well. I have no idea what could be causing this. Also, the fg% for the teams are a little low and I can live with that while testing because you are creating sliders based on the "virtual" world.

The rebounding averages look good as well as the steal setting because I am seeing a few more reaching fouls.

I like the idea of lowering the foul limits because of our lack of fouls. Having them set at 5 and 8 is allowing for more free throws near the end of each half and games.

I'll have to go back and start again with the game speed=fast and i'll let you know what i come up with.

[OSUPiper]

Re: ***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

My foul limit settings don't work. I don't understand it at all. I lowered the limits, but still no 1-1 until the 7th foul.

I have bumped 3% back up, but I have a lot of changes since upping the game speed, just to compensate. Man, teams really run the break now. I think my problem with 3s originally was the tendency slider. Lowering the 3 tendency kinda raises FG% b/c players take 3s in better situations, i.e. open looks, rather than firing them up. I think raising the tendency makes CPU teams shoot ill advised 3s, while we can 'coach' our team into better looks over the course of a game.

Otherwise, I am settling in on a set I am happy with.

[doncoryell]

Re: ***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

Here are the first results with the game speed=fast:

Score: VMI 81, Northern Colorado 54
Field Goals: VMI 33-64, .516 / Northern Colorado 21-52, .404
3pt Field Goals: VMI 7-19, .368 / Northern Colorado 3-14, .214
Free Throws: VMI 8-13, .615 / Northern Colorado 9-12, .750
Assists: VMI 22 / Northern Colorado 8
Turnovers: VMI 11 / Northern Colorado 19
Fouls: VMI 10 / Northern Colorado 9
Rebounds: VMI 35 / Northern Colorado 26
Off. Rebounds: VMI 11 / Northern Colorado 5
Blocks: VMI 3 / Northern Colorado 2

My thoughts:
1) FG% is okay. VMI (in real life) is shooting between .500-.520
2) 3pt% is okay for VMI, very low for opponents
3) lack of assists for the opponents puzzles me
4) many fast breaks (this can be okay due to VMI's up tempo offense)

To look at how VMI is go to the coach profiles in the management section, then go to the big south conference and scroll down to VMI. I think that the first three slider settings for the coach is at 100. It's a fast offensive tempo plus likes to play a tight defense. It also has the inbounds pass pressure (2-3 matchup) set to always. That would explain the number of turnovers for the opponent.

I am currently watching VMI against USAFA (Air Force) in the championship game of the Air Force Classic. (in game as Hanger Classic)

[doncoryell]

Re: ***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

Piper, the one major problem in the stats when testing your slider settings is the lack of assists. I had decided to raise your layup slider up to where you had it in 2k6 (in 2k6 it was set at 10/20 so that would now be 50/100). I then started a test legacy with PC because their mix of opponents was better than VMI's.

game #1: Temple 74, Providence 68
Field Goals: PC 24-68, .353 / Temple 26-57, .456
3PT FG: PC 13-32, .406 / Temple 1-9, .111
Free Throws: PC 7-8, .875 / Temple 21-25, .840
Rebounds: PC 41 (oreb 12) / Temple 32 (oreb3)
Assists: PC 17 / Temple 12
Turnovers: PC 21 / Temple 15
Blocks: PC 0 / Temple 3

Temple was the designated home team.

Providence
D.Williams - 13 pts (4-8 fg, 1-2 3pt) (PG @ PG)
J.Xavier - 31 pts (11-25 fg, 8-14 3pt) (SG @ SG)
B.McKenzie - 14 pts (4-11 fg, 4-11 3pt) (SF @ SF)
G.McDermott - 2 pts (1-7 fg, 0-3 3pt) (SF @ PF)
J.Kale - 8 pts (4-11 fg, 0-0 3pt) (PF @ C)

Temple
S.Inge - 8 pts (1-4 fg, 0-0 3pt) (PG @ PG)
D.Christmas - 21 pts (8-16 fg, 1-5 3pt) (SG @ SG)
M.Tyndale - 15 pts (5-13 fg, 0-2 3pt) (SG @ SF)
S.Olmos - 10 pts (3-4 fg, 0-1 3pt) (C @ PF)
M.Eric - 10 pts (5-13 fg, 0-0 3pt) (PF @ C)

When you first posted your settings, you stated that you lowered the layup slider because your FG% from your point guards were too high, IYO. This hampered the ability of layups being put in on fast breaks and from passes to players in the paint, including your centers and forwards. Did you take a look at what the player's individual attributes/ratings were? Some point guards are very good shooting layups (80+) but I also saw some that were not so good (mid-upper 60s).

[doncoryell]

Re: ***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

I made a major goof, piper. I accidentally had the difficulty level at all-american and not all-conference.

I did notice one other thing though while at the aa difficulty. After the PC games against Harvard and Maine, I noticed that the starting players in the C, PF, SF and SG were almost the same as far as field goal attempts. Is this by design or just a coincidence?

BTW, I have restarted the legacy with the correct all-conference level. One thing noticed so far: assists are low. This could again be because the layup attribute is to low (38). Maybe we should try it where you had it for 2k6 (10 out of 20, which is 50 in 2k8).

[grismosw]

Re: ***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

I love the idea of going with 5 fouls for bonus situation, that should help quite a bit. I'm still playing 2k7 though, some times I get 15 fouls in a half other times 2. I had one game at half time I had 15 fouls and the CPU had 0. They shot 22 free throws in the first half! Thank god we are 11 deep!

I contemplating going with 4 fouls for fouling out, in 4 seasons I've yet to have anyone foul out.

[OSUPiper]

Re: ***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

I made a major goof, piper. I accidentally had the difficulty level at all-american and not all-conference.

I did notice one other thing though while at the aa difficulty. After the PC games against Harvard and Maine, I noticed that the starting players in the C, PF, SF and SG were almost the same as far as field goal attempts. Is this by design or just a coincidence?

BTW, I have restarted the legacy with the correct all-conference level. One thing noticed so far: assists are low. This could again be because the layup attribute is to low (38). Maybe we should try it where you had it for 2k6 (10 out of 20, which is 50 in 2k8).

Heheheh, it did occur to me that the difficulty setting was different based on your stats and comments. I wondered what the effect would be. I do not know how the heck you got 25 FTs from Temple in your game.

In response to several comments:

Yes I did consider layup ratings for my players when messing with these. Particularly, I had a couple of guys who like to drive and are decent at layups, but they were driving and scooping shots in against 2-3 defenders in the paint. I felt that 90-100% accuracy on those shots was ridiculous. For the record, LAYUP=38 has resulted in fewer than 1 miss per game on fast breaks.

Assist to Turnover Ratio hovers around 1:1 in simmed stats, as I recall, and that is where my ratio is during games.

My fouls-to-bonus sliders flat out do not work. I do not know why.

I need to tweak these at a power school to solidify them now. One thing that concerns me is that the effect of defense may be overstated, so that bad defenses yield good shooting nights every time, and good defenses yield bad shooting nights. This is regardless of how good the opposing offense is. For the most part this is great, just not every game or the stats will be jacked up.

I will play a couple more games and post some results.

[doncoryell]

Re: ***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

It was a bunch of shooting fouls and reaching fouls that gave the Owls that many free throws. The number of fouls early caused the Friars to hit the 7 and 10 foul threshholds plus PC started intentionally fouling because of the close score and time running out.

I've even seen it myself about your lower foul settings of 5 and 8. It didn't work for me either. It's the same problem that people had last year when they tried it.

I restarted the legacy with power conference school PC. Here's the results so far.

game #1 - PC (power) vs Temple (major) ("Palm Tree" shootout) (note: this is the Puerto Rico Shootout and should be played in PR. it was played in the game at the home of USF). Temple is the designated home team.

Score: Temple 70, Providence 67
Field Goals: PC 21-65, .323 / Temple 27-59, .458
3pt FGs: PC 11-29, .379 / Temple 3-12, .250
Free Throws: PC 14-17, .824 / Temple 13-17, .765
Assists: PC 16 / Temple 13
Turnovers: PC 5 / Temple 10
Rebounds: PC 32 (6 orebs) / Temple 37 (7 orebs)
Blocks: PC 2 / Temple 6

Starting 5 results:
PC
Williams (pg) 12 pts (2-5 fg, 2-3 3pt)
Xavier (sg) 15 pts (5-12 fg, 3-6 3pt)
McKenzie (sg @ sf) 25 pts (9-21 fg, 5-16 3pt)
McDermott (sf @ pf) 2 pts (1-6 fg, 0-0 3pt)
Kale (pf @ c) 7 pts (3-12 fg, 1-1 3pt)

Temple
pg#15 - 4 pts (1-5 fg, 0-1 3pt)
sg#22 - 19 pts (7-16 fg, 1-7 3pt)
sg#13 (sg @ sf) - 16 pts (6-11 fg, 0-0 3pt)
pf#14 - 6 pts (3-7 fg, 0-2)
c#50 - 15 pts (6-12 fg, 0-0)


game #2 - Harvard (small) @ Providence (power)
score: Providence 71, Harvard 50
field goals: Harvard 21-66, .318 / PC 28-61, .459
3pt fgs: Harvard 4-25, .160 / PC 4-8, .500
free throws: Harvard 4-7, .571 / PC 11-12, .917
assists: Harvard 9 / PC 10
turnovers: Harvard 8 / PC 10
rebounds: Harvard 28 (8 orebs) / PC 42 (9 orebs)
blocks: Harvard 4 / PC 4

starting 5 results

Harvard
pg#10 - 4 pts (1-4 fg, 0-2 3pt)
pg#11 (pg @ sg) - 7 pts (2-6 fg, 1-3 3pt)
sf#30 - 14 pts (6-18 fg, 2-12 3pt)
pf#22 - 10 pts (5-15 fg, 0-2 3pt)
pf#1 (pf @ c) - 8 pts (4-12 fg, 0-1 3pt)

Providence
Williams (pg) - 20 pts (6-12 fg, 1-1 3pt)
Xavier (sg) - 9 pts (4-11 fg, 1-2 3pt)
McKenzie (sg @ sf) - 11 pts (4-12 fg, 1-3 3pt)
McDermott (sf @ pf) - 10 pts (5-8 fg, 0-0 3pt)
Kale (pf @ c) - 2 pts (0-1 fg, 0-0 3pt)


Totals thru 2 games
scoring: PC 138 (69.0) / opponents 120 (60.0)
field goals: PC 49-126, .388 / opponents 48-125, .384
3pt fgs: PC 15-37, .405 / opponents 7-37, .189
free throws: PC 25-29, .862 / opponents 17-24, .708
assists: PC 26 (13.0) / opponents 22 (11.0)
turnovers: PC 15 (7.5) / opponents 18 (9.0)
rebounds: PC 74 (37.0) / opponents 65 (32.5)
orebs: PC 15 / opponents 16
blocks: PC 6 (3.0) / opponents 10 (5.0)

observations:
1) 3pt% - how the heck can the opponents only be 18.9% from 3pt range?
2) c & pf fg% - although these "positions" are usually filled with "offensively challenged" (read: bad offense/good defense), these look to low

my thoughts:
1) could be attributed to shot selection. i tried before with your converted 2k6 tendencies and the results were much better as far as shot selection & fg%. changing the tendencies would also keep fga's from the "offensively challenged" and put them where they belong, with the shooters. the conversions would be as follows: close (5), mid (0), 3pt (50), drive (75). you still see shots from the post/near the basket & midrange (10-20 ft) because the teams still try to work the ball inside when running their halfcourt offense.

2) most, but not all, shots near the basket are layups. i feel that the layup slider should be increased. this will also probably increase the assists, which is a good thing because they look to be a little low.


ps: so far in the Maine @ PC game, the Black Bears were shooting 0-6 from 3pt range.

Also, just in case you don't have your notes from 2k6, here were your shooting sliders converted to 2k8: inside (40), mid range (53), 3pt (48), dunk success (53), layup success (50).

[cad4life]

Re: ***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

I am wondering how much do you think Tight Defense affects 3pt shooting percentage. I know I play tight defense on the opposing team PG and SG.

[OSUPiper]

Re: ***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

I haven't messed with defensive pressure, but with the lack of fouls on PS2 I feel like I would be cheating the game since I do not see a risk (normally fouls) to offset the reward (turnovers, lower FG%).

[OSUPiper]

Re: ***OS's Official College Hoops 2k8 Coach Mode Central***

donc,

there is definitely some interplay between the tendency sliders and the FG% sliders, and your argument may be right on about that. I have been upping the midrange slider because I rarely see those shots. I have CLOSE=0, and I still see teams banging the ball inside.

As you say, one option may be to tweak the layup slider back up and adjust tendencies. Another option I am considering is jacking screen strength and success way up to give more open looks in the mid-range (it seems to me that many of the screens in the halfcourt offenses are set to pop shooters open on the perimeter, and in this game the Gs are close enough that those would often be midrange shots). Ths would also give some open looks for 3s, which would mean dropping the 3 tendency and maybe the 3% slider.

I have the ballhandling slider at about 90 now. I want to test the Assist:Turnover ratio and see how different I can make it with that slider. If I cannot get results, I will have to drop D and O Awareness to keep TOs in line while raising Assist opportunities.

I love GAME SPEED = FAST. There is a great transition game with that setting. My problem is that quick, athletic teams are favored by that by default. This is only unrealistic in the sense that even CPU teams that SHOULD beat you will not if you recruit speed, cuz the sliders are set to make baskets hard to come by in the halfcourt. The 2k6 sliders were so fun because (for me at least) they were so balanced. You could win with Gs and Fs, or with a dominant C or PF. This is why I was able to play so many seasons despite the legacy bugs. I do not want to dominate 2k8 as a mid-major just because my team can get out and run.