Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

[DC]

Re: Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

For me, yes KD is a West All-Star. I know some don't think he is. Yao is exempt from this.

Best 12 Pound for Pound out West and they will be All-Stars:

1. Bryant
Duncan
Paul
Melo
Roy
Dirk
Pau
Deron
Kevin Durant
Tony Parker
Billups
12. Amare or AL

Is this in order? If so, explain why Roy outranks

Dirk, Deron, TP, Chauncey

[JBH3]

Re: Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

As much as I like KD's game he hasn't proven ish yet compared to Chauncey or Pau.

What games has KD taken over? He's the posterboy for a guy who puts up crazy stats on a bad team ala Kevin Martin, he's just younger and more efficient. Gasol was in the same situation but led his team to the playoffs for a couple of years in Memphis.

You don't see a player w/ an ability to take over a game?

25/gm and almost 2,000 pts in his 2nd yr in the league while shooting 47% percent from the floor and 44% from 3 is hardly a volume shooter on a bad team.

Durant would be any team's #1 option that didn't have a Wade/Kobe/Lebron. Now that's not putting him in their league as a whole, just as an offensive player or in a like ability to fill it up like they do. So those w/ big hearts for those players don't get your panties in a bunch. :wink:

I like KD's game but he has been annointed far to early on the OS board.

I disagree, most/if not all, of those having stated their projections/potential/etc for KD are some of the more cohesive minds that post in this forum.

I respect the Stumble's and Born's and GSWs and Packman's opinions...at least when it comes to basketball, OS neighborhood is a different story .

He is not completely OUT of the question but right now he can't possibly outrank two dudes that propelled their NEW teams into a higher stratosphere.

Then he IS out of the question, at least in your mind. At least that's what I'm concluding.

Durant can't compete w/ the team's Chauncey and Gasol NOW play for/have played for (Pistons), and there's no reason he shouldn't be able to. He's an even more accomplished player two years in the league than either Gasol or Chauncey was. However, since he again, can't compete w/ shared team success, he's eventually fixated out of being any where near these guys in terms of talent, ability, etc.

So there is essentially one fair way, in this discussion, to compare or differentiate these 3 players. That would currently be statistically.

Again, I am not arguing that Durant is ON PACE to having a better individual career than both of those dudes, but the word PLAYER looks at more than just stats and skill set. You HAVE to take into consideration; winning mentality, experience, leadership. Durant is a young young man, he hopefully will gain all of those things over time.

I agree w/ this, but whose to say he doesn't have these things already?

He was one of four starting freshmen who led Texas to the NCAAs. Was he not a leader then? Did he, upon entering the NBA, lose his leadership card?

Just because his team is less talented than the others he competes against doesn't mean he has any less of a winning mentality or leadership than either Gasol or Billups.

IMO it just means his team is not as talented. A losing record doesn't mean every player on that team has no winning mentality or leadership abilities. It could just mean they're not as talented a team, and that's what I'm saying.

I mean any team that fields Nick Collison in a starting lineup is losing more games than they'll win anyways. Right?

But RIGHT NOW, he can't be placed ahead of two vets that are final pieces to championship puzzles.

You might not want to answer any hypotheticals because from our back and forth it seems you're the type that needs concrete evidence of a trend, winning sans talent being that trend, rather than basing a projection off of limitless potential, stats, etc.

But think about KD going to an aspiring contender similar to Gasol to LA or Billups to DEN.

What if he and oh Collison some shoes and a ball were traded to Philadelphia for Thad Young, Samuel Dalembert, Marresse Speights, and 2 # 1's; just throwing something out there.

Philly would essentially add the missing piece they've needed these last couple years. A very capable perimeter threat w/ an inside/outside game, post-up game, and just an offensive monster to become a sure fire #1 option w/ a complement of Elton Brand and Iggy.

Where would Philly be then in the championship picture?

A favorite right?

I think so.

So think of Durant the same you now see Gasol and Billups, and what they've brought to their respective new teams.

Maybe that opens up your mind a little?

[DC]

Re: Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

No it doesn't open my mind up any. I still feel the same way. Durant is ranked lower than the two proven vets.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

You really think Chauncey will have a better individual year of production than Durant?





Come All Star break, this whole conversation will look insane, barring injury to any players being discussed.

[DC]

Re: Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

I never said that CB or Pau would have a better year of production than KD Born.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

No my list was not in order. I don't like ranking players, merely stating who's the best of the best. It's way too debatable when it comes to ranking the best of the best.

[JBH3]

Re: Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

You really think Chauncey will have a better individual year of production than Durant?





Come All Star break, this whole conversation will look insane, barring injury to any players being discussed.

That it will, THAT IT WILL.

[KG]

Re: Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

You don't see a player w/ an ability to take over a game?

25/gm and almost 2,000 pts in his 2nd yr in the league while shooting 47% percent from the floor and 44% from 3 is hardly a volume shooter on a bad team.

Durant would be any team's #1 option that didn't have a Wade/Kobe/Lebron. Now that's not putting him in their league as a whole, just as an offensive player or in a like ability to fill it up like they do. So those w/ big hearts for those players don't get your panties in a bunch. :wink:


I disagree, most/if not all, of those having stated their projections/potential/etc for KD are some of the more cohesive minds that post in this forum.

I respect the Stumble's and Born's and GSWs and Packman's opinions...at least when it comes to basketball, OS neighborhood is a different story .

I definately see a player with the potential to take over games but like DC says, how important are the games he's taking over? I know what he did in his 2nd year was incredible from efficiency standpoint for any player, let alone a 20yr old but my issue is with putting him in the likes of players who are playing in meaningful games where rings are decided. Yes, it's a little unfair to KD because of his team but people are basing this off potential and saying "if...".

I'm not going to get into a list of what other #1 options would remain #1 if KD. Too many hypotheticals there. Just look at players #6-12 on that list. All of them have proven themselves to be playoff STUDS.

You really think Chauncey will have a better individual year of production than Durant?





Come All Star break, this whole conversation will look insane, barring injury to any players being discussed.

No one is stating that Durant won't have better #'s than the majority of those lists. KD's 2nd year #'s were better than Chauncey's best year but guys like Billups & Pau make their team go from middle of the pack to contenders. In my eyes that's more important than putting up crazy stats on a loser.

[DC]

Re: Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

Yea I would be a fool to think CB or Pau's #'s will look anywhere near Durants. That wasn't my point in all of this

[GSW]

Re: Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

where is Baby Jesus?

this list is fugazi.

[X*Cell]

Re: Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

No my list was not in order. I don't like ranking players, merely stating who's the best of the best. It's way too debatable when it comes to ranking the best of the best.

yeah, but then you make it undebatable by not offering an upfront opinion. Not saying you did it wrong, it's all well and good, but go out on a limb man. You usually hit all the right points when you do anyway ex.

[X*Cell]

Re: Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

Yea I would be a fool to think CB or Pau's #'s will look anywhere near Durants. That wasn't my point in all of this

That wasn't mine either so yer all good. I can't go all out and say I'd rather have Durant rather than Billups because Chauncey is the right fit for Denver, and Durant would clash with Melo. I agree with DC in that you can't really make comparisons between different roles, especially from a trade perspective. However, I will say considering my rankings, and Durant's and Melo's similarities, I think Denver would be better off with Durant rather than Melo running with Billups, altho not by very much since they are respectively 5th and 6th on my list.

Buttttt... I think Melo is better than Chauncey on the Nuggets.

So... Durant is > than Melo... and Melo is > Chauncey so therefore...

Durant is > than Chauncey.

That is one way to make the comparison, is it not?

[DC]

Re: Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

Buttttt... I think Melo is better than Chauncey on the Nuggets.

Ugh.........explain please?

[JBH3]

Re: Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

No one is stating that Durant won't have better #'s than the majority of those lists. KD's 2nd year #'s were better than Chauncey's best year but guys like Billups & Pau make their team go from middle of the pack to contenders. In my eyes that's more important than putting up crazy stats on a loser.

Yes. But why WHY did do they do that?

There's already in place a famed headcoach Brown/Jackson/Karl, and a multitude of talent.

Tayshaun Prince, Mehmet Okur, Rasheed Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Ben Wallace, Lindsey Hunter.

Kobe Bryant, Lamar Odom, Trevor Ariza, Andrew Bynum, Derek Fisher.

So, all of a sudden, Durant is going to turn into what (?) if he goes to a team poised for success? Jason Richardson?

What if it was Durant headed to San Ant instead of Richard Jefferson?? They'd be the hands down favorite right? That would basically rule out your above post right?

The issue is people are unwilling to think for themselves w/o the NBA proving it for them. I mean where were you when the AI trade went down? Thinking Detroit just screwed up, and now Chauncey was going to waste away in Denver w/ an overrated wing? Or that adding Gasol would give LA just enough to finally compete w/ Boston rather than lose in 5 (regardless of what actually happened w/ KG suffering an injury to end the C's hope for a repeat).

[DC]

Re: Top 25 Players out West-- Is KD top 12?

So because we are putting importance on winning and not stats we are now allowing the NBA/Media to think for us? Come on now, you have to have a better argument than that.