The LeBron James Thread

[videobastard]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

Lets not act like LeBron is the only guy they lost from last year though. I'm sure losing Shaq, Big Z and Delonte West to free agency and losing Varejao and Jamison to injuries played no role in that losing streak?

It was bad analogy. But even with those players listed with the cavs at full strength in my opinion are a bigger drop off then any of the championship squads minus their best strength. The cavs in my opinion still would be a lottery team.

[videobastard]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

In the nba finals cavs vs spurs larry hughes was playing injured in the nba finals vs the spurs. Hughes scored 2 points in gm1, 0 points in game 2 and did not play in games 3 or 4.

I do not see how lebron could take on the contributions of duncan, parker, ginobli, and the collective team defense of the spurs with the bowen and horry helping out. It was just a bad match up.

Mo williams and jamison regardless of regular season stats have to be accounted for what they did during the playoffs with the cavs. When the defenses collapsed on lebron mo and jamison did not make the big shots when it counted. Lebron did not have the luxury as other teams to have an off night to win a series against the elite teams.

I think its fair to wait and see how lebron fairs with legitimate help now that he is with the heat before a true ranking can be accessed.

[Kashanova]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

This has nothing to do with the argument... but yeah, I don't think LeBron has ever had a true Batman like a Scottie Pippin or anything, but he's had talent that compares to some of the other past champions.

like what teams?

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

like what teams?

Pretty sure it was on one of the last few pages, but the Spurs post-David Robinson before Parker and Ginobli got good. Mo Williams put up better numbers in the playoffs (where we all know he sucked) than any other Spur that year.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

Pretty sure it was on one of the last few pages, but the Spurs post-David Robinson before Parker and Ginobli got good. Mo Williams put up better numbers in the playoffs (where we all know he sucked) than any other Spur that year.

OK, but outside of that team and maybe the Houston Rockets teams, every other team in the current era, mid-80's and on, had a hell of a lot better teams.

Also consider that the Spurs team and the Rockets team's best player was a PF/C. That is a major difference as we all know that a dominant post player has the most value in terms of winning in the playoffs.. unless you have Michael Jordan.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

OK, but outside of that team and maybe the Houston Rockets teams, every other team in the current era, mid-80's and on, had a hell of a lot better teams.

Also consider that the Spurs team and the Rockets team's best player was a PF/C. That is a major difference as we all know that a dominant post player has the most value in terms of winning in the playoffs.. unless you have Michael Jordan.

Eh, when you have a guy that can give you 30, 10, and 10 on any given night and you're not that surprised, I honestly think that's more valuable to the team than a Tim Duncan. And I never said it's normal for the champions to be constructed like that, I only said that it's happened before and that the Cavs had enough talent to win a championship. They just didn't win it. I'm not even saying LeBron "didn't get it done when it mattered" or anything like a lot of people say. There's nobody to blame for the Cavs not winning a championship. It's just difficult to be the one team that wins it. But that doesn't mean his team wasn't capable. They were.

[Pitfighter87]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

Jamison is a career 20 and 8 guy. Thats a pretty good 2nd option IMO.

You are correct but was he puttin out that type of production when he was in cleveland? I didnt think he did but i may be wrong.I cant find his numbers for cleveland alone in the 09-10 season so maybe he did but i know he wasnt a factor in the playoffs.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

This always comes back to the same point:

LeBron certainly had enough around him to win.

But compared to the other contenders around, his teams didn't stack up. Plain and simple. Looking back at each season, I am not surprised at all that Cleveland never won a ring. That's not to say he never had a chance to win, just that the others had a larger chance to win.

Also, I think Duncan's value in his prime is pretty tough to debate.

Only other player more valuable in the current era was Shaq's.

[Scott812313]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

You are correct but was he puttin out that type of production when he was in cleveland? I didnt think he did but i may be wrong.I cant find his numbers for cleveland alone in the 09-10 season so maybe he did but i know he wasnt a factor in the playoffs.

He averaged 15 and 7.5 in the playoffs with Cleveland. Not great but not terrible either.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

This always comes back to the same point:

LeBron certainly had enough around him to win.

But compared to the other contenders around, his teams didn't stack up. Plain and simple. Looking back at each season, I am not surprised at all that Cleveland never won a ring. That's not to say he never had a chance to win, just that the others had a larger chance to win.

Also, I think Duncan's value in his prime is pretty tough to debate.

Only other player more valuable in the current era was Shaq's.

I can agree with this. I think LeBron is right up there as far as valuable goes though (not on Shaq's level though).

[Pitfighter87]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

He averaged 15 and 7.5 in the playoffs with Cleveland. Not great but not terrible either.

Those are decent numbers but thats more of a third option type numbers he really needed another guy on that team that could go for 20-30 any night.Antwan was a great player but he wasnt drawin any doudle teams or really takin the pressure of Lebron every other possesion.

[Pitfighter87]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

This always comes back to the same point:

LeBron certainly had enough around him to win.

But compared to the other contenders around, his teams didn't stack up. Plain and simple. Looking back at each season, I am not surprised at all that Cleveland never won a ring. That's not to say he never had a chance to win, just that the others had a larger chance to win.

Also, I think Duncan's value in his prime is pretty tough to debate.

Only other player more valuable in the current era was Shaq's.

I like this

[videobastard]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

I believe lebron would of benefited more with these types of players more then what he had with his cavs teams in a 1 superstar team with a supporting cast.

Sam Cassell
Mario Elie
Robert Horry
Vernon Maxwell
Kenny Smith
Otis Thorpe
add Cylde Drexler for the 94/95 season

Then if he was fortunate to have a kareem, worthy, pippen, kukoc, prime shaq that takes it to another level.

This thread will probably be bumped near the end of his career or a new one created lol good or bad when its all said and done.

[videobastard]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

This always comes back to the same point:

LeBron certainly had enough around him to win.

But compared to the other contenders around, his teams didn't stack up. Plain and simple. Looking back at each season, I am not surprised at all that Cleveland never won a ring. That's not to say he never had a chance to win, just that the others had a larger chance to win.

Also, I think Duncan's value in his prime is pretty tough to debate.

Only other player more valuable in the current era was Shaq's.

I can agree with this.

[wwharton]

Re: Where does LeBron rank all-time?

Please keep this thread on topic. The topic being where people think Lebron ranks now. Talk about whether or not he had help in Cleveland, should've left, etc. should be in the other thread. I understand how some mentions make sense to support where you think he ranks but if this thread just turns into a debate about that again, it'll need to be closed.