The LeBron James Thread

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

OSU, I'm going to look up the thread where Jamison got traded, to see what you said. I'll be back.

1. How much of that regular season success was due purely because of James' brilliance? I would wager more than a lot that you couldn't just plop any other SG or SF in that situation, and that if you did, CLE would struggle to have home court advantage in the first round.

They built around James the best they could, but it all goes back to the fact that they had not much to work with at the beginning of the LBJ era. So it was more of makeshift moves to get help "now" as you put it. That sentiment I agree with, it's sooooo obvious that you do the Jamison deal at that point. You had to risk it, Jamison could have finally been his Robin. Alas he's not, he's more of a third wheel.

2. No, CLE doesn't have just a good a chance as ORL or BOS [if they stay together]. They aren't far behind if they keep James, but they aren't on that level at all from top to bottom, coaches and players.

I've been repeating this exact post for a while now so it's pointless to keep this up, I apologize.

As I've said, James masks a lot of problems, because he is simply that good. The regular season means nothing, James is the perfect regular season player. He has a lot of issues [giving up in the playoffs for some inexplicable reason] and once the bright lights hit, the bigger issues of his teammates/coaches were exposed.

Just because "they had the best record two years in a row" doesn't mean they have an acceptable cast of characters. What it shows is how good James was during the regular season.

[wwharton]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Me.

I didn't like the Jamison move from the start, and then got sucked into the hype after the fact.

It was a stupid trade and Ferry convinced himself that Jamison "fit better" than Amar'e.

It's why Ferry is on the unemployment line.

I have no facts but I'm pretty sure LBJ and Shaq's presence had more to do with Jamison over Amare than anything. Even still, it's hilarious that people are acting like Jamison's a dud. It's always a crap shoot that a new player will gel immediately... he didn't. In that offense, I'm not surprised. Only a spot up jump shooter could jump right into that offense and have success. I think he still has value if LBJ stays. He can't play D... but everybody knew that already. Honestly, Amare's D is pretty suspect too.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

I have no facts but I'm pretty sure LBJ and Shaq's presence had more to do with Jamison over Amare than anything. Even still, it's hilarious that people are acting like Jamison's a dud. It's always a crap shoot that a new player will gel immediately... he didn't. In that offense, I'm not surprised. Only a spot up jump shooter could jump right into that offense and have success. I think he still has value if LBJ stays. He can't play D... but everybody knew that already. Honestly, Amare's D is pretty suspect too.

Are we going to have this same discussion all over again?

Jamison is far from a dud, still not sure who said he was.

[wwharton]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Are we going to have this same discussion all over again?

Jamison is far from a dud, still not sure who said he was.

Don't know what discussion you're talking abut (maybe you weren't having it with me). OSUfan said he wouldn't have made the Jamison trade... much like you, I'm saying the Jamison trade is far from the reason the Cavs didn't win it all and wasn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

It was a previous discussion in general about LBJ's supporting cast, specifically Jamison.

Over generalizing when it comes to that topic is not productive.

I doubt anyone is saying "Jamison is a dud". To be fair to you, it is indeed funny that OSU would call out Ferry for that trade at this point in time. I don't remember many people saying it was a bad trade when it occurred.

In the original discussions that I am referring to, others would say "it's funny how people say CLE has garbage around James". I thought you were doing this.

No nobody said that, his cast just wasn't/isn't up to par with the other great teams. From the players down to the coaches.

The Cavs only had those "great" but worthless regular season records because James is a great regular season performer, and their cast is overwhelming when they are not playing entire series', especially against Boston or Orlando.

[wwharton]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

It was a previous discussion in general about LBJ's supporting cast, specifically Jamison.

Over generalizing when it comes to that topic is not productive.

I doubt anyone is saying "Jamison is a dud". To be fair to you, it is indeed funny that OSU would call out Ferry for that trade at this point in time. I don't remember many people saying it was a bad trade when it occurred.

In the original discussions that I am referring to, others would say "it's funny how people say CLE has garbage around James". I thought you were doing this.

No nobody said that, his cast just wasn't/isn't up to par with the other great teams. From the players down to the coaches.

The Cavs only had those "great" but worthless regular season records because James is a great regular season performer, and their cast is overwhelming when they are not playing entire series', especially against Boston or Orlando.

Oh, no that's not what I was getting at here. Yes, it could be part of that conversation but my focus is specifically on Jamison who was basically an all star before the trade and consistently throughout his career. It wasn't a bad trade to make and shouldn't be surprising that he didn't gel immediately with the team, even though that was the hope. I think if they had another year together (especially in a real offense) we'd see more chemistry and the move "may" pay off, but we may never know if LBJ jumps ship.

[Dice]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Looking back... How lucky are bulls that they landed Rose in that lottery?

Seriously, without Rose they would be the worst team in the NBA.

Even landing the first pick could have still been worst. The Bulls could have drafted Michael Beasley with the first pick.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

OSU, I'm going to look up the thread where Jamison got traded, to see what you said. I'll be back.

Pretty sure i said I was disappointed, then later stated that he should average 20/10 in his sleep.

[BaselineBakes]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Didn't like that Jamison deal, I was dissapointed to see JJ lose all of his minutes, him and Shaq worked well toghether and he was athletic enough to be able to guard Shard on the Magic I thought. I think Jamison is a great player don't get me wrong but his postion is small forward not power forward.

I guess the deal could of worked but I don't think Mike Brown handled the rotations well at all, Jamison should have been coming off the bench in that Boston series, repeatidly allowing him to get exposed on defense by KG was depressing.

Now all you have is a bad contract in Jamison, and you've stunted Hickson's growth again. The kid has all the tools, Lebron could make him an all-star.

[BlueNGold]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

OSU, I'm going to look up the thread where Jamison got traded, to see what you said. I'll be back.

Actually OSU was against the deal if I remember correctly. He wanted the Cavs to get Igoudala instead.

I know I desperately wanted Jamison but when he got to Cleveland things just didn't work out. I'd still like to see how he does with a full season with the team and LeBron specifically but I highly doubt that's going to happen now.

[brahmagoul]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

The Jamison deal was a better fit because they A) gave up virtually nothing, B) the Shaq factor and the fact Jamison didn't need the ball to get his shots, and C) Stoudemire was thought to be a greater liability on defense.

Now, Kevin Garnett proved that to be different.

I really think the whole regular season vs. playoff thing comes down to Mike Brown. The matchups he went with on the floor screams Brown's fault. Especially against the Celtics, opting not to play Hickson when they played so much better against the C's with him. It was just sad.

But hey, since everyone says they don't want to discuss Jamison again, here's a new topic:

Who doesn't think Worldwide Wes is a parasite?

[USF11]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Even landing the first pick could have still been worst. The Bulls could have drafted Michael Beasley with the first pick.

They were taking Rose no doubt about it. He was a winner and a Chicago kid.

The cavs screwed themselves with some horrible contracts early in LBJ career. You can't recover from bad contracts in the NBA.

Unless you can move Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol.

[wwharton]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

Didn't like that Jamison deal, I was dissapointed to see JJ lose all of his minutes, him and Shaq worked well toghether and he was athletic enough to be able to guard Shard on the Magic I thought. I think Jamison is a great player don't get me wrong but his postion is small forward not power forward.

I guess the deal could of worked but I don't think Mike Brown handled the rotations well at all, Jamison should have been coming off the bench in that Boston series, repeatidly allowing him to get exposed on defense by KG was depressing.

Now all you have is a bad contract in Jamison, and you've stunted Hickson's growth again. The kid has all the tools, Lebron could make him an all-star.

If I remember correctly, Hickson got minutes while Shaq was on vacation, er, hurt. I don't remember him playing well with Shaq, and I think LBJ's screaming at Brown was bc Hickson's minutes were going to Shaq in the playoffs. I do agree that Jamison is a 3 in a 4's body though.

[BaselineBakes]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

If I remember correctly, Hickson got minutes while Shaq was on vacation, er, hurt. I don't remember him playing well with Shaq, and I think LBJ's screaming at Brown was bc Hickson's minutes were going to Shaq in the playoffs. I do agree that Jamison is a 3 in a 4's body though.

nuh-uh, before Shaq got hurt in that Boston game there was a good stretch when the frontcourt was JJ and Shaq to start games. JJ would play about 6 minutes as a place holder for Andy but he was extremely effective in the pick and roll with Bron while Shaq cleaned up the weakside. Sometimes he would get back in the game, more often then not he wouldn't, for reasons only Mike Brown would know.

That's neither here nor there now though, basically they should've kept starting Hickson is what I'm saying, but they didn't so o well.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: The Official "Where is LeBron going?" Thread

I still won't believe LeBron is gone until he signs a contract elsewhere, but I think that the Bulls went from 40-60 to 60-40 chance.