The LeBron James Thread

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

I'm telling you...No matter what LeBron does....hate will come his way...Until he wins a championship. MJ and Kobe homers are going call him a quitter...and anything else they can think of.

Fixed

SMH

[wwharton]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

No it isn't a waste of time to bring in other franchise players. It builds context.

We don't know what other players could have done, but I wouldn't expect a ring with Kobe or Wade at the helm of any of those Cleveland teams. With James, a lot of folks, including myself expected a title.

For the last time, James' teammates didn't "suck", so stop even posting that nonsense or implying that's what anyone's saying. I saw a post with that garbage in it.

Like I said we've all seen what "the greatest player of today" did with Cleveland level talent, and he got absolutely nowhere and cried and cried and cried and cried to the media and demanded a trade.

That same player quit on his team in more ways than one.

Brankles is arguing that his teammates suck and that's who I was debating with... don't know where you came from on this one so maybe you should "stop even posting that nonsense" because the post you saw with that "garbage" in it is at the center of the debate we're currently having. Maybe you're just talking to yourself and we're interrupting you.

The Lakers tried building around Kobe after Shaq left. They gave him spot-up shooters, rebounders, role players. Then after missing the playoffs once, getting knocked out of the playoffs twice, they decided to build a team like every other championship team ever built... by giving him talent and not just role players. Same with Wade. The Heat were Cavs-level until Wade got a late-prime Shaq, who averaged 20 a game that year.

You've acknowledged it many times in your argument. Teams cannot win with just one player. But somehow, the Cavs won 66 games playing very stupid basketball because they had one very good player. And they won the six seasons before that playing the same way.

The Cavs formula was wrong. Their coaching was bad. Their roster lacked championship talent. Yet for two years in a row the Cavs were front runners for the title. What was the common thread between their Finals run years ago and their season-best team this last year? Not Big Z. It was LeBron.

Whatever they put around him, he won. Year after year. Different coaches, different GMs, different teammates, he won. Not championships, because no one before him has ever done that with what he had, but he won games and got his teams deep into the playoffs.


I really don't see anything else LeBron could have done except kept averaging 35, 7 and 7 and winning games almost by himself, but how long would that have lasted? His body wears down, he plays the Magic, then the Lakers and it's unlikely he beats either of those teams like that. What he was asked to do has never been asked out of anyone else. He plays two bad games, and you all label him a loser and a sidekick.

You ignore his roster, his coaches, and look only at the success of his team. A team that was built around him, but at the same time built to fail. And when LeBron didn't drop his 35, 7 and 7, and played like a human his last two games, he gets blamed for the failure.

His role players were compliments not supplements. His coach was a yes-man, a guy who made his career off of riding LeBron's coattails. And while Kobe's GM was bringing in Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom and Ron Artest, LeBron's GM was bringing in Antawn Jamison, Jamario Moon, Anthony Parker and a near-retirement Shaq.


For some of you, he can't win this argument. He looked worn out and disinterested against the Celtics and you can't look past that.

I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and look at it from the perspective of history, of other NBA legends, of current NBA stars and the standards they were asked to win under.

Expectations for LeBron to win a title with what he was given is unprecedented. But if you really think he should have accomplished those expectations, and that he was a quitter and a follower for not accomplishing those goals, go ahead and believe that. But you're really disregarding everything that has happened in basketball before him, in the NBA and even on the college level, and it's unfair to LeBron.

Hindsight is 20/20. The Lakers have constantly brought in players... when they win a championship, the players they brought in are finally the right pieces, lol. Odom was thought to be the perfect Pippen type player... and Butler was a better Ron Artest who could contribute big time on offense. Those are the "role players" you're talking about after Shaq left. Now you mention Odom as part of the solid group that's championship quality now. Gasol was looked at as a traditional soft euro player without enough heart when they lost in 08, and now that he has a ring, he's the best PF in the NBA.

Coming into this season the Cavs central pieces of James, Mo and Shaq were all the talk of why they'd finally win the championship and they went on to win 66 games AND added Jamison. If they had won everyone would be giving this supporting cast all the props every other supporting cast gets when a team wins the championship. You can look at the break down of stats posted and the numbers look about like they should, and that's considering they weren't used properly.

BTW, the offense didn't work all season. That's not the offense they ran all regular season and certainly not the same rotation. Hell, it's not even the offense/rotation they ran against the Celtics (effectively) during the regular season.

Either way, trying to look at it from a perspective of "history" as you say doesn't work if you're going to judge players on his team without looking at their history. On paper they stack up with the likes of the Lakers, Celtics and Magic. It's when you call Mo a "choke artist" or Jamison a "bum" or Shaq and Z "old" and completely dismiss the likes of Hickson and West who pretty much averaged double figure points and contributed in other ways that it makes your argument look better. These things aren't looking at history, they're vague descriptions to discredit individual and team stats that match up better than you want to admit.

And most importantly, even if the task was unprecedented and one of such significance that it's never happened before, seeing him shut it down during crucial minutes of playoff games and eliminating the chance of doing the unthinkable, unobtainable, unquestionable feat to cement him as the chosen one is not a reason to give him a pass. I really don't even understand that kind of logic even if I did believe his teammates were garbage that he was carrying on his back.

[wwharton]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

Fixed

SMH

I call him a quitter, which am I?

Does this also mean that I hate James?

What other stereotype are you going to put on me or what group are you going to put me in based on my opinions that don't identically match yours?

Does it make you feel better to throw people in groups you look down on?

[Jasong7777]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

Yall funny. I just call it like is. Let's just see how this season goes.

[da ThRONe]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

Do you believe Kobe, Wade, or Durant would have quit on their team in the middle of a series in which they were the favorites.

Kobe was already accused of quiting in a game 7.

[jeebs9]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

Fixed

SMH

LMFAO

I'm an MJ homer lol....I think the thing he did will never be broken or seen for a long long time. Jordan's career average is an NBA record 30.1 a game. Wow I can't believe guys like Wilt and Lew are not up there. Even with the Wizard years. Thats a nice little stat.

Sorry guys... the guy that surpasses Jordan. Has to be perfect. 8 MVP (8 Finals), DPOY award, scoring champion 8 times, and etc. etc.. And can never lose in the Finals series. Also win All Star MVP a few times...lol

[jeebs9]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

Yall funny. I just call it like is. Let's just see how this season goes.

QFT!!!!

This look like they won't be talking to each other if they turn out right. I'm just pretty excited for the season. I mean I heard my friend the other day say.."If the Lakers wins the championship with all these teams ganging up. Kobe is better than MJ."

[King_B_Mack]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

Fixed

SMH

Hahaha a Laker fan calling people Kobe/MJ homers. I won't go as far and say that you're a Laker fan because of Kobe or nothing like that, but surely you see the hilarity in someone of Laker nation calling people homers for a player when that's pretty much what the Laker fanbase has devolved into.

Anyway I like LeBron despite what my opinions of him have turned into, I've supported the guy (I have a Bron jersey from the Finals run) but I don't like what he's done and how he's played everyone for fools along with those other two clowns and I absolutely can't stand looking at all this talk of people giving him a pass for shutting it down when his team needed him the most and trying to act like we'd see snowmen tanning in hell before the Cavs would have ever won a title with LeBron there. I killed Kobe for it when he did it (I can't stand Kobe btw) and I'm killing Bron for it as I'll continue to kill people for it when they do it.

[Jano]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

So to all the MJ/Kobe fans, do you believe Kobe or Wade or Durant or anyone could have taken any of James' teams to a ring?

I just want to see you actually type 'yes'.

I don't see Kobe or Wade taking Lebron's teams to a championship those guys just don't have the skillset (or should I say specific type of game?) to take that team far. Especially for that "offense" Brown was running for that team.

I do think if you give Bron a new coach things would have been a little different though. Mo Will and Jamison I feel were a lot better then the way they played on CLE but I put most of that blame on Brown's shoulder's.

But the one thing I do believe is that CLE could have beaten Boston had LBJ given his full effort every game. I don't know about ORL but I definitely felt like CLE had a chance w/ boston.

[wwharton]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

I don't see Kobe or Wade taking Lebron's teams to a championship those guys just don't have the skillset (or should I say specific type of game?) to take that team far. Especially for that "offense" Brown was running for that team.

I do think if you give Bron a new coach things would have been a little different though. Mo Will and Jamison I feel were a lot better then the way they played on CLE but I put most of that blame on Brown's shoulder's.

But the one thing I do believe is that CLE could have beaten Boston had LBJ given his full effort every game. I don't know about ORL but I definitely felt like CLE had a chance w/ boston.

What I was saying in a nutshell.

[jeebs9]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

Where is everyone getting this info about a planned movement by Bosh and LeBron? From blogs and posted stories. I mean is this stuff confirmed. Do they have these conversations recorded? Or did someone just put 2 and 2 together?...And find out it added up to 5 lol

Because to me it seems like people are reading those columns like they were actually news reports.

[Jasong7777]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

The problem is people won't admit that Bron quit.

[Brankles]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

Brankles is arguing that his teammates suck and that's who I was debating with... don't know where you came from on this one so maybe you should "stop even posting that nonsense" because the post you saw with that "garbage" in it is at the center of the debate we're currently having. Maybe you're just talking to yourself and we're interrupting you.



Hindsight is 20/20. The Lakers have constantly brought in players... when they win a championship, the players they brought in are finally the right pieces, lol. Odom was thought to be the perfect Pippen type player... and Butler was a better Ron Artest who could contribute big time on offense. Those are the "role players" you're talking about after Shaq left. Now you mention Odom as part of the solid group that's championship quality now. Gasol was looked at as a traditional soft euro player without enough heart when they lost in 08, and now that he has a ring, he's the best PF in the NBA.

Coming into this season the Cavs central pieces of James, Mo and Shaq were all the talk of why they'd finally win the championship and they went on to win 66 games AND added Jamison. If they had won everyone would be giving this supporting cast all the props every other supporting cast gets when a team wins the championship. You can look at the break down of stats posted and the numbers look about like they should, and that's considering they weren't used properly.

BTW, the offense didn't work all season. That's not the offense they ran all regular season and certainly not the same rotation. Hell, it's not even the offense/rotation they ran against the Celtics (effectively) during the regular season.

Either way, trying to look at it from a perspective of "history" as you say doesn't work if you're going to judge players on his team without looking at their history. On paper they stack up with the likes of the Lakers, Celtics and Magic. It's when you call Mo a "choke artist" or Jamison a "bum" or Shaq and Z "old" and completely dismiss the likes of Hickson and West who pretty much averaged double figure points and contributed in other ways that it makes your argument look better. These things aren't looking at history, they're vague descriptions to discredit individual and team stats that match up better than you want to admit.

And most importantly, even if the task was unprecedented and one of such significance that it's never happened before, seeing him shut it down during crucial minutes of playoff games and eliminating the chance of doing the unthinkable, unobtainable, unquestionable feat to cement him as the chosen one is not a reason to give him a pass. I really don't even understand that kind of logic even if I did believe his teammates were garbage that he was carrying on his back.

Why do you keep saying hindsight is 20/20? Is that your way of agreeing with me that the Lakers did a much better job of building a championship team, and that the Cavs roster is nothing but average, but without giving me too much credit?

Looking back on this season and the seasons before this, it's easy to view the Cavs roster as very average. At the time we didn't notice it because of what LeBron did for the team. He made everyone around him better, including coaches, teammates and the organization in general. Mo Williams in Milwaukee was a fantasy basketball stud but nothing else. Jamison you can say the same thing, all numbers, never on a truly winning team. Anthony Parker is a dime-a-dozen player. We've all seen Shaq play and he isn't near the player he was on the Heat years ago.

I wouldn't trade those four for any other of the starting four supporting casts on the Magic/Lakers/Celts. Or the Hawks, Jazz, Mavericks, Thunder, Blazers, Nuggets and Spurs.


And this is somewhat giving LeBron a pass, but mainly because everyone has been so harsh on him. Yes, he may have given up against the Celtics, but he took his team further and was more successful with them more than any other player in the league today could have been.

If Kobe was in his place, won 45 games with a roster similar to the Cavs and got knocked out in the first round, would that make him a loser with no leadership? Because he did that twice.

LeBron's standards are raised moreso than any other player in the league. It's almost as if he wasn't as good and if he didn't make his team so much better than they actually are, that you would be fine with him losing. If he wasn't so legendary on the court, that his defeats would be more palpable to you. But because you expected absolute greatness out of him and he failed, that you knock him down more than you would a player of less talent and ability.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

Well it's no secret how close they got during the Olympics. Before the great race to Summer 2010 began the talk and reports were always about the friendships developed between these guys. The fact that they all did they're contract extensions so that they could all opt out at the same time after having discussed at length playing together isn't like it's some kind of huge stretch to believe that this has been in the works for a loooooooong time. LeBron not killing talk about what he was going to do, Bosh's obviousness that he wasn't going back to Toronto, Wade being the only one actually loyal to his team through the whole leadup (not just this year either), Bosh's slip of the tongue during their Championship celebration and of course, Bron's insistance after the Boston series that "his team has a plan and they'll execute it." It's not really rocket science.

[jeebs9]

Re: LeBron James Signs With Miami Heat

The problem is people won't admit that Bron quit.

This my problem with saying LeBron "quit"...We all know that the ultimate hustle stat is rebounds. How could LeBron get 19 rebounds (triple double add the turnovers if you want too)....and people are saying he quit on the team? I mean its easy to say that because they lost.

But I will admit though. I had never seen LeBron play the way he did (that badly) since the Finals vs the Spurs. The Worst series of his career...I'll would say yes to that.

Well it's no secret how close they got during the Olympics. Before the great race to Summer 2010 began the talk and reports were always about the friendships developed between these guys. The fact that they all did they're contract extensions so that they could all opt out at the same time after having discussed at length playing together isn't like it's some kind of huge stretch to believe that this has been in the works for a loooooooong time. LeBron not killing talk about what he was going to do, Bosh's obviousness that he wasn't going back to Toronto, Wade being the only one actually loyal to his team through the whole leadup (not just this year either), Bosh's slip of the tongue during their Championship celebration and of course, Bron's insistance after the Boston series that "his team has a plan and they'll execute it." It's not really rocket science.

You got reports....Then you should believe that Delonte West was sleeping with LeBron's mother. You should believe that Tommy Hilfiger came on to Oprah's show and said he doesn't like black people wearing his clothes. You should believe Mike Piazza is gay. You should believe that Michael Jordan's give his fathers soul to the devil for talent.

Stop reading columns and blogs. And lets stop with the sources. Unless they are willing to come out and say it themselves. Lets stop the.....

Stick with the news.