The LeBron James Thread

[OSUFan_88]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

3) LeBron's hate didn't exactly start from The Decision. LeBron started turning people against him in Cleveland, first when he refused to shake hands with the Magic after losing.

I'll disagree with that.

The main thing in Cleveland that turned people against LeBron was when he uttered the "I spoil people with my play" line. Game 5 and pretty much everything from there on.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I'll disagree with that.

The main thing in Cleveland that turned people against LeBron was when he uttered the "I spoil people with my play" line. Game 5 and pretty much everything from there on.

I should've worded that better, I didn't mean the people in Cleveland, I was saying it as in 'while he was still in Cleveland.' People in Cleveland defended him through all that other bull**** up until the Boston series while everyone else started turning on him. I know I used to be a huge James fan until he started dancing up and down the sidelines when he was blowing teams out in Clevland.

[KSUowls]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Well, don't look to me to wish James well on his quest to win a ring.

He couldn't win in C-Town, so instead of trying to lure key free agents there and continuing to try, he quit and went to Miami to play with his boys. Took his ball and went home.

"When the going gets tough, quit", right LeBron?

That's a completely unfair critique. He couldn't win in C-Town because he didn't have any help and he couldn't get any help to come to him. This is often said in jest but there does seem to be some truth behind it "who would want to play and live in Cleveland when you have the choice of LA, NY, Chic, Miami, etc...?". I mean wasn't there some big free agent name this last offseason who outright said he would not play in Cleveland? In 6 or 7 years the 2 biggest acquisitions the Cavs made were Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison in the twilight of his career. Exactly how long was he supposed to wait for a big name to willingly come to Cleveland? As someone else mentioned if I were going to be criticized at home for not getting any rings or criticized for leaving to get rings. I'm going to take the criticism while looking at my shiny new ring.

[23]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I have no problem with people loving Jordan or think anybody should think less of him, BUT people are trying to condemn LeBron and praise Jordan based on personalities and IMO Jordan is worse by comparison.

I fail to realize what LeBron did to the game. Isn't it all about winning?

Im not down on LeBron myself or just up up on Jordan either... it wasnt the personality that people were just on him because of, because Jordan wasnt well liked when he first entered the NBA

Ultimately when a guy wins, some love him and some hate him. MJ went through the hard knocks and worked his way up to where he was, he wasnt given anything. He had to take down Magic, Bird, and a host of other powerhouses to achieve his success.... People respect that, and thats what it was all about in the end, all the way to the story book finish.

The league has changed alot now, you have a bunch of nobodies claiming to be experts, bloggers who are no more important than some writer on realgm, and fake insiders who claim to have sources who lie to try to get a leg up in their own business at whoever's expense.


Alot of these people go with the wind anyway, whoever is winning games is the man, no matter what.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

That's a completely unfair critique. He couldn't win in C-Town because he didn't have any help and he couldn't get any help to come to him. This is often said in jest but there does seem to be some truth behind it "who would want to play and live in Cleveland when you have the choice of LA, NY, Chic, Miami, etc...?". I mean wasn't there some big free agent name this last offseason who outright said he would not play in Cleveland? In 6 or 7 years the 2 biggest acquisitions the Cavs made were Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison in the twilight of his career. Exactly how long was he supposed to wait for a big name to willingly come to Cleveland? As someone else mentioned if I were going to be criticized at home for not getting any rings or criticized for leaving to get rings. I'm going to take the criticism while looking at my shiny new ring.

We can now officially flush this line down the friggin toilet. LeBron's Cavs could be in the ECFs right now. Miami wouldn't be near as good as they are, we see what happened with Boston, they would've been better than the Knicks still, they would've been better than the Hawks still and they would have at least had a shot against the Bulls. The Cavs could most definitely had won if LeBron stayed.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

That's a completely unfair critique. He couldn't win in C-Town because he didn't have any help

Fairly true...

and he couldn't get any help to come to him.

Fairly false...

Chris Bosh said he would have went to Cleveland if LeBron asked him to. Same with Ariza. LeBron would never commit though.

[lexus97man]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

QUOTE=23;2042430716]Im not down on LeBron myself or just up up on Jordan either... it wasnt the personality that people were just on him because of, because Jordan wasnt well liked when he first entered the NBA

Ultimately when a guy wins, some love him and some hate him. MJ went through the hard knocks and worked his way up to where he was, he wasnt given anything. He had to take down Magic, Bird, and a host of other powerhouses to achieve his success.... People respect that, and thats what it was all about in the end, all the way to the story book finish.

The league has changed alot not, you have a bunch of nobodies claiming to be experts, bloggers who are no more important than someone writer on realgm, and fake insiders who claim to have sources who lie to try to get a leg up in their own business at whoever's expense.


Alot of these people go with the wind anyway, whoever is winning games is the man, no matter what.[/QUOTE]

Agree with all of this

[KSUowls]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

We can now officially flush this line down the friggin toilet. LeBron's Cavs could be in the ECFs right now. Miami wouldn't be near as good as they are, we see what happened with Boston, they would've been better than the Knicks still, they would've been better than the Hawks still and they would have at least had a shot against the Bulls. The Cavs could most definitely had won if LeBron stayed.

They might (emphasis on might because Boston's collapse came at the hands of this Miami Heat team and not the Cavs) be in the ECFs right now. That's still a long way from the NBA finals and the ultimate goal of the ring though.

Do you really believe that the 1 act Cavs were better than the 1 act Bulls are now?? The Bulls play much better defense and the Cavs always struggled against good second chance point teams. Are they better than the Mavs? Would they be better than the Knicks after another offseason or 2?

Lets also not forget either that hindsight is 20/20. This time last year Cleveland had just been sent home early in the playoffs by Boston for the 2nd time in 3 years. This most recent loss a rather dominating one. That same Boston team was headed to the NBA finals again. The Cavs were just 1 year removed from getting mostly dominated in the playoffs by the Magic. Also, anything you think you might know now certainly wasn't remotely apparent 9-10 months ago when "the decision" was made.



@OSU

Unless I'm very much mistaken, and I don't believe I am after a quick google search, that while Lebron wanted Bosh in Cleveland Bosh made it clear that he did not want to be a member of the Cavs. Maybe he changed his mind late in the game and said he would have, though I don't really remember that being the case.

The only Ariza that comes to mind is Trevor Ariza who I can't imagine anyone getting super excited about unless the only piece you're missing is a good 6th man who plays good defense.

[jeebs9]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Yea I remember LeBron trying to get Bosh to come to the Cavs but Bosh wasn't willing to live in Cleveland or something along those lines.

[Pared]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Well, don't look to me to wish James well on his quest to win a ring.

He couldn't win in C-Town, so instead of trying to lure key free agents there and continuing to try, he quit and went to Miami to play with his boys. Took his ball and went home.

"When the going gets tough, quit", right LeBron?

Wouldn't it be "Take his ball and leave home"?

I think he "took his ball to South Beach."

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

They might (emphasis on might because Boston's collapse came at the hands of this Miami Heat team and not the Cavs) be in the ECFs right now. That's still a long way from the NBA finals and the ultimate goal of the ring though.

Do you really believe that the 1 act Cavs were better than the 1 act Bulls are now?? The Bulls play much better defense and the Cavs always struggled against good second chance point teams. Are they better than the Mavs? Would they be better than the Knicks after another offseason or 2?

Lets also not forget either that hindsight is 20/20. This time last year Cleveland had just been sent home early in the playoffs by Boston for the 2nd time in 3 years. This most recent loss a rather dominating one. That same Boston team was headed to the NBA finals again. The Cavs were just 1 year removed from getting mostly dominated in the playoffs by the Magic. Also, anything you think you might know now certainly wasn't remotely apparent 9-10 months ago when "the decision" was made.



@OSU

Unless I'm very much mistaken, and I don't believe I am after a quick google search, that while Lebron wanted Bosh in Cleveland Bosh made it clear that he did not want to be a member of the Cavs. Maybe he changed his mind late in the game and said he would have, though I don't really remember that being the case.

The only Ariza that comes to mind is Trevor Ariza who I can't imagine anyone getting super excited about unless the only piece you're missing is a good 6th man who plays good defense.

I'd say you're mistaken as that and many other things have been discussed throughout this thread. I won't go into it again bc of that, but I also don't blame you for not wanting to go through and see either. Maybe do a google search within this thread, lol.

I'm also surprised OSUFan didn't mention it (probably trying hard not to rehash these things too) but it's pretty well known that Lebron didn't do much of anything to help bring players to the Cavs to go along with his lack of commitment hurting any chance of the front office bringing anyone in.

[KSUowls]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I'd say you're mistaken as that and many other things have been discussed throughout this thread. I won't go into it again bc of that, but I also don't blame you for not wanting to go through and see either. Maybe do a google search within this thread, lol.

I'm also surprised OSUFan didn't mention it (probably trying hard not to rehash these things too) but it's pretty well known that Lebron didn't do much of anything to help bring players to the Cavs to go along with his lack of commitment hurting any chance of the front office bringing anyone in.

Yeah at over 900 pages I'm not too interested in looking for specific posts :P.

If you are referring to the Bosh thing I was going from memory, but I did do a google search before I made that post to confirm what I already thought remembered correctly. I found some things that confirmed what I remembered about Bosh basically saying Cleveland was not a place he would want to live. I know that definitely happened, but I will concede that I don't know for sure if Bosh ever came out and said at a later date that he would be willing to play at Cleveland.

Your 2nd point may very well be accurate, and I don't know anything that could really refute it. If that's true though it does show that he wanted out of Cleveland (which if I always believed he did anyway). To be perfectly honest though, I don't see what the big deal is. I can understand Cleveland fans being upset about their guy leaving, but I've always wondered why should that be some huge knock on a guy (especially to every non-cav fan). He's his own person looking out for his own self interest. The only thing I really think you can blame him for is not outright saying he wanted out. I think that would be fair criticism, but I can't really blame him for not wanting to come out publicly with something that would have brought it's own amount of criticism.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Yeah at over 900 pages I'm not too interested in looking for specific posts :P.

If you are referring to the Bosh thing I was going from memory, but I did do a google search before I made that post to confirm what I already thought remembered correctly. I found some things that confirmed what I remembered about Bosh basically saying Cleveland was not a place he would want to live. I know that definitely happened, but I will concede that I don't know for sure if Bosh ever came out and said at a later date that he would be willing to play at Cleveland.

Your 2nd point may very well be accurate, and I don't know anything that could really refute it. If that's true though it does show that he wanted out of Cleveland (which if I always believed he did anyway). To be perfectly honest though, I don't see what the big deal is. I can understand Cleveland fans being upset about their guy leaving, but I've always wondered why should that be some huge knock on a guy (especially to every non-cav fan). He's his own person looking out for his own self interest. The only thing I really think you can blame him for is not outright saying he wanted out. I think that would be fair criticism, but I can't really blame him for not wanting to come out publicly with something that would have brought it's own amount of criticism.

That's the thing. The discussion about what James did or didn't say to other players etc wouldn't be found in any interviews so even what has been posted here can be taken with a grain of salt. The thing is, outside of Cleveland, the issues with James are squarely related to how he carries himself, what he's said, how he did what he did, etc.

I would say the criticism about him actually leaving (and not how it went down) comes from him coming into the league already crowned the "king", wearing #23 and acting as if he was already an all time great who was so good he'd even bring the Cavs multiple championships. That's how he carried it. So when he NEEDED to leave to continue that type of bravado it turns people off... especially since he did carry himself the same way throughout the entire process, including the huge party in Miami.

That's still a much smaller reason he's continued to get criticized, but I think outside of Cavs fans (and really people of Cleveland) I think that's the reason why anyone would get on him for just leaving at all. He's not the first or last superstar to leave, but the only one to get this kind of reaction... it's not just out of the blue.

[KSUowls]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Yeah it isn't out of the blue. As with almost any superstar he's always been a bit of a polarizing figure. Also, he certainly had an air of arrogance about him always, but I think it's extremely overblown by certain segments. It was there, but the he isn't exactly Floyd Mayweather out there. He's had his bad moments, but I think generally speaking he's always been the kind of person who says the right things. What I think has happened though is any time one of those bad moments happen everyone makes a big deal out of it and all the "good" moments just go on ignored.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Are people still really trying to figure out why Jordan get's love and LeBron doesn't? Everybody here has shown themselves to be fairly intelligent people, this shouldn't be this hard.

1) The internet wasn't available to everyone from rich bastards, to your baby brother all the way to your grandma. That's head and shoulders the first and biggest reason of them all.

2) Jordan was never stupid enough to tell anyone that his goal was to be a billionaire. Jordan never called himself the greatess, he never called himself the Chosen One or any other stupid **** like that. Whether it was the case or not, he made sure that people knew that his main focus was winning. There was never ANY question whatsoever if Michael Jordan's focus was winning. LeBron? Not so much. LeBron let people know that he was trying to be a billionaire and he's always given off the vibe that winning is an afterthought to him and it's only function is to help him get to that billionaire's goal of his.

3) LeBron's hate didn't exactly start from The Decision. LeBron started turning people against him while in Cleveland, first when he refused to shake hands with the Magic after losing. The Detroit Pistons can tell you that things like that piss people off. LeBron's dancing up and down the sideline got him lots of criticism. I know we wanna paint a different picture now as if it didn't to make our point, but people got on LeBron's *** for that. His love was still high at that point so it didn't get out of control. The elbow and subsequent quitting in the playoffs brought the hatred more out of him and the summer free agency tour was the icing on the cake. Learning about his boys that had free reign on the Cavs and how cutting them off possibly played a role in his 'decision,' all of that played a part so I don't get why people are acting like LeBron just started getting hate for no reason and he's no different than Michael Jordan.

I'm sure there's more, but I've typed enough on this for now.

Number 3 is the most important one so let's make sure everyone here understands this and stop with the "I don't understand why" Bull****.

As for Jordan, it's common knowledge that the man was an ***hole and that ain't even arguable and I can safely say that Lebron has yet to reach the Jordan levels of ***holeness and for his sake, I hope he doesn't otherwise....