The LeBron James Thread

**JBH3** · 06-14-2011, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Drewski

Not saying Lebron is Pippen's equivalent. Lebron is Lebron. Just look at those numbers and tell me it's not hauntingly similar.

Its not...Lebron's first finals were spent against a stout defensive spurs team where he was the #1 option. His FGAs are requesite of that....besides this was only 4 gamed against a much better opponent and in which in his very first finals game he only scored 14 pts on 4-16 shooting. He then would score no less than 24 in the next 3 games.....again....Finals=too small a sample size and the players are apples vs oranges...lebron was the first option pippen was ALWAYS 2nd.

**Drewski** · 06-14-2011, 11:59 AM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Originally posted by JBH3

Its not...Lebron's first finals were spent against a stout defensive spurs team where he was the #1 option. His FGAs are requesite of that....besides this was only 4 gamed against a much better opponent and in which in his very first finals game he only scored 14 pts on 4-16 shooting. He then would score no less than 24 in the next 3 games.....again....Finals=too small a sample size and the players are apples vs oranges...lebron was the first option pippen was ALWAYS 2nd.

You're talking about the 1st finals now, I'm confused.

I'm solely talking about LEBRONS SECOND finals run, the one we just witnessed. Not the one against the Spurs. Just these last six games.

I'm talking about Pippens (6) games against Portland (91-92).

Scroll down to get to the Finals on each of those links. I'm not saying Lebron's career is chalked up to be only that of Pippen's, or vice versa. Just solely looking at those two series. It's nothing more than that.

**JBH3** · 06-14-2011, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Drewski

You're talking about the 1st finals now, I'm confused.

I'm solely talking about LEBRONS SECOND finals run, the one we just witnessed. Not the one against the Spurs. Just these last six games.

I'm talking about Pippens (6) games against Portland (91-92).

Scroll down to get to the Finals on each of those links. I'm not saying Lebron's career is chalked up to be only that of Pippen's, or vice versa. Just solely looking at those two series. It's nothing more than that.

I thought you had referenced Lebrons first two finals apps, versus Pippens first two. I was breaking down Lebrons first finals app to solidfy my point.

Honestly.....its obvious to see that if there are any Lebron/Pippen comparisons its only because Lebron has REGRESSED since he was on the fast track to becoming "the next jordan"....to be honest statistical comps aside, his decision to go play with Wade is evident that he wanted to be in a secondary-type role.

**Drewski** · 06-14-2011, 12:21 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Originally posted by JBH3

I thought you had referenced Lebrons first two finals apps, versus Pippens first two. I was breaking down Lebrons first finals app to solidfy my point.

Honestly.....its obvious to see that if there are any Lebron/Pippen comparisons its only because Lebron has REGRESSED since he was on the fast track to becoming "the next jordan"....to be honest statistical comps aside, his decision to go play with Wade is evident that he wanted to be in a secondary-type role.

I see what you're getting at with the first one - that's true. His first finals he was the man, he was young, and he had the Popovich defense to go up against. Definitely can't compare that situation.

Not sure if he wanted to be a secondary role player when he went to Miami, but it sure looked like it the way he Hot Potato'd the ball whenever it touched his hands. Can't help but wonder if it's time to start considering Lebron as a second fiddle type. Think it is far too soon and raw to relegate that to him - he played a great playoffs outside of this series - but it's the series that mattered the most, and the one that will leave a lasting impression until we see otherwise.

**JBH3** · 06-14-2011, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by Drewski

I see what you're getting at with the first one - that's true. His first finals he was the man, he was young, and he had the Popovich defense to go up against. Definitely can't compare that situation.

Not sure if he wanted to be a secondary role player when he went to Miami, but it sure looked like it the way he Hot Potato'd the ball whenever it touched his hands. Can't help but wonder if it's time to start considering Lebron as a second fiddle type. Think it is far too soon and raw to relegate that to him - he played a great playoffs outside of this series - but it's the series that mattered the most, and the one that will leave a lasting impression until we see otherwise.

Agree. The Finals is what will make or break you. Once his struggles in the 4th began, he did play hot potatoe, and he seemed to give up on defense too. He still has not commanded the leadership role...he was in that role by default of talent in CLE, but he is second fiddle to Wade IMO.

**airjoca** · 06-14-2011, 12:57 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Originally posted by 1Rose

Should of been 7 for 7 in the Finals. Damn you baseball.

Don't you mean 8 for 8? Would've been cool to see MJ x Dream.

Anyways, whoever said no one is comparable to Jordan is right. Last night I was switching between NBATV that had Bulls x Jazz - 1997, Game 5, the Flu Game, and Sporttv (Portuguese sports channel) that was showing game 6 of this years Finals.

Man, there's no comparision between a very sick, 34 year old Michael Jordan to a very healty, in his prime, 26 year old LeBron James.

Near the end of both games, LBJ was afraid of the rock, MJ demanded it. And you knew he was going to find a way to win, his own expectations of himself were even higher than ours. He was a god among men, and I don't think I'll live to see someone that surpasses him.

**1Rose** · 06-14-2011, 01:02 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Yeah, that was me.

And yea 8 for 8 I meant.

**jeebs9** · 06-14-2011, 01:21 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I point this years problem with taking over the game because of the zone. When a team plays zone on you. Your suppose to move the ball around. Your just not going to have the same chance Jordan had to take over the game. In a man to man defense the chances (isolation) are move likely to take over the game. Zone defenses totally take away this factor. Back in the day you could probably get away with more hero ball compared to now days. When ball movement is so much more important. The illegal defense kept defenses from closing driving lanes down.

Also this is not an excuse. LeBron had severally chances to prove himself clutch in this years finals. I'm just bring up a point that we should consider. The game is totally different for starsupers now a days compared to back then.

**mKoz26** · 06-14-2011, 01:28 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Originally posted by Altimus

Kerr on all this:

Pretty spot on.

I don't know where the idea that LeBron doesn't have a mid-range jumpshot came from, but it's completely false. Kerr is way off there. He's not freaking Rajon Rondo or something. He has one of the best mid-range shots in the league.

**1Rose** · 06-14-2011, 01:29 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I hate this notion that somehow the zone is all of a sudden SO unbeatable, if anything with Wade and LeBron on the court, they should of ripped the zone apart by being able to get into the lane. It's their (LeBron's) fault that he wanted to stand there like a bystander. If he would of attacked, could of created alot of oppurtunities for the Heat.

Originally posted by jeebs9

The game is totally different for starsupers now a days compared to back then

You're right, it's easier...

**Altimus** · 06-14-2011, 01:32 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Who said he's Rondo? And no, he doesn't have one of the best mid range shots in the game. I could name a ton of players I rather have taking a mid range shot with the clock going down. Driving to the rim is a different story though.

**jeebs9** · 06-14-2011, 01:43 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Originally posted by 1Rose

I hate this notion that somehow the zone is all of a sudden SO unbeatable, if anything with Wade and LeBron on the court, they should of ripped the zone apart by being able to get into the lane. It's their (LeBron's) fault that he wanted to stand there like a bystander. If he would of attacked, could of created alot of oppurtunities for the Heat.

You're right, it's easier...

Your trying to play word games I don't like lol.

Just try to picture the different. Back in the illegal defense day. Jordan or players from back then had more attacking lanes because players had to either double team or play man to man. They couldn't just take up a space. Which is what happens now days. The attacking lanes your talking about are not there anymore. Where as Jordan was facing a primary defender and then a secondary on the drive. LeBron, Wade and other are facing a primary, secondary (in the lane) and the help defender on the drive.

**mKoz26** · 06-14-2011, 01:51 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Originally posted by Altimus

Who said he's Rondo? And no, he doesn't have one of the best mid range shots in the game. I could name a ton of players I rather have taking a mid range shot with the clock going down. Driving to the rim is a different story though.

"no mid-range jump shot"

That's something I'd say about Rondo.

And if you're taking a ton of players over LeBron, you're going to miss out on a ton of points. We already did the stats in the Finals thread. Search the thread for them and tell me afterwards if you still believe LeBron has "no mid-range jump shot".

23 · 06-14-2011, 01:53 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Originally posted by jeebs9

Your trying to play word games I don't like lol.

Just try to picture the different. Back in the illegal defense day. Jordan or players from back then had more attacking lanes because players had to either double team or play man to man. They couldn't just take up a space. Which is what happens now days. The attacking lanes your talking about are not there anymore. Where as Jordan was facing a primary defender and then a secondary on the drive. LeBron, Wade and other are facing a primary, secondary (in the lane) and the help defender on the drive.

MJ hardly had free lanes to go into, and while illegal defense made you make a choice, you still had time to figure out which one you wanted to do

Point is though, this dude killed whatever defense was thrown at him..thats why as an injured 40 year old he was still putting up 40 and 50 point games

Check out the videos on youtube MJ vs zone defenses

**Altimus** · 06-14-2011, 01:54 PM

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Originally posted by mKoz26

"no mid-range jump shot"

That's something I'd say about Rondo.

And if you're taking a ton of players over LeBron, you're going to miss out on a ton of points. We already did the stats in the Finals thread. Search the thread for them and tell me afterwards if you still believe LeBron has "no mid-range jump shot".

First of all, Kerr said it not me. Where was his shot throughout the Finals? But that's beside the point. His opinion of LBJ being closer to Pippen's game than Jordan is correct I believe. Not talking about talent VS talent. I've always taught that LBJ was closer to Magic over anyone else.

I never said he has no mid range shot so check your facts. His mid range shot leaves much to be desired.

Also I never said I'd take a ton of players over LBJ, just over a final possession mid range shot. One that comes immediately to mind is Carmelo.

The LeBron James Thread

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