The LeBron James Thread

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Yes, it is.

Yes, yes it is.

This is true, but the comparison is still no where close. Leave the **** alone. LeBron is a fantastic player, and the best of this generation bar none, but his game is no where in the class of Michael's and never will be. Let the man live. Jesus.

Not close and no where in the his class is a bit strong 13, especially the never will be part, at least in terms of strictly as a basketball player as OJ was talking LeBron's game is on point and while the comparisons are ridiculous at this point it's not that ridiculous of a notion to put them in the same sentence.

It would be nice to lose all these qualifier comparisons though. Like now we gotta hear about how he's at a better pace than Jordan. It's like people are saying 'well I can't say he's better than Jordan right now, so I'll talk about he's better than Jordan was at this age as a sneaky way to say he's better overall.'

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Offensively, LBJ is just as good as MJ going to the basket if not better. What he lacks in terms of MJ's first step and agility he makes up for with his brute strength and explosive vert. The results are the same, just comes down to the style you prefer. I do think LBJ takes too long holding the ball in a lot of situations though. MJ had a much more varied and skilled game shooting off the dribble and in the post. In both these areas LBJ still has a good ways to go. He's merely good to very good whereas MJ was exceptional. LBJ also doesn't move as well without the ball and therefore winds up getting the ball in spots that aren't ideal for him. The gap in these areas where he's lacking has definitely shrunk and its perfectly possible for him to continue to refine his game. If the comparison is simply skill set for skill set LBJ could get close. He's already lost the legacy war though.

[JODYE]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Not close and no where in the his class is a bit strong 13, especially the never will be part, at least in terms of strictly as a basketball player as OJ was talking LeBron's game is on point and while the comparisons are ridiculous at this point it's not that ridiculous of a notion to put them in the same sentence.

It would be nice to lose all these qualifier comparisons though. Like now we gotta hear about how he's at a better pace than Jordan. It's like people are saying 'well I can't say he's better than Jordan right now, so I'll talk about he's better than Jordan was at this age as a sneaky way to say he's better overall.'

I think the statement was appropriate personally. No knock to you King.

Jordan was superior and is superior to LeBron in nearly every facet of the game. From mental, to footwork in the post, to fundamental on ball defense, to finishing at the rim and the touch he had with the ball, to situational awareness within the game and what was needed.

Again, LeBron is an amazing player, clearly the best player in the world at this moment, but that's all relative.

Offensively, LBJ is just as good as MJ going to the basket if not better. What he lacks in terms of MJ's first step and agility he makes up for with his brute strength and explosive vert. The results are the same, just comes down to the style you prefer. I do think LBJ takes too long holding the ball in a lot of situations though. MJ had a much more varied and skilled game shooting off the dribble and in the post. In both these areas LBJ still has a good ways to go. He's merely good to very good whereas MJ was exceptional. LBJ also doesn't move as well without the ball and therefore winds up getting the ball in spots that aren't ideal for him. The gap in these areas where he's lacking has definitely shrunk and its perfectly possible for him to continue to refine his game. If the comparison is simply skill set for skill set LBJ could get close. He's already lost the legacy war though.

Define better. If barreling through the lane, forearming people praying for a call is better, than I guess so. Yes, his brute strength along with his explosiveness allows him to be successful and in the league today that works, but that doesn't make him better. I think you're underestimating the explosiveness that Jordan also possessed.

MJ's offensive repertoire in regards to the moves he had at his disposal to get through the lane or to create space from a defender, or to finish at the rim trump LeBron ten fold.

I'd also love to see a game where a team defending Jordan literally conceded a specific area of the court and let him work at his discretion and the strategy be successful as it was for the Spurs against LeBron for the first 6 games of the series.

Again, as much as I hate the Heat, I will agree to the umpteenth degree, that LeBron is the greatest most complete player we have laid our eyes on since Jordan, but as far as a class of player and complete abilities, he shouldn't even be close to the same bracket of conversation. People need to realize that there isn't anything wrong with that. People have this obsessive need to label anything and everyone the greatest, and it's ridiculous.

[The 24th Letter]

I think I'd agree with most of that Marlowe except LBJ not being able to play off the ball...when Chalmers is having a high IQ game it it works out pretty well....worked even better with Mo Williams...

I especially agree with LBJ holding the ball though...It seems like he operated off a live dribble a lot more early in his career...doesn't really seem to have a crossover to throw his defender off balance...

[BringTheHeat]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

"I know it wasn't the magnitude of MJ hitting that shot in '98, but I definitely thought about him, it was an MJ moment... It was an LJ moment." - LeBron James on his big Game 7 shot.

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Define better. If barreling through the lane, forearming people praying for a call is better, than I guess so. Yes, his brute strength along with his explosiveness allows him to be successful and in the league today that works, but that doesn't make him better. I think you're underestimating the explosiveness that Jordan also possessed.

My statement was simply describing the end result. The bucket. Simple as that. The how, where, and whys are a different argument. The rest of what you say is relevant to anything I've posted.

[The 24th Letter]

I'm sorry, but LBJ skill at going to the rim is far beyond forearming people on the way to rim looking for a bailout, that's nonsense...he probably got the least amount of "superstar calls" ive seen through this playoff run and was still effective...

[RedSceptile]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Jordan definitely trumps LeBron in certain facets of the game but the gap on other levels and even some of these levels isn't as giant as you're making it out to be. James is still as he hassaid developing his game no one person is a perfect ball player. Jordan from his firsr year to his first championship to his last is as different a player as LeBron was from year one to Dallas to now.

[BringTheHeat]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Pat Riley on LeBron James:

"If the league will allow the NBA to stop tackling him at halfcourt he'll get an extra 6 FT attempts per game.''

"Our goal is to get him over 90 percent from the free-throw line.''

[JODYE]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I'm sorry, but LBJ skill at going to the rim is far beyond forearming people on the way to rim looking for a bailout, that's nonsense...he probably got the least amount of "superstar calls" ive seen through this playoff run and was still effective...

The forearm statement was hyperbole, but outside of using momentum and his weight/strength to force his way to the hoop, there is nothing overly techincal about his methods of scoring in the paint. Being so effiecient is more of a testament to the lack of true defensive front courts as it is his actual ability as an elite finisher in the half court. He gets most of his easy looks at the rim in transition, which is created by his off ball defense or the Heat being big at gambling in the passing lanes.

Obviously the goal is still to put the ball in the basket, and relative to the league, LeBron is the best at finishing today, but in relation to Jordan's craftiness around the rim, there isn't a comparison.

Jordan definitely trumps LeBron in certain facets of the game but the gap on other levels and even some of these levels isn't as giant as you're making it out to be. James is still as he hassaid developing his game no one person is a perfect ball player. Jordan from his firsr year to his first championship to his last is as different a player as LeBron was from year one to Dallas to now.

Specify?

No doubt LeBron has gotten better, but how much better can he become at what will be 29 years old next year? Everyone does have a ceiling still. LeBron is not exempt to this reality.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

13 has made a series of great posts. Rather than the usual "I really wish guys would just let LBJ live and stop with the stupid comparisons" I'll add to some things he already said.

Lebron James is Ivan Drago (Rocky 4, youngins). He's got the perfect body, the speed, the size and is very skilled. Pair that with a very high basketball IQ and, like Drago, the question seems to be when rather than if he proves to be the best basketball player ever.

The problem is having all of the tools doesn't make it necessarily true. He still hasn't been able to fully put it all together on a consistent basis. His flashes come more frequently, and his average games are still MVP worthy, but in comparison to Jordan that's just not good enough.

Jordan did whatever he felt necessary to win, right or wrong... he just did, and his skills proved to be good enough to make it happen. James, on the other hand still thinks. He has the skills to just "do" but he still hasn't consistently done it. As mentioned that's how the Spurs can gameplan to slow him down. That's how he can end up with bad turnovers late in a game (that are forgotten after Allen's big 3, and them closing out the Pacers).

He's still getting better and maybe one day it will all just come natural... but we can not and should not assume it will happen. If and when it does happen, we can talk about him based on it. But this is why it doesn't make sense to try to make comparisons now. I don't care how big that gap is between this skill or that skill, there's still a gap so why talk about it? What satisfaction is it showing that he's closer to the best ever, or has the potential? Just let him play and grow and enjoy the process.

Someone mentioned how today's Lebron is different than 2 years ago, and Jordan was different at the end. Instead of using that as a defense for making the comparison how about as a reason to stop comparing right now all together?

[ojandpizza]

I'm just saying from Jordan's rookie year through his first two rings he wasn't considered the consensus "better than Magic" player.. Some believed he was there, some didnt.. LeBron is going through this right now.. I don't think people were marveling at Jordan's "anything to win" attitude when he was losing to the Pistons.

The guy had flaws just like any player had flaws.. He's my favorite player of all time, the best player of all time, but he didn't do everything just perfect. He has blemishes on his résumé just like every other player does. It's great that we don't forget how great he was, but it's another thing to remember back and make everything about him un-touchable..

Again I'll say that if I look at them from just how good they are at playing the game of basketball, not how many rings, not whose bigger or stronger, not who's more competitive, not who dresses better, or whatever other aspect we want to add it, but just on how good is this guy at basketball then I think LeBron is right up there with him.

[wwharton]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I'm just saying from Jordan's rookie year through his first two rings he wasn't considered the consensus "better than Magic" player.. Some believed he was there, some didnt.. LeBron is going through this right now.. I don't think people were marveling at Jordan's "anything to win" attitude when he was losing to the Pistons.

The guy had flaws just like any player had flaws.. He's my favorite player of all time, the best player of all time, but he didn't do everything just perfect. He has blemishes on his résumé just like every other player does. It's great that we don't forget how great he was, but it's another thing to remember back and make everything about him un-touchable..

Again I'll say that if I look at them from just how good they are at playing the game of basketball, not how many rings, not whose bigger or stronger, not who's more competitive, not who dresses better, or whatever other aspect we want to add it, but just on how good is this guy at basketball then I think LeBron is right up there with him.

Yes and I care about what Jordan was his rookie year as much as I care about Lebron's "legacy" right now... which is my point. The day he passes Jordan in his prime I'll personally say he's passed Jordan in his prime. Until then, I don't know what the point of talking about it is.

People want to dig up stats where James may look better but dismiss stats where Jordan is better... now it's throw all the stats and rings out and do the eye test, lol. The eye test still tells me I'm taking Jordan 8 days a week. There may be a day when that changes but until then why can't we just appreciate what James is doing without trying to force himinto a spot he clearly hasn't earned yet? To bring up flaws Jordan had his rookie year to help the kid out should say something in and of itself.

[The 24th Letter]

.
Jordan did whatever he felt necessary to win, right or wrong... he just did, and his skills proved to be good enough to make it happen. James, on the other hand still thinks. He has the skills to just "do" but he still hasn't consistently done it. As mentioned that's how the Spurs can gameplan to slow him down. That's how he can end up with bad turnovers late in a game (that are forgotten after Allen's big 3, and them closing out the Pacers).

I agree with your post in general, (although I do think LBJ's 2012 run was a complete postseason) but I think we have to stop itemizing performances like this when it comes to LeBron

LBJ isn't the first elite player to be slowed down by a game plan, or have a role player step up at an opportune time...I think the most important part of the situation is that he got through it...at the end of the day, he delivered in Games 6, 7..

Nobody says "Tim Duncan won a title despite struggling with PHX
's gameplan and Amares athleticism in the conf finals"

If we want to get rid of crazy qualifiers for comparisons, this needs to be one of them as well..

[ojandpizza]

I didn't bring up flaws Jordan had as a rookie lol???

I said from his rookie season through his first two rings (where LeBron is now) not everyone liked him being compared to Magic just yet.. Again, where LeBron is now with the Jordan comparisons.

I took the stats and everything else out just because you can make it one-sided for either player using all that.. I just wanted it simple

I liked the eye-test and just comparing them as basketball players, because its impossible to compare them other wise.. They played in a different era, different position, in different systems, and have a completely different style.. Comparing them in a sense of just how good they are at all basketball is the only way that seemed reasonable to me..

Your "eye-test" says they are way off, mines says they aren't, it's fine we don't have the same opinion.. You take Jordan 8/7 days a week, I'll take him 4/7 days a week.