"I Could Score 100."

[RayAllen20]

Re: "I Could Score 100."

I don't think you guys realize how crazy it is to score 100 in a game...Wilt Chamberlain took 63 shots and 32 free throws just to get to it!!!

MJ, Kobe, or LeBron I do think could do it, but some things would have to happen.


1. They'd have to be matched up against a terrible defense, and a team that plays up-tempo. Knicks or Warriors come to mind here.

2. They'd have to be absolutely feeling it. I mean like hitting atleast 10 3's.

3. They'd have to get a lot, a lot of calls to get to the free throw line. Then they'd have to hit a lot of free throws.

4. The teammates and coach of this player would have to sacrifice their shots, and basically give it to that player every possession. Wilt's coach told his team in the second half to give Wilt the ball every play.

5. The other team would have to be close in the game, because if not, then they'd put 4 guys on the man, just to not let him score 100.

6. The coach would have to do use some weird tactics. Wilt's coach fouled the opposing team every possession just to get more time on the clock for Wilt.


And the chances of those 6 things happening are insane. Plus the defense when Wilt played, wasn't even close to today's defense. I mean, his team scored 169 and gave up 147. Really it wasn't even like a real game. It was basically just a game to get Wilt a 100.

So, no I don't think this would've/will ever happen.

[dragonyeuw]

Re: "I Could Score 100."

Circumstances certainly play a factor. Which is why I often hear people argue that Kobe's 81 is the more impressive scoring game. Of course, not the higher scoring game, but more impressive. You also have to consider the futility of Kobe's teammates in that game,versus who Jordan played with. By the time Jordan reached his prime as a scorer and player, Pippen and Grant were developing as reliable teammates, so the need to score 80 points or more wasn't there. By contrast, Kobe was playing with Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Chris Mihm in the lineup when he hit 81. He effectively had carte blanche to shoot till his heart's content, with that caliber of teammates around him.

[Cebby]

Re: "I Could Score 100."

So, what you're saying is, Jordan in regular mode isn't better than when Kobe is very hot..... In that case, when Jordan is in unstoppable mode, and Kobe is in unstoppable mode, who's better? Are you saying Kobe's unstoppable-ness is better than Jordan's unstoppable-ness?

Absolutely

Kobe has a better all around offensive game than anyone in history because he can hit the three pointer which Jordan cannot.

Kobe's offensive skillset with the addition of his post moves is unparalleled in the NBA's history.

[sportzbro]

Re: "I Could Score 100."

he could probably do it against the T-Wolves, this year lol

[TMagic]

Re: "I Could Score 100."

The thing about the handchecking during Jordan's day, a player could essentially place his forearm right in your hip, and you'd have one hell of a time getting free for your jumpshot, and especially getting to the basket, as he could ride you all the way in untill defenders converged in the paint. Then you have to consider the league had more true 7 foot centers waiting for you at the rim. I don't see how today's rules in any way limit a prime Michael Jordan.

I personally believe the zone defense of today is not being looked at in the right context. We aren't talking about organized zones like the 2-3 or 3-2. Teams rarely employ these schemes in today's game.

When we are talking about todays zone, we are talking about the removal of the illegal defense call. This essentially allows a defensive player to wander anywhere he wants to on the court and not have to be within the proximity of another player on offense.

This allows help defense to be in place BEFORE an offensive player makes a move toward the rim.

Back then, we saw a lot more iso's. Guys really clearing the floor, going out to the perimeter, taking their defender away from the basket, and giving there best offensive player plenty of space to work.

In today's game, we see a lot less iso's even with the games best players. I believe it has a lot to do with the fact that it doesn't matter if an offensive player clears out to the perimeter. With no illegal defense call, the defender does not have to go with him and can stand pat and in good position to help. So the floor is not going to be clear even if an Iso is called on offense.

This makes it harder to get to the rim and is the reason a guy like Kobe takes more jumpers as opposed to going to the rim. It's not because he can't drive well. So I personally believe that Jordan's driving ability would not be as effective as it was back then because he'd now have a guy already in position, waiting on him to help whenever he made a move towards the basket.

Back then, it seemed that help defense arrived late, at least compared to today's help. Then a player might be met at the rim, as opposed to the free throw line or a little lower today. I feel this was primarily the result of defenders then having to stay within range of their man (no floating on D) or they had to fully commit to a double team. With the removal of illegal defense today, help is able to get better position and with good timing.

We don't see coaches sending 2 or 3 guys to double or triple team an elite perimeter player like Kobe, Bron, and Wade the same way they would with Jordan and other perimeter players in Jordan's era. It's not because today's players aren't as good. It's because with the removal of illegal defense coaches don't have to send a defender way out of good position to double team. It's much better to have four guys in position to help on the way to the basket than to send 2 or 3 guys, have them get beat and then be left with only 2 guys to defend on offense.

A couple tiny things that I think show that help defense is better now than it was then is that we see a lot more guys being able to beat the offensive player to a spot to take a charge. As well as a lot less posterization dunks. That's how guys get dunked on, arriving late. Back then I remember seeing a lot more guys getting dunked on. Doesn't seem to happen as much today. Like I said, their little things, but I think they are the result of better help defense today.

Basically, back then, defenses had react to a player on offense. This, as opposed to being in position before the player makes a move. With a player as great as Jordan, by the time a defense reacts, it's already too late. Defense today is much smarter than it was then.

Even if you limit his drives, and you have to think he'd still be a great slasher today if guys like Wade and Lebron can get to the basket, his midrange game is so deadly that he can still do major damage from outside, and with the ticky tack fouls, he'd be on the free throw line 15 times a night. Let's think about this for a minute: Wade and Lebron are 27-30 ppg guys, without a truly deadly outside game( though both have improved in recent years). Jordan in his prime, combined a deadly midrange game( ala Kobe), with the slashing ability of Wade and the finishing ability of Lebron. If anything, Jordan's game is IDEAL for today's NBA, not hindered by it.

Where do you guys pick up this whole "ticky tack" foul thing from? There were more free throws taken back then than there are now. Free throw attempts have gone down.

Just for example, in 1996, the league average was 26.39 FTA per game. Last year, the league average was 24.55 FTA per game. That holds true even though today's game is played at a faster pace.

What seems to get overlooked often is that Jordan in 2002, which would be basically under the current rules and against most of today's major stars, was averaging 25 points per game( before an injury disrupted his season), and 20ppg the following season, at 40 years old, after 3 years away from the game, tendinitis in both knees and a surgically repaired shooting hand. Taking that into consideration, why would a prime Michael Jordan, at the apex of his abilities, not be as dominant now as in his prime?

I don't think that can be used as a barometer. Teams weren't guarding Jordan like he was prime Jordan. He wasn't seeing the same defenses as a LeBron or Wade. Plus he was taking 22 shots a game to average 22 points on 41% shooting. To put things into perspective...

LeBron averaged 20 per game
Kobe 21.5
Durant 20.3
Wade 19.6
Melo 21.8

He would shoot the ball MORE than all of those guys did over the coarse of a game to average the 22 points he did that year. While impressive at his age to be putting up 22, by no means can you use that as a gauge to say he would murder the league in his prime.


Nobody is denying that Jordan would be good. That's not what people are saying at all.

Just that it's a little much to assume that Jordan would come into the league in today's game and be as if he turned Super Saiyin 4 just because of the way the game is played now. Way too many factors involved to jump to that conclusion and also say that he could definitely score 100.

[dragonyeuw]

Re: "I Could Score 100."

Absolutely

Kobe has a better all around offensive game than anyone in history because he can hit the three pointer which Jordan cannot.

Kobe's offensive skillset with the addition of his post moves is unparalleled in the NBA's history.

Then again Jordan's post game is better, his midrange is a bit better, and generally takes smarter shots. I think that balances out Kobe's 3pt shooting superiority.

[Muzyk23]

Re: "I Could Score 100."

Absolutely

Kobe has a better all around offensive game than anyone in history because he can hit the three pointer which Jordan cannot.

Kobe's offensive skillset with the addition of his post moves is unparalleled in the NBA's history.

I will take Jordan's shot selection over Bryant's 3 pointers. If Bryant scored 81 against Raptors that day Jordan could easily do the same.

[RonnieG]

Re: "I Could Score 100."

I personally believe the zone defense of today is not being looked at in the right context. We aren't talking about organized zones like the 2-3 or 3-2. Teams rarely employ these schemes in today's game.

When we are talking about todays zone, we are talking about the removal of the illegal defense call. This essentially allows a defensive player to wander anywhere he wants to on the court and not have to be within the proximity of another player on offense.

This allows help defense to be in place BEFORE an offensive player makes a move toward the rim.

Back then, we saw a lot more iso's. Guys really clearing the floor, going out to the perimeter, taking their defender away from the basket, and giving there best offensive player plenty of space to work.

In today's game, we see a lot less iso's even with the games best players. I believe it has a lot to do with the fact that it doesn't matter if an offensive player clears out to the perimeter. With no illegal defense call, the defender does not have to go with him and can stand pat and in good position to help. So the floor is not going to be clear even if an Iso is called on offense.

This makes it harder to get to the rim and is the reason a guy like Kobe takes more jumpers as opposed to going to the rim. It's not because he can't drive well. So I personally believe that Jordan's driving ability would not be as effective as it was back then because he'd now have a guy already in position, waiting on him to help whenever he made a move towards the basket.

Back then, it seemed that help defense arrived late, at least compared to today's help. Then a player might be met at the rim, as opposed to the free throw line or a little lower today. I feel this was primarily the result of defenders then having to stay within range of their man (no floating on D) or they had to fully commit to a double team. With the removal of illegal defense today, help is able to get better position and with good timing.

We don't see coaches sending 2 or 3 guys to double or triple team an elite perimeter player like Kobe, Bron, and Wade the same way they would with Jordan and other perimeter players in Jordan's era. It's not because today's players aren't as good. It's because with the removal of illegal defense coaches don't have to send a defender way out of good position to double team. It's much better to have four guys in position to help on the way to the basket than to send 2 or 3 guys, have them get beat and then be left with only 2 guys to defend on offense.

A couple tiny things that I think show that help defense is better now than it was then is that we see a lot more guys being able to beat the offensive player to a spot to take a charge. As well as a lot less posterization dunks. That's how guys get dunked on, arriving late. Back then I remember seeing a lot more guys getting dunked on. Doesn't seem to happen as much today. Like I said, their little things, but I think they are the result of better help defense today.

Basically, back then, defenses had react to a player on offense. This, as opposed to being in position before the player makes a move. With a player as great as Jordan, by the time a defense reacts, it's already too late. Defense today is much smarter than it was then.


Where do you guys pick up this whole "ticky tack" foul thing from? There were more free throws taken back then than there are now. Free throw attempts have gone down.

Just for example, in 1996, the league average was 26.39 FTA per game. Last year, the league average was 24.55 FTA per game. That holds true even though today's game is played at a faster pace.

I don't think that can be used as a barometer. Teams weren't guarding Jordan like he was prime Jordan. He wasn't seeing the same defenses as a LeBron or Wade. Plus he was taking 22 shots a game to average 22 points on 41% shooting. To put things into perspective...

LeBron averaged 20 per game
Kobe 21.5
Durant 20.3
Wade 19.6
Melo 21.8

He would shoot the ball MORE than all of those guys did over the coarse of a game to average the 22 points he did that year. While impressive at his age to be putting up 22, by no means can you use that as a gauge to say he would murder the league in his prime.


Nobody is denying that Jordan would be good. That's not what people are saying at all.

Just that it's a little much to assume that Jordan would come into the league in today's game and be as if he turned Super Saiyin 4 just because of the way the game is played now. Way too many factors involved to jump to that conclusion and also say that he could definitely score 100.

There was a video posted on page 2 that you should watch about going against the zone.

[dragonyeuw]

Re: "I Could Score 100."

Tmagic, a well written reply. I'll touch on a few points:

As far as the driving thing goes, I never said that Kobe wasn't a good slasher. Of course he is, though not as good as in his prime. Having said that, I'd rate Wade and Lebron better at getting to the rim, and neither one of them have that great a jumpshot to keep defenders honest. I think most defenders play those two in particular for the drive, yet they still manage to get to the rim despite that, and convert at a 48-49% clip. For all of Kobe's offensive skills, he's yet to break 47% in a season and you have to question why. Yes he takes a larger percentage of 3's which will lower his overall percentages, but a part of this has to do with efficiency as well, intelligence as far as taking smart shots. Also you have to figure that if Wade and Lebron can have success as primarily slashers, I can't see why Jordan wouldn't have similar success driving to the basket. Both Wade and Lebron face the same kind of defense you elaborate on to great extent.

Furthermore, like in Jordan's day, there's only a handful of teams today that employ superior defensive strategies. Note that Kobe performs below par against the Celtics, who have the right defensive philosophy and personnel to make it harder for him. By the same token, a team like the Knicks or the Pistons had the right philosophy as well to make it harder for Jordan to score. If he was playing today, it's not as though he would be playing 29 teams all with superior defensive schemes. He'd come across a few, like the Spurs or the Celtics, and a bunch of teams he could torch in his sleep( like 20 years ago).

When I say ticky tack fouls, I'm not talking about the amount of free throws then versus now. More free throws back then could have been for a number of reasons. Were there more possessions per game back then, or today? Perhaps the game was a bit rougher back then, hence more fouls called? I'm saying ticky tack fouls in reference to looking at the guy the wrong way and getting called for a foul, as it seems to be today. The game doesn't allow for as much contact now, as it did then.

As for the Jordan at 40 thing, my point was to show that Jordan even at that age and playing against most of today's stars in their prime( wade, Lebron, durant, etc weren't in the league yet) he was more than capable of holding his own. My point was not to suggest that he was as efficient as those guys in terms of percentages and points per shot, I would certainly hope he wasn't as efficient. Wouldn't say much for today's stars if that was the case, would it? But again, considering that Jordan slashes at least as well as Wade and Lebron who are both successful slashers in today's game, and has a better jumpshot than both, exactly how can anyone make the argument that he wouldn't be as good now, as he was then? It's not like if a team takes away the drive in a particular game, that he has nothing to fall back on. The guy was one of the deadliest midrange jumpshooters ever, with a fadeaway that was semi-automatic and practically unguardable.

[RonnieG]

Re: "I Could Score 100."

Absolutely

Kobe has a better all around offensive game than anyone in history because he can hit the three pointer which Jordan cannot.

Kobe's offensive skillset with the addition of his post moves is unparalleled in the NBA's history.

No. Jordan gets too many good shots that Kobe couldnt get. And if you take away handchecking its even that much more. Jordans career average for 3 pt attempts per game is 1.7. Kobe's 3.8. So, its safe to say Jordan relied on the 3 pt shot less than Kobe, nor did he really need to. He could get to the basket easier. Jordan was the more efficient and better scorer.

Just because someone may throw 5 pitches and Koufax only threw 2 or 3, that doesnt mean he's a better pitcher than Koufax. Jordan has the Nolan Ryan fastball and the Dwight Gooden curveball and thats more than enough. Jordans career is kind of the equivalent of Koufax against the Twins in the world series.

[TMagic]

Re: "I Could Score 100."

Tmagic, a well written reply. I'll touch on a few points:

As for the Jordan at 40 thing, my point was to show that Jordan even at that age and playing against most of today's stars in their prime( wade, Lebron, durant, etc weren't in the league yet) he was more than capable of holding his own. My point was not to suggest that he was as efficient as those guys in terms of percentages and points per shot, I would certainly hope he wasn't as efficient. Wouldn't say much for today's stars if that was the case, would it? But again, considering that Jordan slashes at least as well as Wade and Lebron who are both successful slashers in today's game, and has a better jumpshot than both, exactly how can anyone make the argument that he wouldn't be as good now, as he was then? It's not like if a team takes away the drive in a particular game, that he has nothing to fall back on. The guy was one of the deadliest midrange jumpshooters ever, with a fadeaway that was semi-automatic and practically unguardable.

Oh, no. I was trying to compare the ability of Jordan in his 40's to the superstars of today. I'm just basically pointing out that he was shooting the ball more than any of the top scorers (who are leading the NBA in shot attempts) in the league are taking today. I was just using the number of shots taken to emphasize that he was taking a lot of shots to score 22.

A little misunderstanding there. I hope that cleared things up.


And my whole thing isn't that I think that Jordan would all of a sudden suck today. I still think he'd be the best in the game today if he was in his prime now in today's league. I just don't think he would be exceptionally better than what he was then just because of the rule changes. I wouldn't expect his scoring average to increase 10 ppg or anything crazy like that. And I don't think he could score 100 in a game.

That's just me. lol

[dragonyeuw]

Re: "I Could Score 100."

Oh, no. I was trying to compare the ability of Jordan in his 40's to the superstars of today. I'm just basically pointing out that he was shooting the ball more than any of the top scorers (who are leading the NBA in shot attempts) in the league are taking today. I was just using the number of shots taken to emphasize that he was taking a lot of shots to score 22.

A little misunderstanding there. I hope that cleared things up.


And my whole thing isn't that I think that Jordan would all of a sudden suck today. I still think he'd be the best in the game today if he was in his prime now in today's league. I just don't think he would be exceptionally better than what he was then just because of the rule changes. I wouldn't expect his scoring average to increase 10 ppg or anything crazy like that. And I don't think he could score 100 in a game.

That's just me. lol

Well certainly he wasn't nearly as efficient, and you have to factor a couple of things into that equation: 1) He was averaging 25 ppg and around 43-44% if I recall before he got injured in his first Wizards season which dropped his numbers, and started his second Wizards year( and final year as a player) coming off the bench, and eventually into the starting lineup, winding up with 20ppg and 44 percent. Comparitively, at that time that percentage was higher than guys like Iverson( admittedly never a high percentage scorer) , Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and only a couple of percentage points off Kobe, Vince Carter and Tmac. Not too shabby by any measure....

As far as him being better today, well it's only speculation on all our parts. I can only look at modern day perimeter players and try to give a reasonable opinion on how Jordan would be, based off how his talents and abilities compare to the Wades, Lebrons, Melos, and Kobes of today's league. Suffice to say, I see in Jordan the best attributes of today's best perimeter stars: Wade's slashing, Lebron's finishing, Kobe's midrange jumpshot. All of these guys are special talents but Jordan really did put it all together.

[SaltyBlackWorm]

Re: "I Could Score 100."

Well certainly he wasn't nearly as efficient, and you have to factor a couple of things into that equation: 1) He was averaging 25 ppg and around 43-44% if I recall before he got injured in his first Wizards season which dropped his numbers, and started his second Wizards year( and final year as a player) coming off the bench, and eventually into the starting lineup, winding up with 20ppg and 44 percent. Comparitively, at that time that percentage was higher than guys like Iverson( admittedly never a high percentage scorer) , Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and only a couple of percentage points off Kobe, Vince Carter and Tmac. Not too shabby by any measure....

As far as him being better today, well it's only speculation on all our parts. I can only look at modern day perimeter players and try to give a reasonable opinion on how Jordan would be, based off how his talents and abilities compare to the Wades, Lebrons, Melos, and Kobes of today's league. Suffice to say, I see in Jordan the best attributes of today's best perimeter stars: Wade's slashing, Lebron's finishing, Kobe's midrange jumpshot. All of these guys are special talents but Jordan really did put it all together.

yup lol, Michael Jordan was probably the most skilled bball player pound for pound. and he was a freak of nature too. an alleged 4.3 ( if im not mistaken ) 40 yard dash? 48' inch vertical? come on!

[chiefs314]

Re: "I Could Score 100."

i'm a little bias but he could drop 100 in his prime easliy it all depends on what team he's playing like the raptors, or timberwolves he could'nt be stop back then when you could get away with fouls ( bad boys) now you can't be 5 ft of kobe bryant you give MJ any breathing room your finished you will be embarrassed

[King_B_Mack]

Re: "I Could Score 100."

Still can't believe there are so many guys think he couldn't do this. This is the same man who told his defenders exactly what he was about to do, which way he was going to go and they STILL COULDN'T STOP HIM. The guy was so good that he trash talked by telling you the play and still successfully pulled it off. That, ontop of all the other points people have made in this thread and there's still doubt that Jordan could go off for 100 one time? Especially after all the hype that Kobe got for his 81? He and Kobe would be the Kobe/LeBron debate we have now so the second that 81 game happened for Kobe you KNOW the media and fans would be on Kobe's jock about it and asking Jordan about it and people would be putting him on top of Jordan for having scored that many as a lot of Kobe fanboys do right now after that game. Jordan might go out the next night and shoot for 100+ just cause someone dared questioned him being the best. I think cats are underestimating Jordan's competitiveness man. That dude was on another level when it came to that fire in the belly. Though there are a lot of people on here that seem to think he'd be all over going LeBron and playing with the best players if he had the chance when it's pretty clear that he wanted to dominate the best.