MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

[Bornindamecca]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

Re: JJ

I've seen a lot of Joe because my old roommate is from Atlanta. JJ is passive in his approach and neutralizes his own strength by going up soft, avoiding contact and never posting up. You take a poll from SGs in the league and I guarantee they'll regard kobe as the tougher physical matchup.

[AlexBrady]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

Not debating Oscar's greatness. It's the transition from "contextual greatness" to "head to head matchup". You seem to have trouble separating the two. Many of the guys on here see the problem. It's very simple: after a certain point, the league evolved. Not just changed, but got bigger and better, and that was mostly in the 80s. The Magic/Bird era was a big paradigm shift in basketball. With the exception of Wilt, the people who played before that shift cannot be directly compared to the people who played after that shift.

For HIS time, Oscar was bananas. But look at who he was playing against. You put Kobe and Lebron and Wade against those dudes and it would look like effin' Space Jam, Alex. Come on, son.

Eh, the paradigm shift was that the league started to market the individual over the teams. Those dudes? How about K.C. Jones, Satch Sanders, Hal Greer, Bob Love? These were elite defenders who Oscar was able to have success against. Wilt was one guy whose game would have translated. However, there are many others, including Oscar. The guys who would have been marginal or inept players today are Bob Cousy, George Mikan, Ed Macauley,ect. These were players who had slow feet.
Sure, the players today are bigger, stronger, faster and more talented. But the players back then were far more fundamentally sound.

[dragonyeuw]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

it definitely wouldn't look like space jam, I don't understand this because you play in a certain era you can't be better then this player or that player, Oscar robertson's skill blows kobe's out of the water, kobe is just a volume scorer, Oscar is one of the most complete players of all time, An example of playing in a certain era not mattering is Jabbar played in the 60's 70's and 80's and during the whole time he was still a dominant force

The big man's game hasn't really evolved to the extent that the guard game has. A guy like Bob Cousy had no left, and don't think he did anything like crossovers, between the legs and other fancy ballhandling. Nowadays your average 8 year old can do that. There's no aspect of the game, from a guard's standpoint in terms of skills, that you can say Oscar has any sort of edge on Kobe. The guard position has evolved a few times since Oscar played. Simply put, the skills that may have been considered revolutionary back in the 60's and 70's would not be in 2010.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

dragonyeow, you must be new around here.

Nobody talks or responds to that guy.

[dossier]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

Re: JJ

I've seen a lot of Joe because my old roommate is from Atlanta. JJ is passive in his approach and neutralizes his own strength by going up soft, avoiding contact and never posting up. You take a poll from SGs in the league and I guarantee they'll regard kobe as the tougher physical matchup.

yeah that's easy. Joe will consistently do a step back and shoot or shoot off pick. Kobe bangs in the low post and does while working in a broken body.

[dragonyeuw]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

dragonyeow, you must be new around here.

Nobody talks or responds to that guy.

I've been around for a while, just only started posting with any kind of regularity.

[PrettyT11]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

Re: JJ

I've seen a lot of Joe because my old roommate is from Atlanta. JJ is passive in his approach and neutralizes his own strength by going up soft, avoiding contact and never posting up. You take a poll from SGs in the league and I guarantee they'll regard kobe as the tougher physical matchup.

Oh no I wouldn't dispute that by any means. That is my main problem I have with JJ is that he will take too many damn jumpers instead of using the advantages he has on the block. When he plays down there they are a much better team and no guard can really guard him one on one down there. No doubt Kobe plays a more physical game than JJ I was just saying from a strength standpoint JJ is up there with any guard he just doesn't use it as much as he should.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

Oh no I wouldn't dispute that by any means. That is my main problem I have with JJ is that he will take too many damn jumpers instead of using the advantages he has on the block. When he plays down there they are a much better team and no guard can really guard him one on one down there. No doubt Kobe plays a more physical game than JJ I was just saying from a strength standpoint JJ is up there with any guard he just doesn't use it as much as he should.

Yeah, I was only talking about strength in how it relates to the experience of them playing the game. JJ being a softie, it doesn't matter what the potential of his strength is.

[wheelman990]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

Considering the NFL network put Barry Sanders #17 out of the top 100 all time players(under much worse players), I'd say top 10 guards isnt so bad. Barry should have easily been in the top 10

Best of lists are subjective, so who really cares anymore, lol.

[jdx66]

Sure, if you put Kobe in his prime in a time machine and transported him back to Oscar's day he would dominate. But, if you took Kobe back in time as an infant and let his game develop with the kind of training and nutrition Oscar had to deal with, their games would be similar. If Kobe (now) played in the 60s it would look like Space Jam. If Kobe was developed in the 60s, the Oscar-Kobe matchup would be even.

Give Oscar today's technology, nutrition, and training, and at the very least he's Brandon Roy. In all likelihood he'd be a lot better than that.

Buckeyes | Cavaliers | Reds | Bengals
Sent from the DROID2.

[Kashanova]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

The big man's game hasn't really evolved to the extent that the guard game has. A guy like Bob Cousy had no left, and don't think he did anything like crossovers, between the legs and other fancy ballhandling. Nowadays your average 8 year old can do that. There's no aspect of the game, from a guard's standpoint in terms of skills, that you can say Oscar has any sort of edge on Kobe. The guard position has evolved a few times since Oscar played. Simply put, the skills that may have been considered revolutionary back in the 60's and 70's would not be in 2010.

um actually I can say that oscar was a better rebounder than kobe, better play maker and a more efficient scorer than kobe was. the game has evolved but a rebound is still a rebound and an assist is still an assist.

[dragonyeuw]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

um actually I can say that oscar was a better rebounder than kobe, better play maker and a more efficient scorer than kobe was. the game has evolved but a rebound is still a rebound and an assist is still an assist.

He's only better in the context of the era he played in, if you're basing your entire opinion on numbers. Yeah Oscar averaged double figures in rebounds THEN, do you really think he would now? Do you really think if you transported Kobe with his skillset now back to 1960, that he wouldn't do what Oscar did, and more? Ahh hell, I hate era arguments.

Look, I've only seen videos of Oscar and watched Kobe's career from the start. Nothing I've seen in the videos( granted they're only videos so it's the best opinion I can give considering), there's no way anyone can come away with the opinion that Oscar was more skilled imho. It's an evolution of the perimeter player. I mean hell, it's like saying Bob Cousy was better than Steve Nash. It's an impossible argument to make, different eras, different situations.

[Kashanova]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

He's only better in the context of the era he played in, if you're basing your entire opinion on numbers. Yeah Oscar averaged double figures in rebounds THEN, do you really think he would now? Do you really think if you transported Kobe with his skillset now back to 1960, that he wouldn't do what Oscar did, and more? Ahh hell, I hate era arguments.

Look, I've only seen videos of Oscar and watched Kobe's career from the start. Nothing I've seen in the videos( granted they're only videos so it's the best opinion I can give considering), there's no way anyone can come away with the opinion that Oscar was more skilled imho. It's an evolution of the perimeter player. I mean hell, it's like saying Bob Cousy was better than Steve Nash. It's an impossible argument to make, different eras, different situations.

Kobe's Skill set is a volume scorer, He's a decent rebounder and average play maker. You can really say kobe is a great scorer anything more than that is a stretch.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

the game has evolved but a rebound is still a rebound and an assist is still an assist.

Possibly the most profound post I've ever read on the internet in my life

[ggsimmonds]

Re: MJ on Kobe Bryant: "I'd Say He's A Top 10 Guard"

I don't like getting involved in these player A is better than player B debates, but I will say that Kobe may have the best footwork of any guard that I have ever seen.

He's lost much of his athleticism and quickness, but his footwork is not fair.