11/8-11/14 Game Discussion Thread

[sir lucious lft ft]

<TABLE class="sortable stats_table" id=playoffs><THEAD><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TH class="ranker sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting" onmouseover="Tip('Rank')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="0">Rk</TH><TH class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align=left table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="1">Player</TH><TH class="tooltip sort_default_asc" align=middle table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="2">Age</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Games')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="3">G</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Minutes Played')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="4">MP</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Field Goals')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="5">FG</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Field Goal Attempts')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="6">FGA</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('3-Point Field Goals')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="7">3P</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('3-Point Field Goal Attempts')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="8">3PA</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Free Throws')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="9">FT</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Free Throw Attempts')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="10">FTA</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Offensive Rebounds')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="11">ORB</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Total Rebounds')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="12">TRB</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Assists')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="13">AST</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Steals')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="14">STL</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Blocks')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="15">BLK</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Turnovers')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="16">TOV</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Personal Fouls')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="17">PF</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Points')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="18">PTS</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Field Goal Percentage')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="19">FG%</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('3-Point Field Goal Percentage')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="20">3P%</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Free Throw Percentage')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="21">FT%</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Minutes Played Per Game')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="22">MP</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Points Per Game')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="23">PTS</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Total Rebounds Per Game')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="24">TRB</TH><TH class=tooltip onmouseover="Tip('Assists Per Game')" align=right table_number="7" sorttable_columnindex="25">AST</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=right csk="1">1</TD><TD align=left csk="Wade,Dwyane">Dwyane Wade</TD><TD align=right>24</TD><TD align=right>23</TD><TD align=right>959</TD><TD align=right>219</TD><TD align=right>441</TD><TD align=right>14</TD><TD align=right>37</TD><TD align=right>202</TD><TD align=right>250</TD><TD align=right>28</TD><TD align=right>135</TD><TD align=right>132</TD><TD align=right>51</TD><TD align=right>26</TD><TD align=right>90</TD><TD align=right>71</TD><TD align=right>654</TD><TD align=right>.497</TD><TD align=right>.378</TD><TD align=right>.808</TD><TD align=right>41.7</TD><TD align=right>28.4</TD><TD align=right>5.9</TD><TD align=right>5.7</TD></TR><TR class="" onmouseover=hl(this); style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffa" onmouseout=uhl(this);><TD align=right csk="2">2</TD><TD align=left csk="O'Neal,Shaquille">Shaquille O'Neal</TD><TD align=right>33</TD><TD align=right>23</TD><TD align=right>759</TD><TD align=right>178</TD><TD align=right>291</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>0</TD><TD align=right>68</TD><TD align=right>182</TD><TD align=right>75</TD><TD align=right>225</TD><TD align=right>39</TD><TD align=right>11</TD><TD align=right>34</TD><TD align=right>85</TD><TD align=right>84</TD><TD align=right>424</TD><TD align=right>.612</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>.374</TD><TD align=right>33.0</TD><TD align=right>18.4</TD><TD align=right>9.8</TD><TD align=right>1.7</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Yeah, D-Wade really rode Shaq hard that year. 18-10 is the most dominant big in the league? Get out of here with that. Shaq was still a really good player then, but to try to discredit D-Wade is laughable. His Finals performance was rated the best ever that year too. D-Wade is the 2nd best player in the league behind Kobe and the sooner LeBron realizes this and swallows his pride, the sooner the Heat will start to gel. Just saw that D-Wade shot better from 3 point range than Shaq did from the line for the whole playoffs. That is truly amazing.

Come on man, get outta here with stats. Answer these question.

How many championships did Miami win before shaq got there?

How many did they win since he was gone?

Shaq let wade do what he wouldn't let kobe do, and that was be the man.
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[jeebs9]

Re: 11/8-11/14 Game Discussion Thread

If Miami doesn't get a big man via trade before the deadline then they're dead in the water for this year's playoffs. Both Boston and the Lakers have big men that will just toast them inside...

I do think that this team will get the additional players in the offseason though, watch out next year...

I don't know. I think they need a point guard a solid one. Has to be able to shoot from distance. But most importantly play defense.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: 11/8-11/14 Game Discussion Thread

Ericka? pshh. Taken out of an abstract context, the question is: "Would Ericka be good enough against Dwight, KG, Pau, Noah/Boozer for the Heat to win?"

Answered directly, no, of course not. The answer lies in what I was saying before: the Heat have to be so great at the other things that it doesn't matter.

That's what the Bulls did. They never had the kind of interior presence or PG defense to flat out stop the 1/5 attack, but they were so good from the 2-4 that they won the tug of war. So whether or not they get a Damp type person, his success depends on them excelling so much at their mismatches that their deficits don't matter. They will never be like Boston or the Lakers were the attack/defense balance is so great that you are just rolling the dice on a Fisher/Big Baby type player missing a shot and hoping for the best.

[sir lucious lft ft]

Your first post was jokes, and the following were too. I am done with that topic, you should not even begin to compare Boston 2008 with Miami 2011. It makes zero sense on any level.

I'm going to wait past 3 weeks to see if this can work out in Miami. If you want to go ahead and declare them dead, so be it.

I guess it would make zero sense if you stuck on me comparing boston 08 to Miami 2011 which I wasn't doing.

And I don't consider them dead, just the third best team in the league and it shows because they have shown dominance against everybody they played except bos. Even in the jazz game they showed you dominance until they cracked. They are just not going to beat well-oiled machines (la or bos) with that current roster.


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[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 11/8-11/14 Game Discussion Thread

They aren't getting a pass from me. I'm saying making snap judgments after three weeks is pointless. So there is definitely no need to panic. They need a feeling out period, it was silly to ever think the team was going to snap off the bat.

Like Born said their two best players are not jumpshooters. That is a major factor. They're gonna need Mike Miller to come back ASAP.

On the flipside, they are one of the best defensive teams in the league to start. Unfortunately their bigs are not playing to par on defense. They need to make some adjustments because toughness doesn't really come overnight.

I don't think it was silly to believe they would snap off bat considering boston big 3 did it back in 08 by starting the season like 26-2. It's funny that ppl say they need time to gel as if they still look lost out on the court.

Did you not say that? Were you comparing Miami to Boston 2008 or no?

[Scott812313]

Re: 11/8-11/14 Game Discussion Thread

Come on man, get outta here with stats. Answer these question.

How many championships did Miami win before shaq got there?

How many did they win since he was gone?

Shaq let wade do what he wouldn't let kobe do, and that was be the man.
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They won that year because it was one of the weakest years in recent history and the fact that Wade played like a cross between MJ and JC. Shaq had little to do with it. Wade was not going to be denied.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 11/8-11/14 Game Discussion Thread

I'm still trying to figure out how/why they've looked so bad in their 4 losses though? I mean I wasn't expecting them to be good to go off the jump(as far as chemistry goes)but in each of their losses, they really haven't looked that good. And even in some of their wins, they're struggling with teams they have no business struggling with(New Jersey).

But like it's already been mentioned, too early to even panic with them but if we get to December/January and they're still playing like they are right now, I'd be a teeny bit concerned there.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: 11/8-11/14 Game Discussion Thread

As much as some people wanted this to be Lebron's team, the truth is that this is no one's team. Wade and Lebron haven't figured out who is going to direct the offense, be the coach on the floor and direct the theme of how to deal with the media. They are playing "guess so" leadership. Like Reggie Miller said, you can only have one Chief.

Doesn't mean the other guys are completely subordinate. It's just a matter of everyone getting into their roles. Someone has to handle the "emotional leader" someone has to handle the "defensive leader" and "floor general" and "closer" and so on and so forth. Bron and Wade have done all of those things and haven't sussed out what they want to hold on to, and what they want to give up.

So when things go wrong, there is an ugly and total breakdown.

And Spoel is not a strong enough personality to bring this all in. Doc is. Phil is. Riles is. Popp is.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 11/8-11/14 Game Discussion Thread

The coach seems in over his head for sure. I just don't think he's gonna last.

[Scott812313]

Re: 11/8-11/14 Game Discussion Thread

The coach seems in over his head for sure. I just don't think he's gonna last.

Riley could/should have averted this as soon as they all signed by coming back to the bench before it got ugly. The only reason he didn't is because of the backlash from him whacking SVG.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: 11/8-11/14 Game Discussion Thread

The coach seems in over his head for sure. I just don't think he's gonna last.

Problem is, Riles is not going to take over for half a decade. The Shaq/Wade Heat had a lot of strong older roleplayers(which people always forget). Toine, Payton, Zo, J-Will were all older players, so Riles knew that it could be just a couple of years before they'd be rebuilding. WaBrosh is an under 30 core. They need a 10 year coach.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 11/8-11/14 Game Discussion Thread

WaBrosh

Had me

[tehova]

Re: 11/8-11/14 Game Discussion Thread

I like when the heat win...and when they lose. They are the ultimate win-win


Entertainment value all around

[Bumi]

Re: 11/8-11/14 Game Discussion Thread

It's a shame John Wall is and will be stuck on the Wizards.

[Checmate101]

Re: 11/8-11/14 Game Discussion Thread

Wiz came out and played some ball