What ever happened to it being a mans game?

[wwharton]

Re: What ever happened to it being a mans game?

highest team scoring averages were in the 1980s...

That doesn't really disprove his point, which is true. In the 80's defense was optional for many teams around the league. Then the Bad Boys came, the Jordan Rules, etc. The coaches and players decided to take it up a notch which (along with some other factors with how guys were working on fundamentals) started bringing scoring down, especially in the playoffs. That's when the league started changing the rules to get scoring back up.

[wwharton]

Re: What ever happened to it being a mans game?

The past is always better than the present

Definitely not what he was saying... please don't start trolling with this crap.

[kingkilla56]

Re: What ever happened to it being a mans game?

Definitely not what he was saying... please don't start trolling with this crap.

I know thats not what hes saying. I think you've jumped the gun. Did I use the wrong emoticon the relay that? My bad.

[redcedarrevenge]

Re: What ever happened to it being a mans game?

I think your diminishing the accomplishments the Pat Riley Knicks made in those years. They were an elite team that did go to the (fake) Finals. To frame them as only thugs because the Celtics got ONE ring in this no-hand check era is suspect criticism.

They werent the only ones playing hard defense in the early-mid 90's.
Most East Coast teams had a "Nuthing down the middle/in the paint" attitude.
Are the Bad Boys' Defense a Non-Ring 1990 Style Defense?

What accomplishments? Some division titles and one trip to the NBA Finals? Please explain to me how that deserves discussion this many years after the fact. Those accomplishments? The San Antonio Spurs, Detroit Pistons, and Boston Celtics of the 2000s completely overshadow them both in a play style manner and in actual measurables. If hand checking is such a game altering deal (and it is if you're physically not talented enough to play defense without a crutch), then the last real great teams played before the three point line.

I get it. It's cool because we need to make the teams that played in the era seem to be legitimately great, even though they weren't. Next, I'll hear how the Mourning Heat were amongst the best in NBA history. The 90 Pistons were the last of that ultra-physical defense from the 1980's. Just how it is.

[wwharton]

Re: What ever happened to it being a mans game?

I know thats not what hes saying. I think you've jumped the gun. Did I use the wrong emoticon the relay that? My bad.

If you knew, then it's just trolling... that's my point. Let the old vs new stuff go.

[BATMON]

Re: What ever happened to it being a mans game?

All the champions of the nba had adversaries that shouldnt be relagated to loser status.

Utah was a great team despite your dumming down nba history to only the champions.

All great stories have interesting antagonists. You cannot savor a champions road to glory w/out discounting who they had to defeat.

The Phoenix Suns, New York Knicks, Miami Heat, Indiana Pacers, Utah Jazz, Portland Trailblazers, and other teams were right there giving champions a run for their money.

The Rockets,Pistons, and Bulls didnt play in a vacuum.

Im not a Knicks fan , but i do realize the drama they brought to the league, despite not winning a title. This new era we are are in can be attributed to their defensive effort, whether good or bad.

And those Celtics were non-existant for most of the decade.

[kingkilla56]

Re: What ever happened to it being a mans game?

If you knew, then it's just trolling... that's my point. Let the old vs new stuff go.

you got it boss

[redcedarrevenge]

Re: What ever happened to it being a mans game?

And in three seasons, they accomplished more than the Pat Riley Knicks did during that entire run. Those Knicks didn't change the game; they were a mediocre team before Pat got there, had talent deficiencies compared to the good teams in the league, and as a result, played chippy to have success. They had some intense rivalries. Great. They weren't a great team, nor were they benchmarks, nor were they a shift in how basketball was player, nor are they the last team to play defense in NBA history. The Utah Jazz had perhaps the greatest point guard and second greatest power forward to play the game. That's quite a bit different than Patrick Ewing and overachieving John Starks/Charles Oakley/Anthony Mason/Greg Anthony. But, by all means, overrate their importance because they chipped it up and got into slap fights and were unclutch when it mattered most.

[kingkilla56]

Re: What ever happened to it being a mans game?

And in three seasons, they accomplished more than the Pat Riley Knicks did during that entire run. Those Knicks didn't change the game; they were a mediocre team before Pat got there, had talent deficiencies compared to the good teams in the league, and as a result, played chippy to have success. They had some intense rivalries. Great. They weren't a great team, nor were they benchmarks, nor were they a shift in how basketball was player, nor are they the last team to play defense in NBA history. The Utah Jazz had perhaps the greatest point guard and second greatest power forward to play the game. That's quite a bit different than Patrick Ewing and overachieving John Starks/Charles Oakley/Anthony Mason/Greg Anthony. But, by all means, overrate their importance because they chipped it up and got into slap fights and were unclutch when it mattered most.

Damn dude you really dont like those knicks teams huh? They set the NBA back 25 years? How so?
EDIT: oops that wasnt you who said this

[redcedarrevenge]

Re: What ever happened to it being a mans game?

Damn dude you really dont like those knicks teams huh? They set the NBA back 25 years? How so?
EDIT: oops that wasnt you who said this

I don't like teams who are given a place of importance in revisionist NBA history because it was the last time the Knicks were relevant and because of some six game series they played in the 93 playoffs that most folks don't even know about save Charles Smith botching shots in the paint.

[BATMON]

Re: What ever happened to it being a mans game?

And in three seasons, they accomplished more than the Pat Riley Knicks did during that entire run. Those Knicks didn't change the game; they were a mediocre team before Pat got there, had talent deficiencies compared to the good teams in the league, and as a result, played chippy to have success. They had some intense rivalries. Great. They weren't a great team, nor were they benchmarks, nor were they a shift in how basketball was player, nor are they the last team to play defense in NBA history. The Utah Jazz had perhaps the greatest point guard and second greatest power forward to play the game. That's quite a bit different than Patrick Ewing and overachieving John Starks/Charles Oakley/Anthony Mason/Greg Anthony. But, by all means, overrate their importance because they chipped it up and got into slap fights and were unclutch when it mattered most.

I disagree w/ you.

If u cant see Pat Riley's Defense (Knicks and Feat) changing the landscape of the League, there's nothing else I can contribute.

[redcedarrevenge]

Re: What ever happened to it being a mans game?

I disagree w/ you.

If u cant see Pat Riley's Defense (Knicks and Feat) changing the landscape of the League, there's nothing else I can contribute.

Again; chippy play and slap fights doesn't change the landscape of anything. That style of defense has been played before and since, and has been played by multiple time NBA Champions in both instances. Just because it happened in New York with an unclutch basketball team that won absolutely nothing doesn't put it in some mythical pantheon that belongs to the 80's Celtics, Bad Boy Pistons, or the 2000's Pistons, Spurs, and Big Three Celtics.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: What ever happened to it being a mans game?

And in three seasons, they accomplished more than the Pat Riley Knicks did during that entire run. Those Knicks didn't change the game; they were a mediocre team before Pat got there, had talent deficiencies compared to the good teams in the league, and as a result, played chippy to have success. They had some intense rivalries. Great. They weren't a great team, nor were they benchmarks, nor were they a shift in how basketball was player, nor are they the last team to play defense in NBA history. The Utah Jazz had perhaps the greatest point guard and second greatest power forward to play the game. That's quite a bit different than Patrick Ewing and overachieving John Starks/Charles Oakley/Anthony Mason/Greg Anthony. But, by all means, overrate their importance because they chipped it up and got into slap fights and were unclutch when it mattered most.

Good post, sir.

[BATMON]

Re: What ever happened to it being a mans game?

Again; chippy play and slap fights doesn't change the landscape of anything. That style of defense has been played before and since, and has been played by multiple time NBA Champions in both instances. Just because it happened in New York with an unclutch basketball team that won absolutely nothing doesn't put it in some mythical pantheon that belongs to the 80's Celtics, Bad Boy Pistons, or the 2000's Pistons, Spurs, and Big Three Celtics.

So only Champions that play that style count?

Being the Best in The East isnt an accomplishment?
Orlando beating the Bulls isnt an accomplishment?

The Big Three Celtics are in the same Pantheon as the 80's Celtics?

Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, Stockton, Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond, Alex English, Charles Barlkley shouldnt go to the Hall of Fame or mentioned alongside the guys who got rings, because they didnt win?

I think your a Knicks ***** and will continue to cast them(Pat Riley era) as overachievers that have a minor place in their era.

Going to the Finals means nothing in your book.

[redcedarrevenge]

Re: What ever happened to it being a mans game?

So only Champions that play that style count?

Being the Best in The East isnt an accomplishment?
Orlando beating the Bulls isnt an accomplishment?

The Big Three Celtics are in the same Pantheon as the 80's Celtics?

Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, Stockton, Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond, Alex English, Charles Barlkley shouldnt go to the Hall of Fame or mentioned alongside the guys who got rings, because they didnt win?

I think your a Knicks ***** and will continue to cast them(Pat Riley era) as overachievers that have a minor place in their era.

Going to the Finals means nothing in your book.

Reading is fundamental. It's not my fault you and those who thump their chest about them can't substantiate them through actual measurables.

Oh, and Mitch Richmond has a ring.