Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

[greenegt]

Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

no, all sports have officiating problems. it's the nature of having three people oversee ten world-class athletes moving at incredible speed in a confined area.

Of course all sports have officiating issues. There's never going to be a league that gets every call correct and doesn't **** up in some way, but when you look at a league like MLB they at least keep their mistakes to a minimum (from an outsider's view that is since I don't watch much baseball).

Yes and the NBA officiating could be A LOT better, if the league took the issue seriously. All we fans want is for calls to make sense. Don't call ticky-tack one minute, then let things go, the next.

[Dice]

Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

Yes and the NBA officiating could be A LOT better, if the league took the issue seriously. All we fans want is for calls to make sense. Don't call ticky-tack one minute, then let things go, the next.

I think consistency is the word here. One of the main issues I see with NBA officiating is the foul calling. That part of the game will never be perfect. So what they need to do is have more consistency with the fouls they call. The coaches and players should be able to evaluate during the course of a game if the refs are going to officiate a physical game or if they aren't letting anything get by. It's just like umpires in baseball and their strike zones. Some nights, umpires will have huge strike zones. Other nights, pitchers will have to pitch into a tea cup to get a strike. And in my personal opinion, on most nights I think the NBA does an ok job with it's consistency of foul calling. It could use a little work but I don't think it's a problem big enough to hurt the integrity of the game. OR making the game into the WWE as some would say. In the NBA, on most nights the better team normally wins despite the quality of officiating.

[wwharton]

Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

Of course all sports have officiating issues. There's never going to be a league that gets every call correct and doesn't **** up in some way, but when you look at a league like MLB they at least keep their mistakes to a minimum (from an outsider's view that is since I don't watch much baseball).

The biggest issue is comparing them to baseball, football, hockey, etc. The fact is there is no other sport that requires so much from their officials. It can be compared to hockey because of the constant movement, but there aren't nearly as many violations and fouls/penalties to look out for. Baseball... not even close to a fair comparison. Ball/strike, safe/out, fair/foul, balk. Think I covered 90% of the difficult decisions right there. Football works on a play by play basis. Refs can almost hold their breath in the amount of time they have to really be focused before they get to rest their brains for a bit.

Anything can be improved on, but we can't really say what the expectations should be when factoring in the human element since we've never seen the level of performance many are demanding here (besides in video games). I have a problem with how the refs interact with the players and vice versa, but the human element is part of the game... so much so that a large part of the game involves tricking the ref into believing something that isn't true (beyond just flopping).

Give coaches challenges and such wouldn't work either. Because of the nature of the game, adding dead moments for reviews kills momentum in a much bigger way than any other sport. Timeouts are used more to stop momentum than rest players. Adding more dead ball moments would result in the refs effecting the game MORE. And they actually use the replay system in a similar way to football and baseball currently. None of the leagues will ever use it to adjust judgement calls or penalties. Baseball will never use it for balls and strikes, football will never use it for a push out (which is why they just got rid of the push out). And no one will ever use it to reverse a foul/penalty call.

[NYJets]

Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

The biggest issue is comparing them to baseball, football, hockey, etc. The fact is there is no other sport that requires so much from their officials. It can be compared to hockey because of the constant movement, but there aren't nearly as many violations and fouls/penalties to look out for. Baseball... not even close to a fair comparison. Ball/strike, safe/out, fair/foul, balk. Think I covered 90% of the difficult decisions right there. Football works on a play by play basis. Refs can almost hold their breath in the amount of time they have to really be focused before they get to rest their brains for a bit.

Anything can be improved on, but we can't really say what the expectations should be when factoring in the human element since we've never seen the level of performance many are demanding here (besides in video games). I have a problem with how the refs interact with the players and vice versa, but the human element is part of the game... so much so that a large part of the game involves tricking the ref into believing something that isn't true (beyond just flopping).

Give coaches challenges and such wouldn't work either. Because of the nature of the game, adding dead moments for reviews kills momentum in a much bigger way than any other sport. Timeouts are used more to stop momentum than rest players. Adding more dead ball moments would result in the refs effecting the game MORE. And they actually use the replay system in a similar way to football and baseball currently. None of the leagues will ever use it to adjust judgement calls or penalties. Baseball will never use it for balls and strikes, football will never use it for a push out (which is why they just got rid of the push out). And no one will ever use it to reverse a foul/penalty call.

This.

Sure, it can get better, and they can continue to look into ways to make it better. I know in college at least, they've been talking a lot lately about the refs being overworked, so they can look at stuff like that. But at the end of the day, basketball is incredibly hard to ref, especially at this level, and with the athletes we have today.

[jeebs9]

Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

Have you guys seen this site called.. A lot of stuff there.

http://refcalls.com/

[LingeringRegime]

Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

Have you guys seen this site called.. A lot of stuff there.
http://refcalls.com/

Thanks man. Great site right there.

[wwharton]

Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

Have you guys seen this site called.. A lot of stuff there.
http://refcalls.com/

It's like a real life "bugs and glitches" thread.

Reading it won't make the issues go away but will make my enjoyment of the overall product go down.

I know we talk about all this stuff bc we're here and we can, but I hope you guys can watch a game without this stuff in the back of your mind. Otherwise, you're missing the essence of the sport you love chasing a dream.

[23]

Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

I dont think we look for it though... it just happens.

The announcers will start it off with, oh today theyre going to call it tight from the beginning this time

or... you just end up seeing some garbage happen at the most convinient time for a comeback, even multiple times in a row you see something get let go on one end and the other end its not.

I dont think anyone is blaming refs for being human, but we've had some pretty solid evidence of some really shady and nasty happenings, yet people continue to act as though its not happening, even if they arent seeing it.

I remember not long ago the ORL Magic took tons of things to the league office and they said the nba kept telling them, youre right, your're right, your're right...yet and still there is never any solutions or compromises there.

Human element was totally eliminated for the players this year when guys were being kicked out of games for looking at refs not saying a word... Minnesota got 5 techs in 10 seconds against San Antoino

Again, there is no balance with this stuff, and as long as you just go gwedo on anyone who dares asks any questions then people wont trust you plain and simple

[Dice]

Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

I dont think we look for it though... it just happens.

The announcers will start it off with, oh today theyre going to call it tight from the beginning this time

or... you just end up seeing some garbage happen at the most convinient time for a comeback, even multiple times in a row you see something get let go on one end and the other end its not.

I dont think anyone is blaming refs for being human, but we've had some pretty solid evidence of some really shady and nasty happenings, yet people continue to act as though its not happening, even if they arent seeing it.

I remember not long ago the ORL Magic took tons of things to the league office and they said the nba kept telling them, youre right, your're right, your're right...yet and still there is never any solutions or compromises there.

Human element was totally eliminated for the players this year when guys were being kicked out of games for looking at refs not saying a word... Minnesota got 5 techs in 10 seconds against San Antoino

Again, there is no balance with this stuff, and as long as you just go gwedo on anyone who dares asks any questions then people wont trust you plain and simple

The question I have is that this 'shady' business that's going on, is it a result of the league being rigged or just unintentional bad officiating? It's one thing to officiate a bad game BUT it's another to rig a game through officiating.

And I know that the Tim Donaghy situation has put a dark cloud over the NBA and rightfully so because he did rig games. BUT are we now to believe there are more Tim Donaghy's out there and the NBA is nothing but the WWE?

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

It won't be changed and I wouldn't expect it to be changed anytime soon either.

Live with it and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way but it is what it is.

[23]

Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

The question I have is that this 'shady' business that's going on, is it a result of the league being rigged or just unintentional bad officiating? It's one thing to officiate a bad game BUT it's another to rig a game through officiating.

And I know that the Tim Donaghy situation has put a dark cloud over the NBA and rightfully so because he did rig games. BUT are we now to believe there are more Tim Donaghy's out there and the NBA is nothing but the WWE?

Im not sure of your point or your question really

Rigged, fixed.. you can call names if you wish, but thats not really my thing

I just post what I see, you be the judge of that stuff just as I am, and there is definitely a huge chunk of the fanbase that sees something more than just human error at work sometimes

[wwharton]

Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

I dont think we look for it though... it just happens.

The announcers will start it off with, oh today theyre going to call it tight from the beginning this time

or... you just end up seeing some garbage happen at the most convinient time for a comeback, even multiple times in a row you see something get let go on one end and the other end its not.

I dont think anyone is blaming refs for being human, but we've had some pretty solid evidence of some really shady and nasty happenings, yet people continue to act as though its not happening, even if they arent seeing it.

I remember not long ago the ORL Magic took tons of things to the league office and they said the nba kept telling them, youre right, your're right, your're right...yet and still there is never any solutions or compromises there.

Human element was totally eliminated for the players this year when guys were being kicked out of games for looking at refs not saying a word... Minnesota got 5 techs in 10 seconds against San Antoino

Again, there is no balance with this stuff, and as long as you just go gwedo on anyone who dares asks any questions then people wont trust you plain and simple

The question I have is that this 'shady' business that's going on, is it a result of the league being rigged or just unintentional bad officiating? It's one thing to officiate a bad game BUT it's another to rig a game through officiating.

And I know that the Tim Donaghy situation has put a dark cloud over the NBA and rightfully so because he did rig games. BUT are we now to believe there are more Tim Donaghy's out there and the NBA is nothing but the WWE?

I have the same question as Dice. If it's just about them being bad, then it is what it is and has always been. The bigger/stronger/faster players get... and the more creative they get with both moves within the rules (LBJ does some things that we've never seen before so it looks illegal to the naked eye, so how do you call the next move?) and working the system (drawing a shooting fould when someone puts their hand too close) the harder it becomes to officiate the game.

I can't get behind the idea that things are rigged, mostly because I've seen too many refs just get overwhelmed by all that goes on at times, and have had conversations with some about their thought process on some calls/no calls (that were wrong but I could see how they came to their conclusion). If there is still some of that going on then you all have a right to be pissed, of course, but I think some guys think of every conspiracy theory and obvious miscue whenever they see a bad call (which happens every game) and just ruins it for them.

Definitely not saying that it isn't worth talking about, but if someone were still talking about the Mavs getting robbed years ago (for example), then they're just missing a beautiful product on the court. Unfortunately (or fortunately in some cases imo), it's part of the game we love.

I was wondering what was wrong with Rose when he went nuts after getting called for a foul on Price... certainly looked like a foul. That is until the replay showed that Price pulled his arm while shooting. That's part of the game. Maybe I'm just in the minority who are ok with that part of the game too.

[Dice]

Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

I just post what I see, you be the judge of that stuff just as I am, and there is definitely a huge chunk of the fanbase that sees something more than just human error at work sometimes

This is what I'm getting at. You used the term 'shady' and all I wanted to know is this just human error that's happening on the court or is this some sort of potential conspiracy to help teams to win more games and get to the championship?

[23]

Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

This is what I'm getting at. You used the term 'shady' and all I wanted to know is this just human error that's happening on the court or is this some sort of potential conspiracy to help teams to win more games and get to the championship?

Did you see the Dallas video?

Was it human error?

Was the 5 techs in 10 seconds human error?

Was the multiple one sided calls in Boston human error?

I could site multiple playoff scenarios like all of the phantom fouls on Minnesota against the Lakers as well... was that also human error?

Im not here being some kind of a team bias personality or being PC

Was it human error to bring in the army general? Why is he even there if everything is okay?

What does he do anyway?

How do you calculate human error vs. blatant non calls vs calls that shouldnt have been?

Is it human error to have Dick Bavetta reffing every single NBA finals?

Its a bunch of bull..


If they're consistently that bad at their jobs they need to be replaced, plain and simple

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?

Dan Crawford was assigned because of the horrible officiating in the first game....well....according to that video PortlandBlazer posted in the thread. That was brutal.

And yes, Dre's right. If it's human error, you don't have the same morons reffing the most important games. And if they keep reffing and making "human errors", then maybe their old asses need to be given the boot and bring in people with better vision and ability to get into position. Of course that won't happen, because they're Company Men.