Yes and the NBA officiating could be A LOT better, if the league took the issue seriously. All we fans want is for calls to make sense. Don't call ticky-tack one minute, then let things go, the next.
Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
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Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
Yes and the NBA officiating could be A LOT better, if the league took the issue seriously. All we fans want is for calls to make sense. Don't call ticky-tack one minute, then let things go, the next.XBL: Mean Greene
PSN: OGMeanGreene
Twitter: @greenegt -
Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
I think consistency is the word here. One of the main issues I see with NBA officiating is the foul calling. That part of the game will never be perfect. So what they need to do is have more consistency with the fouls they call. The coaches and players should be able to evaluate during the course of a game if the refs are going to officiate a physical game or if they aren't letting anything get by. It's just like umpires in baseball and their strike zones. Some nights, umpires will have huge strike zones. Other nights, pitchers will have to pitch into a tea cup to get a strike. And in my personal opinion, on most nights I think the NBA does an ok job with it's consistency of foul calling. It could use a little work but I don't think it's a problem big enough to hurt the integrity of the game. OR making the game into the WWE as some would say. In the NBA, on most nights the better team normally wins despite the quality of officiating.I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm XComment
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Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
Of course all sports have officiating issues. There's never going to be a league that gets every call correct and doesn't **** up in some way, but when you look at a league like MLB they at least keep their mistakes to a minimum (from an outsider's view that is since I don't watch much baseball).
Anything can be improved on, but we can't really say what the expectations should be when factoring in the human element since we've never seen the level of performance many are demanding here (besides in video games). I have a problem with how the refs interact with the players and vice versa, but the human element is part of the game... so much so that a large part of the game involves tricking the ref into believing something that isn't true (beyond just flopping).
Give coaches challenges and such wouldn't work either. Because of the nature of the game, adding dead moments for reviews kills momentum in a much bigger way than any other sport. Timeouts are used more to stop momentum than rest players. Adding more dead ball moments would result in the refs effecting the game MORE. And they actually use the replay system in a similar way to football and baseball currently. None of the leagues will ever use it to adjust judgement calls or penalties. Baseball will never use it for balls and strikes, football will never use it for a push out (which is why they just got rid of the push out). And no one will ever use it to reverse a foul/penalty call.Comment
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Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
The biggest issue is comparing them to baseball, football, hockey, etc. The fact is there is no other sport that requires so much from their officials. It can be compared to hockey because of the constant movement, but there aren't nearly as many violations and fouls/penalties to look out for. Baseball... not even close to a fair comparison. Ball/strike, safe/out, fair/foul, balk. Think I covered 90% of the difficult decisions right there. Football works on a play by play basis. Refs can almost hold their breath in the amount of time they have to really be focused before they get to rest their brains for a bit.
Anything can be improved on, but we can't really say what the expectations should be when factoring in the human element since we've never seen the level of performance many are demanding here (besides in video games). I have a problem with how the refs interact with the players and vice versa, but the human element is part of the game... so much so that a large part of the game involves tricking the ref into believing something that isn't true (beyond just flopping).
Give coaches challenges and such wouldn't work either. Because of the nature of the game, adding dead moments for reviews kills momentum in a much bigger way than any other sport. Timeouts are used more to stop momentum than rest players. Adding more dead ball moments would result in the refs effecting the game MORE. And they actually use the replay system in a similar way to football and baseball currently. None of the leagues will ever use it to adjust judgement calls or penalties. Baseball will never use it for balls and strikes, football will never use it for a push out (which is why they just got rid of the push out). And no one will ever use it to reverse a foul/penalty call.
Sure, it can get better, and they can continue to look into ways to make it better. I know in college at least, they've been talking a lot lately about the refs being overworked, so they can look at stuff like that. But at the end of the day, basketball is incredibly hard to ref, especially at this level, and with the athletes we have today.Originally posted by Jay BilasThe question isn't whether UConn belongs with the elites, but over the last 20 years, whether the rest of the college basketball elite belongs with UConnComment
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Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
Have you guys seen this site called.. A lot of stuff there.
Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IHP_5GUBQoComment
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Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
Have you guys seen this site called.. A lot of stuff there.
http://refcalls.com/Comment
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Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
Have you guys seen this site called.. A lot of stuff there.
http://refcalls.com/
Reading it won't make the issues go away but will make my enjoyment of the overall product go down.
I know we talk about all this stuff bc we're here and we can, but I hope you guys can watch a game without this stuff in the back of your mind. Otherwise, you're missing the essence of the sport you love chasing a dream.Comment
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Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
I dont think we look for it though... it just happens.
The announcers will start it off with, oh today theyre going to call it tight from the beginning this time
or... you just end up seeing some garbage happen at the most convinient time for a comeback, even multiple times in a row you see something get let go on one end and the other end its not.
I dont think anyone is blaming refs for being human, but we've had some pretty solid evidence of some really shady and nasty happenings, yet people continue to act as though its not happening, even if they arent seeing it.
I remember not long ago the ORL Magic took tons of things to the league office and they said the nba kept telling them, youre right, your're right, your're right...yet and still there is never any solutions or compromises there.
Human element was totally eliminated for the players this year when guys were being kicked out of games for looking at refs not saying a word... Minnesota got 5 techs in 10 seconds against San Antoino
Again, there is no balance with this stuff, and as long as you just go gwedo on anyone who dares asks any questions then people wont trust you plain and simpleComment
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Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
I dont think we look for it though... it just happens.
The announcers will start it off with, oh today theyre going to call it tight from the beginning this time
or... you just end up seeing some garbage happen at the most convinient time for a comeback, even multiple times in a row you see something get let go on one end and the other end its not.
I dont think anyone is blaming refs for being human, but we've had some pretty solid evidence of some really shady and nasty happenings, yet people continue to act as though its not happening, even if they arent seeing it.
I remember not long ago the ORL Magic took tons of things to the league office and they said the nba kept telling them, youre right, your're right, your're right...yet and still there is never any solutions or compromises there.
Human element was totally eliminated for the players this year when guys were being kicked out of games for looking at refs not saying a word... Minnesota got 5 techs in 10 seconds against San Antoino
Again, there is no balance with this stuff, and as long as you just go gwedo on anyone who dares asks any questions then people wont trust you plain and simple
And I know that the Tim Donaghy situation has put a dark cloud over the NBA and rightfully so because he did rig games. BUT are we now to believe there are more Tim Donaghy's out there and the NBA is nothing but the WWE?I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm XComment
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Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
It won't be changed and I wouldn't expect it to be changed anytime soon either.
Live with it and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way but it is what it is.#RespectTheCultureComment
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Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
The question I have is that this 'shady' business that's going on, is it a result of the league being rigged or just unintentional bad officiating? It's one thing to officiate a bad game BUT it's another to rig a game through officiating.
And I know that the Tim Donaghy situation has put a dark cloud over the NBA and rightfully so because he did rig games. BUT are we now to believe there are more Tim Donaghy's out there and the NBA is nothing but the WWE?
Im not sure of your point or your question really
Rigged, fixed.. you can call names if you wish, but thats not really my thing
I just post what I see, you be the judge of that stuff just as I am, and there is definitely a huge chunk of the fanbase that sees something more than just human error at work sometimesComment
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Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
I dont think we look for it though... it just happens.
The announcers will start it off with, oh today theyre going to call it tight from the beginning this time
or... you just end up seeing some garbage happen at the most convinient time for a comeback, even multiple times in a row you see something get let go on one end and the other end its not.
I dont think anyone is blaming refs for being human, but we've had some pretty solid evidence of some really shady and nasty happenings, yet people continue to act as though its not happening, even if they arent seeing it.
I remember not long ago the ORL Magic took tons of things to the league office and they said the nba kept telling them, youre right, your're right, your're right...yet and still there is never any solutions or compromises there.
Human element was totally eliminated for the players this year when guys were being kicked out of games for looking at refs not saying a word... Minnesota got 5 techs in 10 seconds against San Antoino
Again, there is no balance with this stuff, and as long as you just go gwedo on anyone who dares asks any questions then people wont trust you plain and simpleThe question I have is that this 'shady' business that's going on, is it a result of the league being rigged or just unintentional bad officiating? It's one thing to officiate a bad game BUT it's another to rig a game through officiating.
And I know that the Tim Donaghy situation has put a dark cloud over the NBA and rightfully so because he did rig games. BUT are we now to believe there are more Tim Donaghy's out there and the NBA is nothing but the WWE?
I can't get behind the idea that things are rigged, mostly because I've seen too many refs just get overwhelmed by all that goes on at times, and have had conversations with some about their thought process on some calls/no calls (that were wrong but I could see how they came to their conclusion). If there is still some of that going on then you all have a right to be pissed, of course, but I think some guys think of every conspiracy theory and obvious miscue whenever they see a bad call (which happens every game) and just ruins it for them.
Definitely not saying that it isn't worth talking about, but if someone were still talking about the Mavs getting robbed years ago (for example), then they're just missing a beautiful product on the court. Unfortunately (or fortunately in some cases imo), it's part of the game we love.
I was wondering what was wrong with Rose when he went nuts after getting called for a foul on Price... certainly looked like a foul. That is until the replay showed that Price pulled his arm while shooting. That's part of the game. Maybe I'm just in the minority who are ok with that part of the game too.Comment
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Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
This is what I'm getting at. You used the term 'shady' and all I wanted to know is this just human error that's happening on the court or is this some sort of potential conspiracy to help teams to win more games and get to the championship?I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm XComment
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Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
Was it human error?
Was the 5 techs in 10 seconds human error?
Was the multiple one sided calls in Boston human error?
I could site multiple playoff scenarios like all of the phantom fouls on Minnesota against the Lakers as well... was that also human error?
Im not here being some kind of a team bias personality or being PC
Was it human error to bring in the army general? Why is he even there if everything is okay?
What does he do anyway?
How do you calculate human error vs. blatant non calls vs calls that shouldnt have been?
Is it human error to have Dick Bavetta reffing every single NBA finals?
Its a bunch of bull..
If they're consistently that bad at their jobs they need to be replaced, plain and simpleComment
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Re: Can the "nature" of the game be changed?
Dan Crawford was assigned because of the horrible officiating in the first game....well....according to that video PortlandBlazer posted in the thread. That was brutal.
And yes, Dre's right. If it's human error, you don't have the same morons reffing the most important games. And if they keep reffing and making "human errors", then maybe their old asses need to be given the boot and bring in people with better vision and ability to get into position. Of course that won't happen, because they're Company Men.Last edited by TheMatrix31; 04-19-2011, 06:41 PM.Comment
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