Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

[mKoz26]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

They just didn't outplay them dude. I'm sorry, but they didn't. The Hawks moved the ball better tonight then any of the other 3 games as far as I remember. They shot the ball much better, and got easy looks. If anyone on the team besides Carlos Boozer could make a shot, then sure, maybe then the Bulls would have played a better game, but nobody on that team shot worth a damn tonight and they allowed Josh Smith to put together one hell of a game. This was an impressive win for the Hawks.

Edit: Not to mention, even if the Bulls had made 7 additional free throws, they still would have lost. The Hawks got good looks and knocked them down while the Bulls struggled the entire night. Not to mention you had Rose throw up at least 36 or so shots when he obviously wasn't making anything.

Rose was getting HACKED every time he entered the lane. And with 7 (meaningful) free throws, the game is completely changed. That puts the Bulls up instead of tied 80 80 or 84 84 or whatever it was. Changes the game completely.

The refs were terribly inconsistent and it contributed to the Bulls' loss. That should never, never ever happen.

I just love "refs cost us the game" talk and "did you even watch the game?" insults. We don't get enough of that around here.

Don't act like there was an ounce of consistency tonight. The Rose call wasn't all that happened.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

Rose was getting HACKED every time he entered the lane. And with 7 (meaningful) free throws, the game is completely changed. That puts the Bulls up instead of tied 80 80 or 84 84 or whatever it was. Changes the game completely.

The refs were terribly inconsistent and it contributed to the Bulls' loss. That should never, never ever happen.

Don't act like there was an ounce of consistency tonight. The Rose call wasn't all that happened.

There's literally no way that refs won't impact a game. They're refs. They're there to impact the game. The Hawks played good defense most of the night and knocked down almost half of their shots while the Bulls struggled to make anything. Rose has shot slightly better the entire series, and pretty much the same way the entire regular season as well, but I guess he's gotten fouled on pretty much every shot of every game so far?

[mKoz26]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

There's literally no way that refs won't impact a game. They're refs. They're there to impact the game. The Hawks played good defense most of the night and knocked down almost half of their shots while the Bulls struggled to make anything. Rose has shot slightly better the entire series, and pretty much the same way the entire regular season as well, but I guess he's gotten fouled on pretty much every shot of every game so far?

This series has been much like the Indiana series in that Rose is only getting the calls if he can't get up a semi-clean shot at the basket. The hacks on the arms are not getting called. The in-air body contact is not getting called.

These are fouls that I see Josh Smith getting.

The whole "pump fake and jump into the defender thing" is getting called for Atlanta (or at least was tonight) and the Bulls didn't get it the two times they did it tonight. That's bull****.

And you can play the completely BS "refs will always impact a game" point if you wish, but it doesn't mean a thing, because bad reffing is still inexcusable regardless of how common it is.

AS I SAID BEFORE (read: already said this, you didn't acknowledge it), the refs should never contribute to one team's victory over another. That's exactly the opposite of their jobs.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

This series has been much like the Indiana series in that Rose is only getting the calls if he can't get up a semi-clean shot at the basket. The hacks on the arms are not getting called. The in-air body contact is not getting called.

These are fouls that I see Josh Smith getting.

The whole "pump fake and jump into the defender thing" is getting called for Atlanta (or at least was tonight) and the Bulls didn't get it the two times they did it tonight. That's bull****.

And you can play the completely BS "refs will always impact a game" point if you wish, but it doesn't mean a thing, because bad reffing is still inexcusable regardless of how common it is.

AS I SAID BEFORE (read: already said this, you didn't acknowledge it), the refs should never contribute to one team's victory over another. That's exactly the opposite of their jobs.

You didn't exactly respond to me either. How do you explain the fact that Rose is shooting the exact same way he has all season, but suddenly he's now shooting that same percentage while being fouled on most of those shots when he made it through 82 games making the same # of shots without being fouled every time he shot the ball? If Rose were suddenly getting fouled on all of these shots, that would mean that he's shooting exponentially greater in the playoffs than he did in the regular season. Now I know you've been watching all of the games, does it really look like his stroke has improved dramatically from the last 20 games of the regular season to now? I don't see it, but then again, I didn't catch every Bulls game this year, so maybe he shot a poor percentage in the regular season but is suddenly shooting magnificent now, or maybe he just hasn't gotten a shot off all year without being fouled. I don't know. But from the argument that you've been making, it sounds like one of those two things is happening, neither of which seems very plausible to me.

Edit: He's also shooting about the same # of free throws per game in the playoffs as he did in the regular season, so again, it seems like he's been getting hammered the entire season.

[Boltman]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

I just love "refs cost us the game" talk and "did you even watch the game?" insults. We don't get enough of that around here.

lol seriously.


Sounds like bitterness. Coulda' ,shoulda' and all that good stuff. The Bulls were outplayed. Besides, the series is all tied up. It's not like anyone is up 3-1.

Smith looks good when he is all over the place hustling and near the basket and not camping. He had a hell of a game.

[mKoz26]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

You didn't exactly respond to me either. How do you explain the fact that Rose is shooting the exact same way he has all season, but suddenly he's now shooting that same percentage while being fouled on most of those shots when he made it through 82 games making the same # of shots without being fouled every time he shot the ball? If Rose were suddenly getting fouled on all of these shots, that would mean that he's shooting exponentially greater in the playoffs than he did in the regular season. Now I know you've been watching all of the games, does it really look like his stroke has improved dramatically from the last 20 games of the regular season to now? I don't see it, but then again, I didn't catch every Bulls game this year, so maybe he shot a poor percentage in the regular season but is suddenly shooting magnificent now, or maybe he just hasn't gotten a shot off all year without being fouled. I don't know. But from the argument that you've been making, it sounds like one of those two things is happening, neither of which seems very plausible to me.

Speaking strictly about tonight, he didn't shoot many jump shots at all. He had a bunch of layups where he got hit and threw up a shot but didn't get the call. That hurt his shot percentage.

Other people will say he took too many runners and floaters, but he made about half of those, if not more. He just got hacked a ton on layups tonight with no call.

I understand what you're doing with the season stats, but players have times when their stats will deviate from their averages. Rose has been playing well in the playoffs compared to the regular season, but the concept of a "playoff foul" has limited his free throws in relation to his actual drives attempted and contact drawn.

[mKoz26]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

Edit: He's also shooting about the same # of free throws per game in the playoffs as he did in the regular season, so again, it seems like he's been getting hammered the entire season.

He's shooting way more shots, too. His free throws/shot attempt should be near the same. If he's shooting more shots with the same amount of free throws, something's wrong with him or the refs. It doesn't seem like it's him because he's forcing his way to the lane just as he has all season.

Idk if it's the "playoff foul" thing or not, but in the playoffs he's not getting calls.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

Speaking strictly about tonight, he didn't shoot many jump shots at all. He had a bunch of layups where he got hit and threw up a shot but didn't get the call. That hurt his shot percentage.

Other people will say he took too many runners and floaters, but he made about half of those, if not more. He just got hacked a ton on layups tonight with no call.

I understand what you're doing with the season stats, but players have times when their stats will deviate from their averages. Rose has been playing well in the playoffs compared to the regular season, but the concept of a "playoff foul" has limited his free throws in relation to his actual drives attempted and contact drawn.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. I haven't seen anything that suggests Rose has picked up his play in the playoffs yet and I just saw him flat out missing a lot of layups tonight. The guy tries to put the team on his shoulders, and for the most part, he's right to do so. However, he's shooting more 3 pointers in the playoffs (granted he's taking more shots overall too) and he's still shooting about the same percentage as he did in the regular season. I just find it highly unlikely that suddenly everything is a 3 pointer or a layup that should have been a foul when his numbers are the same as they were in the regular season and he hasn't really shot the ball any better in the postseason (from the few games I saw in the regular season + stats + the playoffs that I've watched every game of). I just find it highly unlikely that in the regular season, he was fine and shot 43%, but now in the postseason, you expect me to believe that everything is a badly called layup or a 3 pointer and yet he's still shooting the same percentage and getting to the free throw line the same amount.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

For the record, the playoff stats that I have been referring to were solely this particular series. Over the course of the entire playoffs, Rose has gotten to the line 9.4 times per game while taking about 23 shots per game. That's actually a higher percentage of free throws per field goal than he had during the regular season by about 6%, so he actually has gotten to the line more in the playoffs, just not in this particular series.

[mKoz26]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. I haven't seen anything that suggests Rose has picked up his play in the playoffs yet and I just saw him flat out missing a lot of layups tonight. The guy tries to put the team on his shoulders, and for the most part, he's right to do so. However, he's shooting more 3 pointers in the playoffs (granted he's taking more shots overall too) and he's still shooting about the same percentage as he did in the regular season. I just find it highly unlikely that suddenly everything is a 3 pointer or a layup that should have been a foul when his numbers are the same as they were in the regular season and he hasn't really shot the ball any better in the postseason (from the few games I saw in the regular season + stats + the playoffs that I've watched every game of). I just find it highly unlikely that in the regular season, he was fine and shot 43%, but now in the postseason, you expect me to believe that everything is a badly called layup or a 3 pointer and yet he's still shooting the same percentage and getting to the free throw line the same amount.

Like I said, the postseason stats can deviate from regular season averages. 9 games is a very small sample size compared to 82.

[mKoz26]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

For the record, the playoff stats that I have been referring to were solely this particular series. Over the course of the entire playoffs, Rose has gotten to the line 9.4 times per game while taking about 23 shots per game. That's actually a higher percentage of free throws per field goal than he had during the regular season by about 6%, so he actually has gotten to the line more in the playoffs, just not in this particular series.

Well the Pacers were REALLY fouling a ton.

Rose probably should have gotten even more free throws than he did in that series. Indiana took their shots at him over and over again.

This series, less fouling, but many free throws less too.

It's tough with Rose, though, because he's strong and tends to avoid hard contact, meaning refs can't rely on their usual "reaction of the shooter" crutch to make a call. With Rose, refs have to actually see what happened.

[Basketball GURU]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

NBA official Bennett Salvatore admitted he made a mistake in ruling an inadvertent whistle rather than a foul on a three-point shot attempt by the Chicago Bulls' Derrick Rose late in Sunday night's Game 4 against Atlanta Hawks.

"An inadvertent whistle is when a referee blows his whistle and didn't mean to. That's exactly what happened," Salvatore told a pool reporter. "I blew my whistle and didn't mean to, I didn't think it was a foul. Having watched the replay after the game, it was a foul and I should have called it. I made a mistake."

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nb...ory?id=6510712

Bulls were down 6, with 2:27 left in the 4th. Rose could have "potentially" cut the lead to 3.

[bakan723]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

Looked to me like he was looking to draw the foul too much on that play ( leaning into it, trying to create the contact ) than actually getting fouled.

Although i've seen them give that call alot also, even though i don't agree with it alot of times.

I'd like to see it again, actually. Anyone care to post the vid ?

[Altimus]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

It was a foul. We see Pierce do it, Wade do it, and so on. It is what it is and it should have been 3 free throws.

[23]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - Second Round Discussion Thread

a rook might make a mistake like that, but Salvatore?

hehe