CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

[VanCitySportsGuy]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I'm surprised a single media member hasn't asked Stern why aren't the Owners blaming themselves for this mess.

The owner's have all the leverage. I'm surprised they haven't told the Union that they either accept the current offer or else every other offer will get worse and worse until they agree to it.

If games are cancelled, I hope there are lots of fans that will stay away from buying a ticket.

[Rocky]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I've echoed this many times here and I don't think the system is broke. It may need a tweak, but that's far from being 'Not working'.

The owners don’t have to pay these ridiculous contracts. They are not forced to pay them that type of money. But they do it anyway.

This is almost like the argument of who’s responsible for the house bubble crisis. One side argues that the banks and lenders shouldn’t have lent out money to unqualified people in the first place. The other side blames those who sign up for loans to buy a $500K house only making minimum wage. There’s a lot more to it than this BUT of course I won’t delve into it due to the TOS.

Anyway, with that said, owners should take full responsibility for the status of the leagues finances. The players are not the ones forcing franchises to sign a non-superstar a max deal. The players aren’t the ones letting stadium deals fall through and then turning around and trying to put the tab on the hard working taxpayers. The players aren’t the ones who’s making decisions to start an NBA franchise where there are no basketball fans AND THEN turn around and move them to another location with few basketball fans as well. The players aren’t the ones wasting lottery picks on foreign players who won’t even play for them for the next two years. Then turn around and pay the buyout clause for the player’s current team. You get my drift.

This lockout is nothing but a front for the owners to cover up for the idiotic mistakes that they made and sway the public opinion to their favor. And some might ask, ‘Why would the owners value the public opinion?’ Well, if you kept up with the NFL Labor drama, the players tried to go through the courts to end the lockout and force the owners to sit down at the table and give up some control with bargaining. When you start dealing with the judicial court system, public opinion can be a key ally. So what’s to say that the NBA players union don’t follow the same game plan? NBA owners already are in place to deal with that if the players follow the same roadmap. Because if you don’t think the NBA owners isn’t following the NFL Labor situation, then your seriously fooling yourselves.

To play devil's advocate, the owners really have no protection against age, injuries, apathy, etc.

What if a guy is lights out for his entire career, you give him a contract that is worth his production, but he suffers a terrible injury and is never the same player again? (Arenas, Webber, Brand) You still have that contract on your hands.

What would you guys think about an arbitration system? It would work both ways. If a player feels like he has outproduced his pay, it would go to an independent arbitrator.

Obviously there would be some guidelines...such as a player could only use the arbitrator two times in his career, there would have to be some universal list or guidelines (so everybody wouldn't try to go to arbitration), etc.

[da ThRONe]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

To play devil's advocate, the owners really have no protection against age, injuries, apathy, etc.

What if a guy is lights out for his entire career, you give him a contract that is worth his production, but he suffers a terrible injury and is never the same player again? (Arenas, Webber, Brand) You still have that contract on your hands.

What would you guys think about an arbitration system? It would work both ways. If a player feels like he has outproduced his pay, it would go to an independent arbitrator.

Obviously there would be some guidelines...such as a player could only use the arbitrator two times in his career, there would have to be some universal list or guidelines (so everybody wouldn't try to go to arbitration), etc.

My guess is this would go into the tweak pile he mentioned. Which would most likely go over instead of the major overhaul that will end in a lockout. Especially when it's most bad deal aren't due to injury but completely over paying for guys.

[Dice]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

To play devil's advocate, the owners really have no protection against age, injuries, apathy, etc.

What if a guy is lights out for his entire career, you give him a contract that is worth his production, but he suffers a terrible injury and is never the same player again? (Arenas, Webber, Brand) You still have that contract on your hands.

What would you guys think about an arbitration system? It would work both ways. If a player feels like he has outproduced his pay, it would go to an independent arbitrator.

Obviously there would be some guidelines...such as a player could only use the arbitrator two times in his career, there would have to be some universal list or guidelines (so everybody wouldn't try to go to arbitration), etc.

I'd have no problem with that as well. Now stuff like that is circumstantial situations that some owners can't avoid. I agree that there does needs to be some protection against a guy who has played at an all-star level then his career gets derailed by injury. i.e. Grant Hill. BUT you'll find more 'Bum' deals in the league than 'Circumstantial' deals.

But spare me the rhetoric by the owners and the league of "Our league is loosing money because of overpaid players". Or "Our market is too small to compete". Stop paying the overpaid players. Stop making dumb free agent signings. Stop making bad draft choices. Stop moving franchises to areas where there is no interest. Stop blaming everybody else and START blaming yourselves. Stern and the owners is suppose to be running the league. And they did just that. They ran the leagues finances straight to the ground.

[23]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

They already have injury exceptions and players insurance where the owners arent paying all of the salary out

That's not going to be a good reason to not lock out

[Drewski]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I don't know how you resolve this without both sides losing, honestly.

This situation is so fragile. Both sides have legitimate points and concerns. The only way to satisfy both sides is for there to be no winner. Both sides need to sacrifice and find a way to hammer this out, this is absolutely going to kill the Magic's effort to find the best possible trade value for Dwight Howard (joking, though it's true to an extent).

I just hope it doesn't drag out very long... not a baseball guy, and football has been considerably bland for my tastes over the last few years. I need my October basketball.

[Altimus]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

A lot of the moves made last summer seem that they were made by owners under the impression that they will be able to get out of those deals this summer.

If this amnesty rule gets made and the technicalities of it will be very interesting.

My gut feeling is that we will go into the lockout but we will have hoops before 2012.

[Dice]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

I don't know how you resolve this without both sides losing, honestly.

This situation is so fragile. Both sides have legitimate points and concerns. The only way to satisfy both sides is for there to be no winner. Both sides need to sacrifice and find a way to hammer this out, this is absolutely going to kill the Magic's effort to find the best possible trade value for Dwight Howard (joking, though it's true to an extent).

I just hope it doesn't drag out very long... not a baseball guy, and football has been considerably bland for my tastes over the last few years. I need my October basketball.

Well that's the whole deal of negotiating. One side gives up something while the other gives up something as well. BUT when ever I read about the 'so-called' NBA Labor negotiations all I hear about is the owners submitted a proposal to the players union and the players union rejects it because it's no different from there last proposal. Haven't heard yet of a proposal submitted by the players. So basically, it's a game of, "We're the ****ing owners and if you don't take our deal then we're going to lock your asses out!"

[Drewski]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Well that's the whole deal of negotiating. One side gives up something while the other gives up something as well. BUT when ever I read about the 'so-called' NBA Labor negotiations all I hear about is the owners submitted a proposal to the players union and the players union rejects it because it's no different from there last proposal. Haven't heard yet of a proposal submitted by the players. So basically, it's a game of, "We're the ****ing owners and if you don't take our deal then we're going to lock your asses out!"

That's what I'm catching too. Seems the owners don't want to sacrifice much, and the players side isn't coming up with a reasonable solution, so we're at this stand still and in a few short weeks we'll find out how serious each side is about standing pat. I expect there to be a period where it is locked out, I think we can conclude that at this point. I'm hoping that doesn't turn into much more than killing a small portion of the off-season.

[WTF]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

Just a quick question in reference to the Salary Cap and the current Heat situation. ESPN was just reporting on the Big 3 and the implications that their salary has on the team:

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/heat****p

Looks like the big 3 are right at $51mil just between the 3 of them after the 2011-12 season (if there is one). So if there is a hard cap implemented, that means that one of them will have to be traded, correct?

I normally don't get into all of the salary cap stuff, but when ESPN ran it, and talked about how they are going to sign ANYONE, then it got me looking a little deeper into it.

$48mil for the 2011-2012 season is no joke either. What does that leave currently, around $6-7mil to fill out the rest of the roster?

[Drewski]

The Brightside: NBA Lockout

Surely we all are dreading a locked out, shortened, screwed up season. As if the off-season didnt feel long enough, right? But I think, when we look back, we'll find some positives in the lockout! How so?

(Just Examples)

- I don't have to watch Kobe chuck up shots every night (You know, double pump fake, turn around, with the left hand while closing his eyes, because he's Kobe and can hit difficult shots)
- Durant won't be throwing up hail mary 3's to end every game
- I won't have to debate about Lebr-... nevermind, probably still will
- David Stern can't fine players he doesn't have control over anymore

What are you looking forward to!?

(/sarcastic thread, but for the sake of my sanity when it comes to discussing ball)

[jeebs9]

Re: The Brightside: NBA Lockout

I'm looking forward to Bashing...

[Weeks]

Re: The Brightside: NBA Lockout

(/sarcastic thread, but for the sake of my sanity when it comes to discussing ball)

Ok I was worried for a second.
--------------------------------
-Don't have to see Carlos Boozer continually mess up defensive rotations.
-Don't have to see Noah or Brewer's jumpshot


Of course, this is sarcastic. If there is a lockout I may shoot myself.

[Drewski]

Re: The Brightside: NBA Lockout

Of course, this is sarcastic. If there is a lockout I may shoot myself.

Don't do it, we'll get through this together like any respectable grown men would.

- Greg Oden won't get hurt till later in the season (owch)
- The Pistons players have more time to plan the protest of their next coach.

[Drewski]

Re: CBA/Lockout Discussion Thread

- Dwight Howard will have a career low in technical fouls