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You looking at the Chair MAN!
Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either. -
#RespectTheCultureComment
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Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion
I won't take the ticky tacky route and use assumptions. The point is even when you've got the obvious upper hand like the owners do you don't completely destroy your workers because at the end of the day these same owners will be marketing these players they just proverbially sodomized. If you don't understand business it's best if you don't make such statements.Comment
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Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion
And no matter what side you're on but if you can't see that the players have no leverage at this point, then you must still be waiting for the Rapture to take place tonight.
Like it was said earlier(think it was by 24)this is about common sense now and common sense should tell AND show you that the players have nothing to gain by missing checks. If you wanted to show people that you had control then you should've walked out back in February at the ASB when you the chance.
Now you wanna miss games because of what? Ego? To tell your boys that you stood up to the big, bad NBA because of "what we believe in"? How does that help you at all in the long run? Seriously?
Guys like Dolan, Leonsis, Prokhorov, Jordan, Sterling, Cuban...these guys can afford to miss a season or MORE because they still have other methods of making plenty of money. The rest of them, I'm not even sure that they can survive this beyond 2 years(because I don't know their financial status at this point)
But let's cut the **** on one thing: The players don't any leverage at all. And what can the players say to the Owners? "Oh, you need us because nobody is going to come to see James White from Harlem, NY play for the Knicks because nobody knows who the **** he is, so now what!?!?"
And you know what the Owners then can say: "Ok, you're right about that but let me ask you this? Who's going to pay you what WE are paying you to sit around on your *** doing nothing? You think Nike or Adidas are going to continue to paying while you're sitting around participating in BS "Charity Tournaments" that can't even be seen nationally? What about in 2012-13 when there's still no Basketball, you don't think they're not going to ask you for a paycut or else they'll release you? The Fans are already starting to turn against you faster than they will on us, do you want to deal with that for the next couple of years while this thing lasts?"Last edited by ProfessaPackMan; 10-21-2011, 08:18 PM.#RespectTheCultureComment
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Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion
Very well said PPM... Exactly the case.Twitter - WTF_OS
#DropMeAFollowComment
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Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion
Either way we're arguing about the least important thing. Whether or not the players have any leverage or none. The fact remain that the owners have the upper hand and nobody disagrees with that.
Back to my point. I think at this stage if the players conceded to a 50/50 BRI split and cap structure they could manage to get some consessions from the owners.You looking at the Chair MAN!
Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.Comment
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Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion
Ken Berger on the lockout. BUT of course, after a few people read this article, he'll go from being 'level headed reporter' on the lockout to being a 'player loving propagandist hack writer'. But whatever, take it for what it's worth.
After latest NBA impasse, good luck finding someone who cares
NEW YORK -- This is a circus now, the big tent setting up at posh locations all over the island of Manhattan with men in clown suits parading in and out at all hours of the day and night.
Wasting our time, we come to find out.
Except that the difference with this circus is that no one wants to see it anymore. Soon, the owners and players will be negotiating in a forest with no one around to hear them except each other. And after what happened Thursday, oh, do they deserve that.
They deserve each other.
Mediated talks to end the NBA lockout blew apart with such force Thursday night, even as millions of fans had been led to believe a solution was near, that you could hear the collective groans of the gullible all across the land. It would've been the most uproarious version of comedy if it weren't so sad and despicable.
Mediator George Cohen didn't run to the bar this time, he ran all the way back to Washington, D.C., leaving a terse statement behind like a vapor trail. Barely 24 hours after speaking of how committed the parties were to solving their problems, Cohen said, "No useful purpose would be served by requesting the parties to continue the mediation process at this time."
And you know what? I agree. The ultimate optimist, the one who has spent hours thinking about and writing about solutions, indulging fellow optimists involved in the talks who thought right up until Thursday that a deal was possible -- I'm done.
No more circus tickets for me. No more bearded ladies and men on stilts. No more clown shows, and no more spin. No more believing in reason and compromise.
No more Mr. Nice Guy.
What happened Thursday was irresponsible and gutless -- which shouldn't come as a surprise in sports, where the irresponsible and gutless go to make their millions (or billions) and play us for fools.
They take our money to finance their palaces, gouge us for pretzels, beer and parking, and laugh all the way to the country club. All they want, said labor relations committee chairman Peter Holt of the San Antonio Spurs, whose arena was built with $145 million in public funds, is the chance to "make a few bucks."
Do me a favor, Mr. Holt: Leave the condescending cowboy talk in Texas where it belongs.
When they pick up the phone in a day or two -- and they will, they always do -- they'll expect you to care that they're getting together to try this again. Don't. Don't get played again.
When the news release goes out announcing the canceling of another chunk of your games, they'll expect you to understand -- and come back when it's all over.
Do that at your own peril.
I'm mad at everybody right now, but do you know who I'm angrier at? The owners. Why? Because I believe Billy Hunter and Derek Fisher when they say it was an ultimatum from the owners that shattered these talks Thursday night. Let me explain why.
After 24½ hours of seemingly productive mediation over two days, strange things happened Thursday. The heavy lifting that had been progressing over the previous two days was over the system issues upon which a turning point in the talks seemingly hinged. This is what we had been told when all hell broke loose on 63rd Street outside the Lowell Hotel on Oct. 10 -- that it wasn't about the money anymore, it was about the system.
And you know what it's about in sports when they tell you it's not about the money? You guessed it: It's about the money.
In fact, I had told you the next day not to fall for the banana in the tailpipe -- that this mumbo-jumbo about the system was just something to distract everyone for a while until the discussions inevitably came back to the split of BRI. And sure enough, back-schmack they went on Thursday, with league negotiators drawing a line in the sand at a 50-50 split of BRI and trying to sell it as a new proposal.
"The response back from the union today was they made a slight move from 53 to 52.5 percent of BRI, and that's where we broke off," said deputy commissioner Adam Silver, filling in for commissioner David Stern, who was home with the flu. "They made it clear that if our position was that we were unwilling to move beyond 50 percent, there was nothing else to talk about, and that's when the discussions broke off today."
On this point, union president Fisher stepped to the microphone in an adjacent room a short time later and cold-bloodedly accused Silver of lying.
"I want to make it clear that you guys were lied to earlier," Fisher said. "It's that simple."
Was he lying? That's a strong word; spinning is more like it. But Fisher and Hunter said it was the owners who presented the ultimatum: 50-50, take it or leave it. Those words came out of Chris Paul's mouth during the players' news conference, and Hunter said they essentially came out of Holt's mouth -- and while I wasn't in the room to prove it, the message was clear.
There are hard-liners among the owners who refuse to give the players a dime more than 50 percent, and some harder-liners who were reluctant to go even that far. But you know what? There are hard-liners on the union side, too -- agents and super agents and clusters of seven agents who didn't want to go a dime below 53 percent. I know of at least one powerful agent who never thought the players should have offered anything below 57 percent -- the share they received under the previous six-year deal.
The difference? Fisher and Hunter have successfully excluded those hard-liners from the bargaining process, all the way up to Thursday, when sources told CBSSports.com that some agents were still working the phones and telling their clients to "hold firm" and reject any deal below 53 percent. Hunter and Fisher ignored them and offered to go lower on Thursday -- to 52.5 percent if revenues came in as projected and as low as 50 percent if they came in lower.
The league has not only been unable to keep hard-line owners from influencing the negotiations, they couldn't even keep them out of the room Thursday. The new participant was Trail Blazers owner Paul Allen, who came as a messenger from the Board of Governors meetings that concluded earlier in the day, Hunter said.
"When Paul Allen came into the room, they alluded to Paul and said that Paul was there because the owners were of the position that they had given up too much in the negotiations and he was there to reaffirm their position," Hunter said.
Hunter said he made a speech to Allen, essentially asking him if the owners would table the BRI talk and try to finish tackling the system issues separately.
"Paul didn't respond," Hunter said. "He was just in the room."
The owners' BRI proposal had been the same as it was on Oct. 4, when talks broke down after an informal exchange involving star players Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce: a band of 49-51 percent for the players, depending on revenues. That night, the players countered with a band of 51-53 percent. This time, they came back with a band of 50-53 -- with the players getting as little as 50 percent if revenues came in under projections and no more than 53 if revenues grew more. The concept was the brainchild of union economist Kevin Murphy, according to a person familiar with the proposal.
"So here we are, we get here today and after some two-and-a-half days of negotiating ... they come in at the last minute and say, 'You've got an ultimatum. You can either accept 50-50, or it's off,' " Hunter said.
At the urging of Cohen, Hunter and Fisher went back into the room one more time to explain that the players couldn't agree to a BRI split without knowing what the system would be. It's sort of like asking the owners to commit to a revenue-sharing plan without knowing the overall economics -- something Silver said Thursday the owners couldn't do.
At this point, Hunter said Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert urged him to "trust his gut" that the system would be something the players could agree to.
"I said, 'No, I can't trust your gut,' " Hunter said. "I've got to trust my own gut."
The negotiations, for all practical purposes, were dead in their tracks.
Union attorney Jeffrey Kessler speculated that owners in the Board of Governors meetings Wednesday night and earlier Thursday had forced this take-it-or-leave it negotiating strategy on Silver, Holt and the rest of the labor relations committee. I don't have time for conspiracy theories at a time like this, although Kessler made a compelling -- if incendiary -- case, even implying that the strategy was somehow related to Stern's absence.
"This meeting was hijacked," Kessler said. "Something happened in that Board of Governors meeting. We were making progress. They came back, they came without the commissioner. They came with Paul Allen. We were told Paul Allen was here to express the views of the other members of the Board of Governors. And that view was, 'Our way or the highway.' That's what we were told. We were shocked. We went in there trying to negotiate, and they came in and they said, 'You either accept 50-50, or we're done, and we won't discuss anything else.' "
Now, let me say two things: 1) What happened Thursday night shouldn't be viewed as anything close to finality because of the simple fact that Stern was not in the room; and 2) there are still smart, well-meaning people involved in the negotiations who want to get a deal done and still believe it will happen.
A few more days of cooling off, write this off as another predictable if painful breakup, and move on.
But as for me, I'm out of optimism. I'm done analyzing payrolls and trying to fit economic concessions that would shift more than $1 billion to the owners over six years into the system changes they say they need to achieve competitive balance. If the owners don't want to try to blend those two crucial, inseparable, inexorably linked topics together at the bargaining table, why should I waste my time doing it?
"One goes to the total amount we pay the players and our ability to have a sustainable business," Silver said. "The other goes to a system in which all 30 teams can compete. And so we see them as completely unrelated."
If they want to set $800 million aflame -- the total carnage once the next two weeks of games are canceled -- over a $100 million annual difference in BRI, why should I try to stop them? Silver reminded me Thursday that $100 million a year is $1 billion over 10 years, which is true. But it's also true that the NBA and its players will lose 80 percent of that simply by canceling one month of games.
They have a name for this. It's called asshattery. Asshattery with a circus tent over it, and soon, no audience -- no one left who cares.
I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm XComment
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Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion
VERY good article there...Comment
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Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion
Seems like this may be the only chance to see a quick end to the lockout if the Players get a ruling in their favor.NLRB Ready To Rule On Union's Claim Against NBA
Sources tell ESPN that the National Labor Relations Board appears ready to issue a ruling on the union's clam of unfair labor practices against the NBA.
If the players' claim is successful, the NLRB would ask a federal court for an injunction that would end the lockout.
The players contend that the NBA has made "draconian demands and changes" to the collective bargaining agreement and imposed a lockout when there was "no impasse in bargaining."
The union asserts that the owners have made "harsh, inflexible, and grossly regressive 'takeaway' demands" intended to remove benefits the players have bargained for since 1995. The league has used "take it or leave it" tactics without "appropriate tradeoffs," say the players.
The players also claim the NBA engaged in "surface bargaining," without the actual intent of negotiating a new collective bargaining agreement with the players in good faith.
The NBA seems to recognize the risks presented by the union's claim. While Management does not usually participate in early maneuvering at the NLRB, the NBA has provided the NLRB with a significant amount of information in an attempt to dispute the union's assertions.
The NLRB's members are appointed by President Barack Obama and the board is considered by many to be predisposed to protecting union interests.
Via ESPN.com
Last edited by MikeJ2021; 10-22-2011, 01:58 AM.Comment
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Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion
No, that ISNT the least important thing. It's probably the crux of everything at this point. When you negotiate, when you negotiate ANYTHING, you HAVE to have SOME SORT of leverage. If you don't have ANY leverage, you're not going to get anything. The players have NO leverage, therefore they won't be able to "manage to get some concessions from the owners." That's the entire point. The players have pissed away what oh-so-very-small bargianing chips they've had, and now they have NOTHING. No, the owners will tell them to suck a fat one. As well they should.
Until you understand this, well, I don't know.Comment
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You looking at the Chair MAN!
Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.Comment
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Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion
This article speaks the truth:
Fan frustration could reach boiling point during this extended lockout
I really think fans should rally against the NBA and the players, and when this season or next season starts, welcome the players and owners with 30 empty arenas.Comment
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Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion
[SARCASIM]OH NO! Don't do that!
Why should we make the owners suffer when it wasn't their fault for this lockout. Let's keep giving the owners our money so they can make their billions and keep raping us at unreasonable rates. Besides, they care about us. 
[/SARCASIM]
I'm with it!
Boycott the first two weeks of the NBA, when ever it shows up. Let them know that the fans cancelled the first two weeks of the season!
I'd also suggest to boycott the first week of the playoffs as well. Let them know fans are unhappy with this crap.I have more respect for a man who let's me know where he stands, even if he's wrong. Than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil. - Malcolm XComment
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Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion
I, from the bottom of my heart wish the fans would do something like that. It would be the most amazing thing in the history of professional sports. Games would be like practices lol.Comment
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Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion
It won't happen.Too Old To Game Club
Urban Meyer is lol.Comment
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