NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

[Marino]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Bobcats weren't going to be **** anyways this year. I guess i will just have to wait a few months before the NBA starts up. Dumb move on the league's part. Instead of building off the magical year last year, its just millionaires complaining to billionaires. Oh well.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

How are the owners giving up anything. That's like me telling you that you can keep 10 extra % of your money then turn around and say I'm giving you 10% back.

Huh? The players aren't giving anything back. They have 0% right now because they are locked out. Neither do the owners. This is a new deal. If I'm an owner, I wouldn't fell like I need to be held by a bad deal made in 1998. This is 13 yrs later. The economy is different. The economics of the sport are different. Its square one and the players need to realize that. I'm not saying that they should accept 50% but they should at least work between 50-53%. Walking away was ridiculous.

Also all you guys who think the owners will blink....go to your local arena's website and look at its schedule until January. I'll use my local arena as an example, the Verizon Center. I am a Wizards season ticket holder and go to a ton of events at the VC and I've never seen a more stacked couple of months for that Arena. It has the Caps, Georgetown, A 5 day Horse Show, a Tennis Match, multiple concerts and the Cirque Du Soleil. You think Ted Leonsis cares if the NBA isn't playing games? He still has a ton of revenue coming in from other events and a hockey team that sells out his arena.

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Huh? The players aren't giving anything back. They have 0% right now because they are locked out. Neither do the owners. This is a new deal. If I'm an owner, I wouldn't fell like I need to be held by a bad deal made in 1998. This is 13 yrs later. The economy is different. The economics of the sport are different. Its square one and the players need to realize that. I'm not saying that they should accept 50% but they should at least work between 50-53%. Walking away was ridiculous.

Also all you guys who think the owners will blink....go to your local arena's website and look at its schedule until January. I'll use my local arena as an example, the Verizon Center. I am a Wizards season ticket holder and go to a ton of events at the VC and I've never seen a more stacked couple of months for that Arena. It has the Caps, Georgetown, A 5 day Horse Show, a Tennis Match, multiple concerts and the Cirque Du Soleil. You think Ted Leonsis cares if the NBA isn't playing games? He still has a ton of revenue coming in from other events and a hockey team that sells out his arena.

Which is also what I dont get about them throwing the "well the owners are hurting the workers in the arena" talk... All arenas host a ton of things...shoot I live by the forum, and the Lakers have been gone from there for years now, and they still have tons of events.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I hope the players enjoy 45% of the cap.

These players are about a week away from being in a ****load of trouble. And good. I don't like seeing ignorance being rewarded. The players are a bunch of morons, being ran by a moron, and hoping that the owners are just as stupid.

[greenegt]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I hate all parties involved. This is ridiculous.

[Altimus]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Huh? The players aren't giving anything back. They have 0% right now because they are locked out. Neither do the owners. This is a new deal. If I'm an owner, I wouldn't fell like I need to be held by a bad deal made in 1998. This is 13 yrs later. The economy is different. The economics of the sport are different. Its square one and the players need to realize that. I'm not saying that they should accept 50% but they should at least work between 50-53%. Walking away was ridiculous.

Also all you guys who think the owners will blink....go to your local arena's website and look at its schedule until January. I'll use my local arena as an example, the Verizon Center. I am a Wizards season ticket holder and go to a ton of events at the VC and I've never seen a more stacked couple of months for that Arena. It has the Caps, Georgetown, A 5 day Horse Show, a Tennis Match, multiple concerts and the Cirque Du Soleil. You think Ted Leonsis cares if the NBA isn't playing games? He still has a ton of revenue coming in from other events and a hockey team that sells out his arena.

The bottom line for the owners is to not lose as much. For most of these guys this is a hobby and not a way to make money. This isn't like the WWE and Vince McMahon.

Owners gave a chance and Hunter and company as ignorant as they are walked away. Hunter needs to go and the agents need to just stop. Their influence in this meeting cannot be overlooked.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

In latest letter to players, obtained by ESPN.com, Billy Hunter and Derek Fisher say 50/50 split of revenue "is simply not a fair split"

[Altimus]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Well, we'll see how "fair" things are months from now.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

The bottom line for the owners is to not lose as much. For most of these guys this is a hobby and not a way to make money. This isn't like the WWE and Vince McMahon.

Owners gave a chance and Hunter and company as ignorant as they are walked away. Hunter needs to go and the agents need to just stop. Their influence in this meeting cannot be overlooked.

Exactly. I just dont get why the players dont get this. They arent going to see 53% ever. Thanks never gonna happen. The league would rather blow up the season, and stick those guys with 47% and a hard cap next year. And they will do it to. 11 of the owners have NHL teams playing in their buildings. Owners like Jordan, Kohl and Sterling would probably save more money by not having games played (No employee expenses, no players salaries to pay)(Sterling doesnt get any revenue from Staples Center parking or food concessions)

All of this over what amounts to 80 mil. I'll lay one bit of blame with Stern. He needs to come up to 51%. Let Hunter save face with the union and present it as if the players still get the majority. The problem is technically they have only 1 day left to negotiate. NBPA already confirmed they wont meet on Wed or Thurs. Fri is Yom Kippur. So that leaves Sat night and Sunday.

[Altimus]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Exactly. I just dont get why the players dont get this. They arent going to see 53% ever. Thanks never gonna happen. The league would rather blow up the season, and stick those guys with 47% and a hard cap next year. And they will do it to. 11 of the owners have NHL teams playing in their buildings. Owners like Jordan, Kohl and Sterling would probably save more money by not having games played (No employee expenses, no players salaries to pay)(Sterling doesnt get any revenue from Staples Center parking or food concessions)

All of this over what amounts to 80 mil. I'll lay one bit of blame with Stern. He needs to come up to 51%. Let Hunter save face with the union and present it as if the players still get the majority. The problem is technically they have only 1 day left to negotiate. NBPA already confirmed they wont meet on Wed or Thurs. Fri is Yom Kippur. So that leaves Sat night and Sunday.

I think a deal is here for the making. On Monday they were hundreds of millions of dollars apart and today they are only 80 million. Agents are pushing these players and they're listening. Thing is the agents don't mind if this drags on because the agents that are pushing for this to continue are the high profile ones. And as we all know all these high profile agents are agents not only to NBA players but NFL, MLB, and so forth players. Not to mention other ways of income.

Either a deal gets done before Monday or this turns really ugly. I fear decertification is on its way. I don't think players fully understand how bad it can be for them if that happens.

Also the Kevin Garnett comments by various reporters make him seem like a joke. He has no business sitting in any of these meetings with his toddler like behavior.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

LOL @ Hunter and Fisher saying 50/50 is not a fair split.

Thats the DEFINITION of a fair split.

[RedSceptile]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

LOL @ Hunter and Fisher saying 50/50 is not a fair split.

Thats the DEFINITION of a fair split.

Well from what I heard there's some rumbling about that 8% escrow or whatever being removed so in essence it's a 42/58 split. Can't remember I'd have to do some more research on it later.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Huh? The players aren't giving anything back. They have 0% right now because they are locked out. Neither do the owners. This is a new deal. If I'm an owner, I wouldn't fell like I need to be held by a bad deal made in 1998. This is 13 yrs later. The economy is different. The economics of the sport are different. Its square one and the players need to realize that. I'm not saying that they should accept 50% but they should at least work between 50-53%. Walking away was ridiculous.

Also all you guys who think the owners will blink....go to your local arena's website and look at its schedule until January. I'll use my local arena as an example, the Verizon Center. I am a Wizards season ticket holder and go to a ton of events at the VC and I've never seen a more stacked couple of months for that Arena. It has the Caps, Georgetown, A 5 day Horse Show, a Tennis Match, multiple concerts and the Cirque Du Soleil. You think Ted Leonsis cares if the NBA isn't playing games? He still has a ton of revenue coming in from other events and a hockey team that sells out his arena.

Techinally your right once the owners opted out of the past CBA neither side has anything. But if if this is the case again how is it the owners are giving anything up? Neither side has anything right?

The players are in a tricky situation. On one hand the owners have pretty much all the leverage, on the other hand if they just reduce their share of BRI by 8-11% among the other things the owners are asking for. They will only continue to lose moving forward. As a union when does it end? The owners are introducing some major changes to the league all of which the NBPA view as worse than the previous CBA. How can you expect players to agree to a deal that's not beneficial to them as compared to the previous CBA.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Techinally your right once the owners opted out of the past CBA neither side has anything. But if if this is the case again how is it the owners are giving anything up? Neither side has anything right?

The players are in a tricky situation. On one hand the owners have pretty much all the leverage, on the other hand if they just reduce their share of BRI by 8-11% among the other things the owners are asking for. They will only continue to lose moving forward. As a union when does it end? The owners are introducing some major changes to the league all of which the NBPA view as worse than the previous CBA. How can you expect players to agree to a deal that's not beneficial to them as compared to the previous CBA.

Either they both have something or they both have nothing. If they both have something, you could argue that the players have the 57% and the owners have a hard cap, salary rollbacks and no guaranteed contracts. These are things both sides wanted. Through negotiations, the players gave back 4% and the owners eliminated the hard cap demand, salary roll backs and kept the guaranteed contracts. They both have given something. The problem is the owners (and me) believe the players should give up at least 2% more and the players dont want to.

They wont continue to lose moving forward. The reason they got the 57% in the first place was because on 98, the NBA was coming off the Jordan years and revenues were through the roof. If revenues were still through the roof, we wouldnt even have a lockout right now. The reality is this isnt 98. There is a recession and revenues are down (not as down as the NBA projected but they are down.). Lets say they agree to 51% and revenues go through the roof. The players can opt out in 5 or 7 yrs , demand a higher % and actually have the financial data to back their demand.

Also what major changes are they introducing? Mid level exception may be reduced but its still there. Bird exception is still there but limited. The only thing I heard is being eliminated is the sign and trade and most agree that it needs to go.

And why are major changes only OK if they benefit the NBPA? I wasnt hearing this complaint from the owners when the mid level was introduced. Or the Bird exception.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Techinally your right once the owners opted out of the past CBA neither side has anything. But if if this is the case again how is it the owners are giving anything up? Neither side has anything right?

The players are in a tricky situation. On one hand the owners have pretty much all the leverage, on the other hand if they just reduce their share of BRI by 8-11% among the other things the owners are asking for. They will only continue to lose moving forward. As a union when does it end? The owners are introducing some major changes to the league all of which the NBPA view as worse than the previous CBA. How can you expect players to agree to a deal that's not beneficial to them as compared to the previous CBA.

Because the last CBA was ridiculously slanted for the players. You show me a union job that the workers receives 57% of the revenue.

Basically, this is all because the last, old set of owners bought teams that were worth 5 million dollars and created hundreds of millions of dollars. Now, teams are being bought for 300 million, and people are losing money because of an unfair deal that the players are receiving most of the revenue.'

Everyone understands this, and most of the major sports, the owners are getting more than 50% of the revenue. I think Football it's the owners getting 52%, the NHL I want to say is something like 55%, and not sure on baseball.

Either way, the NBA is the only place where the owners are being screwed with their pants on because of the last CBA they signed. This isn't about rich dudes being greedy, this is about rich dudes needing to not lose money at a record pace because the players are getting all the profits. That system does not work for either owners, teams or players.

The fact that the players were just given a proposal to accept 50% of the revenue and they declined shows all I need to know about them. That would have been a steal, but because this entire system is backasswards, the players declined to accept the deal. They are trying to keep hold of the sweetheart deal they got 7 years ago or however long it's been.

The NBA is headed towards an NHL sized lockout if the players don't pull their heads out of their ***. The owners are in a stage where they won't blink, because paying the players nothing is a lot more of a benefit than paying them something. Either way, they lose money, and they lose less without a crappy NBA system right now.

I feel like Billy Hunter is either totally incompetent or he's allowing Fisher to dig his own grave. I cannot imagine that someone who is in such a high ranking job would be totally oblivious to what is going on here. It's mind boggling as to how out of touch the players are here. Their greed is going to end up biting them in the ***.

In the end, these things all balance themselves out. The courts will never allow the players to be screwed for an extend period of time, and the owners wealth will never allow them to be screwed. It's all about leadership and vision as to how quickly they can work things out. Right now, the leadership and vision on the players side looks like that akin to a combination of Stevie Wonder's vision and George Custer's leadership skills.