NBA Lockout and Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Is this new or was this already known?

This has been known but REALLY UNDERREPORTED. Berger reported this last week.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

One hurdle down:

Mid level exception changes agreed to by both sides:

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/feature...ign/index.html

Good sign, not good enough, but good sign.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

So the change to the mid-level is only in length?

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

So the change to the mid-level is only in length?

Appears so but that was my biggest problem with it. Artest earned his money year one but not year two. I would love to be able to let him go now,

[Dice]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I'm ready for college Bball... the only bad part about it is the lack of 82 games a season. I need a bball fix, but the mouths on some of the players is making it hard to cheer for them.

In all honesty, I'm not ready for college ball. College B-ball has been down as far as the performance the last couple of years. That championship game last season was the worst championship game I've seen in my time watching basketball.

And if I see Butler in the championship game one more time, I'm going to throw up.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Appears so but that was my biggest problem with it. Artest earned his money year one but not year two. I would love to be able to let him go now,

Yeah, my comment was an actual question rather than "just length? not money?" lol


And put me down as a "meh" on college basketball. Too much riff-raff. The tournament is awesome but overall, eh. The college game is even sloppier than the NBA game. They care more and there's a ton of energy, but in the end, it's just not professional, and I guess that's why I can't get behind it.

[djep]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

In which industry does the employee ever make more than the employer?

NBA players deserve 10 year, 250 mill deals the most? Why? So their egos can become even bigger and they can become even bigger primadonna annoyances?

Of course we tune in to watch the players. That fact, however, is irrelevant in this discussion.

In what industry does the employee provide all the value to the product while the employer's only contribution is being adept at turning money into even more money? The only reason you have for maintaining the system is "that is the way the system has always worked".

I don't deny that player egos are out of control but that doesn't mean that their real value in a free and open market isn't well above and beyond what they are being paid. In a no cap NBA, do you think LBJ would've scored an Arod-sized contract, if not more?

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

The employees are always the meat of the operation. But that doesn't matter.

And LeBron would probably make a big A-Rod like splash if the league were uncapped, but I'm not sure how that's relevant in terms of a comment saying "if anyone deserves 10/250, it's the NBA player". If anyone deserves that money, it's Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. The best of the best, the most marketable, in the biggest sport in the country.

[l3ulvl]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I just hate what professional sports have become. Only thing these guys are providing is entertainment, and they make way more than most anyone providing actual service. I know I've ranted about it before so I won't blow up here, but professional athletes and actors don't deserve anywhere near what they earn, but because the fans are willing to pay through the nose to watch and support them, all that revenue has to go somewhere. What if there was a fan holdout? Could we all unite and protest the games? Would kids still strive to become famous athletes if the max contract was 100k?

[djep]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Couple of things wrong with this statements:

-The NHLPA, MLBPA and the NFLPA are all bigger (NFL and MLB are bigger in size and recognition).

NBAPA is the smallest in size, definitely, and not nearly as pwerful as MLBPA (one of the strongest in the country) but is a whole lot stronger than the NFLPA. The NFLPA folded like a house of cards and gave the owners practically everything they wanted. It's hard to control a union of that size with so many lower-paid members.

- The owners opened up their books to the Union a few months ago. The Union doesnt dispute that the owners are losing money.

The union found that the teams were amortizing the expenses associated with the purchase of the franchise. That says nothing about the profiability of a franchise if you're offsetting the cost of the purchse every year. The union doesn't dispute that certain teams are losing money but the real number is something far from what the league claims and can be offset with revenue sharing. Since nobody in public has seen their books, I'll take the union's claims with a grain of salt. But open the books to the public and let us see who is fudging their numbers. Is it really all the franchises with owners who have purchased in the last 10 years? If so we will know why their losses are as significant as the league claims.

- Selling a Franchise is not a cure all for losses. Say I buy a franchise for 400 million and I lose 50 million a year for the first 3 years I own it (Total of 550 mil). Lets say I sell it for 500 mil in year 4.....I've still lost 50 million. Bob Johnson sold the Bobcats to Jordan and took an overall loss from the transaction.

That's one of the worst franchises in the league in a poor market that has never been good for NBA basketball. Why should they be guaranteed a profit in that terrible market? This is like the housing issue pre-bubble burst - why should anyone be guaranteed to turn a priofit in any business venture? Is it really a surprise that an NBA team in Charlotte isn't a cash cow? Shouldn't there be some inherent risk?

- Salary rollbacks havent been on the table for the last few months so thats a non issue. The 7% (57% to 50%) is not a salary rollback. Its lessens the guaranteed total money that players receive from Basketball Related income.

Gotcha. Never understood exactly what BRI entails. Does that affect the salary cap?

[djep]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

The employees are always the meat of the operation. But that doesn't matter.

And LeBron would probably make a big A-Rod like splash if the league were uncapped, but I'm not sure how that's relevant in terms of a comment saying "if anyone deserves 10/250, it's the NBA player". If anyone deserves that money, it's Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. The best of the best, the most marketable, in the biggest sport in the country.

I disagree - that's where it does matter. They're not just the meat - they're the potatoes, the wine, the creme brulee...all of it. The employers only contribution is money and their earning power is in perpetuity as long as they choose to hold on to a franchise. Most players are lucky to have a good 5 year career and have to maximize while their value is high.

It's not a matter of deserves because I think we can all agree that no one deserves this much money. It sickens me and has taken a lot of the joy pro sports brought to me as a kid but if you believe that people deserve to make whatever someone is willing to pay them, then I think you have to agree that LBJ would've gotten the richest sporting contract in the history of US sports. The only reason he isn't is because of an artificial cap on earning that is un-American.

[da ThRONe]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

I disagree - that's where it does matter. They're not just the meat - they're the potatoes, the wine, the creme brulee...all of it. The employers only contribution is money and their earning power is in perpetuity as long as they choose to hold on to a franchise. Most players are lucky to have a good 5 year career and have to maximize while their value is high.

It's not a matter of deserves because I think we can all agree that no one deserves this much money. It sickens me and has taken a lot of the joy pro sports brought to me as a kid but if you believe that people deserve to make whatever someone is willing to pay them, then I think you have to agree that LBJ would've gotten the richest sporting contract in the history of US sports. The only reason he isn't is because of an artificial cap on earning that is un-American.

I agree I think it's crazy the owners want to cap earning and get a larger piece of the pie. Why not just give players uncapped salaries? And then show some restraint when signing players.

Also I don't think there's a team sport where one individual player matters more than basketball.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

^What's your point about your last comment?

Since nobody in public has seen their books, I'll take the union's claims with a grain of salt.

New Jersey has opened up their books to the public but I didn't even think we would need to see that to see that they're losing money and if it wasn't for The Russian stepping in, they would continue to lose money. In a way, they're still losing money right now but with the move to Brooklyn, they(well really The Russian)stands to make up the losses.

[23]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

Dont forget the NOH were pretty much headed to contraction had the NBA not bought it when it did

When these group of players are gone, more will come, so remember that. Owners have to think more long term, and players right now definitely aint fighting for little Johnny's future

You really think they care if Melo Jr gets 57% of the money after they're long gone? LOL@ you if you do

[Marino]

Re: NBA Lockout and Collective Barganing Agreement Discussion

What's your point about your last comment?


New Jersey has opened up their books to the public but I didn't even think we would need to see that to see that they're losing money and if it wasn't for The Russian stepping in, they would continue to lose money. In a way, they're still losing money right now but with the move to Brooklyn, they(well really The Russian)stands to make up the losses.

Yeah, all the books were opened by the owners at the beginning of the process.