Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

All of this Laker and Draft non-sense is off-topic and has derailed this entire thread.

I understand the "conflict of interest" in sending Paul to Lakers or whatever... I guess (giving up perennial all-star big man and 6th MOY, changing the face of the squad they've been running the last few years). But GM's make moves in the best interest of that specific team's basketball operations. Dan Gilbert's emailing citing things that have almost nothing to do with NO as the reason they're "opposed" to it clearly proves the league does not understand that the New Orleans Hornets are a franchise that needs to be run free of that issue. If that trade happens with an owner, this never happens, because there is no "intervention". This is absolutely insane. Poor, poor showing for a league about to get ready to pick up momentum again. Bogged back down by more weight. You guys value Rondo and Jeff Green on the last year of his contract more than 1) Kevin Martin 2) Luis Scola 3) Lamar Odom 4) Goran Dragic? That's not a bad haul at all and leaves the Hornets in a pretty good position logistically. A GM, doing what's best for their organization, would make that trade. Seems like the owners let their own private interests interfere with the New Orleans Hornets'.

Personally, I would think they have more of an issue with the fact that the Hornets GM agreed to a different deal but had to take it off the tables because his client basically tried to pretend he had a no-trade clause when he really didn't (if the reports are true that CP3 said he would refuse to report to anyone's training camp besides the Lakers).

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Rondo and Green don't saddle New Orleans with 15 million dollars more than they're giving out.

[rsnomar05]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

im copying this from prosportsdaily forum:

i'm telling you guys this is bad. with the reports of Cuban furiious over the trade, and Gilberts letter filled with Anti-Laker sentiments and then there is this

1) All 29 owners can not have a say in who and where any player goes on New Orleans because it's a conflict of interest.
2) For this reason, a mediator should be chosen. That person is Dell Demps.
3) He was chosen to avoid that conflict.
4) He has the fiduciary duty to make decisions that will maximize the return to the principle (NBA & owners).
5) Due to the conflict of interest, the NBA or the owners cannot have a say or question the mediator's authority as it negates the purpose of the original agreement.
6) It is therefore a beach of contract by Stern (NBA) due to voir dire.

this is some serious stuff that went down today. i wouldn't be suprised if the courts step in and put a stay on all league activities

This is just flat out wrong. First, "due to voir dire?" Voir dire is the process by which attorneys select or reject certain jurors to hear a case. Basically, the attorneys interview the prospect jury members and attempt to weed out any prejudice and biases. THIS SITUATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A JURY TRIAL. Voir Dire can also refer to weeding out expert witnesses for bias/prejudice/lack of expert qualifications in a trial but again, THIS SITUATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A JURY TRIAL.

Furthermore, mediation is an alternative dispute resolution whereby disputing parties negotiate there own legal settlement with the assistance of a third party mediator to avoid litigation. THIS SITUATION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LITIGATION OR MEDIATION. And even if it did, Dell Demps is not a mediator nor was he chosen to be one. The owners are not in mediation with Chris Paul, the Lakers, the Rockets, or anyone else regarding this trade.

Dell Demps, as stated above, is not a mediator. He is a general manager who was appointed by the league to oversee the New Orleans Hornets. As such, he is under the authority of the 29 owners. Because he, and the Hornets, are owned by The league, THERE IS NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

Also, saying the owners have no say in what goes on because of their agreement with Dell Demps (making him the GM) is just stupid. Owners can go over their GM's head any time they want to, as they are the owners. They get the final say. Thus they can approve or cancel any decision that their GM makes.

Finally, fiduciary duty? REALLY? Yes, a court could find that one exists here. But so what? Either one or two things happened: Demps violated his fiduciary duty by making this trade, in which case HE is liable to legal action for breach of fiduciary duty, or he did not violate his fiduciary duty in which case he is not liable to legal action for breach. Either option is irrelevant as to whether or not the owners had the right to block this trade.

As Dell Demps was not a mediator or appointed to be one (and mediation is not even at issue), the owners had every right to block the trade.

Conflict of interest occurs when a lawyer represents a school, learns the ins-and-outs of the school practices, then turns and around and helps a parent sue the school. It does not apply in a situation such as this.

This was probably the most inaccurate legal post I've read on OS, and that includes someone thinking it's okay to intentionally get someone drunk so they will sign a contract without reading it. Sheesh.

[1Rose]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Rondo and Green don't saddle New Orleans with 15 million dollars more than they're giving out.

This is something that keeps being ignored.

The Hornets are league owned. Taking on $15 million while losing your number #1 draw is not in the best interest of the league, regardless of what it does for them basketball wise.

[rsnomar05]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Rondo and Green don't saddle New Orleans with 15 million dollars more than they're giving out.

And it's Rondo and Green + Avery Bradley and two draft picks (including this years Clippers pick). So yeah, I do value that more. Especially given that fact that, as Matrix pointed out, I'm not saddled with that 15 million.

[Drewski]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Rondo and Green don't saddle New Orleans with 15 million dollars more than they're giving out.

Nor do they make them as good as that group theyd be receiving would. Rajon Rondo is good and all but he's not the business. And Jeff Green has fallen into obscurity, think the guy can play but he's nothing to write home about. Not sure I'd be interested in buying a team that doesn't look like it'd even make the playoffs vs. a team that has alot of flexible pieces with skill. And Kevin Martin is no slouch at the 2, in an age where that is one of the weakest fielded positions.

Avery Bradley Vs. Goran Dragic, I'm taking the Goran. The draft picks are nice, I like the Clippers pick. Is it protected? Is it this year? Did the Clippers just sign Caron Butler with an ever improving Eric Gordon, and Mr. Blake Griffin? Clippers pick is probably a mid first if I had to project, and the other pick (is it a C's pick, I'm going to assume it is) is a late first rounder. Talking potential role players (generally) vs. proven players.

[rsnomar05]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

This is something that keeps being ignored.

The Hornets are league owned. Taking on $15 million while losing your number #1 draw is not in the best interest of the league, regardless of what it does for them basketball wise.

And it's the 29 owners who have to pay that 15 million, so of course they're upset.

[1Rose]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Nor do they make them as good as that group theyd be receiving would. Rajon Rondo is good and all but he's not the business. And Jeff Green has fallen into obscurity, think the guy can play but he's nothing to write home about. Not sure I'd be interested in buying a team that doesn't look like it'd even make the playoffs vs. a team that has alot of flexible pieces with skill. And Kevin Martin is no slouch at the 2, in an age where that is one of the weakest fielded positions.

Again, while you only focus on basketball related value (while the Celtics deal is still better), the league is focused on the deal financially. They had every right to veto the trade.

[rsnomar05]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Again, while you only focus on basketball related value (while the Celtics deal is still better), the league is focused on the deal financially. They had every right to veto the trade.

And even if he's right and the Lakers trade was better (I don't think it is, but he's entitled to his opinion), that doesn't matter, because if the reports are true, Dell Demps accepted the Celtics offer. DELL DEMPS THOUGHT THE CELTICS OFFER WAS BETTER. But CP3 said he wouldn't show up to training camp in Boston, so Demps was forced to accept what he felt was the lesser offer. And Demps accepting what he feels is a lesser offer (even if it's not his fault like in this case) gives the owners every right to block that trade.

[MizzouBravesFan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

2k12 is now more sim than the NBA...

The NBA is now pro wrestling.

What a frickin debacle wrapped around a joke...

[Drewski]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

And even if he's right and the Lakers trade was better (I don't think it is, but he's entitled to his opinion), that doesn't matter, because if the reports are true, Dell Demps accepted the Celtics offer. DELL DEMPS THOUGHT THE CELTICS OFFER WAS BETTER. But CP3 said he wouldn't show up to training camp in Boston, so Demps was forced to accept what he felt was the lesser offer. And Demps accepting what he feels is a lesser offer (even if it's not his fault like in this case) gives the owners every right to block that trade.

The whole CP3 not showing up to camp thing is "sources" and gossip, we haven't heard anything from CP3's side only what "sources" inform us of. Until there is definitive details that emerge I remain extremely skeptical. If it was as easy as just "not showing up", it wouldn't matter because the contracts would be exchanged even if it was against the players wishes. A player can't stop a trade, so Chris Paul, literally, could not do that. The GM had to do so, not Paul. It doesn't add up to me, smells fishy.

As far as taking on an extra $15 million, if you're going to attract an owner, I'd argue it'd be better to have $15 million in value spent and that deal than the Rondo/Green/Picks deal.

[rsnomar05]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

The whole CP3 not showing up to camp thing is "sources" and gossip, we haven't heard anything from CP3's side only what "sources" inform us of. Until there is definitive details that emerge I remain extremely skeptical. If it was as easy as just "not showing up", it wouldn't matter because the contracts would be exchanged even if it was against the players wishes. A player can't stop a trade, so Chris Paul, literally, could not do that. The GM had to do so, not Paul. It doesn't add up to me, smells fishy.

Right, Paul can't stop a trade, but he sure as hell can say, "If you trade me to the Celtics, I won't show up to training camp. I will refuse to go. I WILL NOT PLAY FOR THAT TEAM." Sure, it might literally be the GM who ultimately says, "Okay, I guess we have to accept the Lakers offer," but let's be real: No GM is going to trade a player to a team when that player says he won't report to training camp. Just as no GM will trade for a player who says he won't report to training camp. We can argue semantics over who literally stopped the trade, but this was Paul's doing. He didn't want to go to the Celtics so he nixed the trade.

And yes, it's speculation, but why would the Celtics FO leak info that they had scheduled a physical for Paul when it's not true? Wouldn't that just risk pissing off Rondo?

[Drewski]

Right, Paul can't stop a trade, but he sure as hell can say, "If you trade me to the Celtics, I won't show up to training camp. I will refuse to go. I WILL NOT PLAY FOR THAT TEAM." Sure, it might literally be the GM who ultimately says, "Okay, I guess we have to accept the Lakers offer," but let's be real: No GM is going to trade a player to a team when that player says he won't report to training camp. Just as no GM will trade for a player who says he won't report to training camp. We can argue semantics over who literally stopped the trade, but this was Paul's doing. He didn't want to go to the Celtics so he nixed the trade.

And yes, it's speculation, but why would the Celtics FO leak info that they had scheduled a physical for Paul when it's not true? Wouldn't that just risk pissing off Rondo?

And then he will be disciplined like any other player who does this. If he's traded, he's traded, and if the Hornets made that trade in some type of official way then the Celtics deserve to have that trade granted.

Too little details in a complicated mess. Let's see what plays out

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[rsnomar05]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

And then he will be disciplined like any other player who does this. If he's traded, he's traded, and if the Hornets made that trade in some type of official way then the Celtics deserve to have that trade granted.

Too little details in a complicated mess. Let's see what plays out

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

Right, but disciplining hasn't stopped players in the past from holding out or not showing up. I mean, look at Barry Sanders and the Lions? Danny Ainge would be a fool to trade for a player who said he wouldn't show up. He's not a fool, so ultimately the deal was called off. And if the sources are true, then this is on Paul.

[HMcCoy]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Read that email by Dan...he needs to shut up. Someone is still bitter Lebron dumped him on national television after years of catering to him. I don't feel sorry for Dan, he (and or the GM) never gave Lebron a good teammate (besides Varejao) to work with.

Cavs were never bad enough to stockpile high picks for a few years to help LeBron or at least offer as trade bait. Bronny signing a short deal also discouraged FA's in a market that has a hard enough time attracting players.

LeBron's talent and background intentions were as resoponsible as anything else, IMO.