Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

[1Rose]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

You must not watch much Knick games. The Knicks play no defense is laughable. The Knicks problem this year isn't defense, it was no PG to run the Offense.

The Knicks are 8th in defensive efficiency. That doesn't happen playing No Defense.

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Where do you get this stat from? I'm being serious. I saw someone else throw out a similar stat.

They are the 13th in points allowed and one of the worst rebounding teams in the league, and have benefited from a pretty favorable schedule, especially these last 7 games. Let's not all of a sudden pretend the Knicks are something they are not. From what I've watched it was pretty swiss cheese-esque. Especially that Timberwolves game. Even the Raptors game, Calderon was pretty much doing whatever he wanted.

Like I said, you'll be able to outscore bad teams or decent teams that don't have the offensive weapons you have, but let's not act like all of a sudden the Knicks are out their playing lockdown defense ala the contenders in the east, Philly, Miami, Chicago etc.

[bigfnjoe96]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Where do you get this stat from? I'm being serious. I saw someone else throw out a similar stat.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/defensiveEff/order/false

They are the 13th in points allowed and one of the worst rebounding teams in the league, and have benefited from a pretty favorable schedule, especially these last 7 games. Let's not all of a sudden pretend the Knicks are something they are not. From what I've watched it was pretty swiss cheese-esque. Especially that Timberwolves game. Even the Raptors game, Calderon was pretty much doing whatever he wanted.

Like I said, you'll be able to outscore bad teams or decent teams that don't have the offensive weapons you have, but let's not act like all of a sudden the Knicks are out their playing lockdown defense ala the contenders in the east, Philly, Miami, Chicago etc.

So now the Knicks are benefiting from a favorable schedule? Isn't that what GOOD Teams are suppose to do? Every team in the league will have a favorable stretch of games. I'm not gonna apologize because the Knicks have played well in that stretch. I also guess beating the Lakers last Friday was a fluke too?

You talk about Calderon lighting the Knicks up. What did Calderon do in the 4th quarter of that game? Nothing, Na-Da, Didley Squat. Shumpert locked him down & the Knicks won the game. They also made stops when they needed too, holding Toronto only scored 12 points in the 4th. Against the Timberwolves they allowed 11 points in the 4th quarter.

Yes the Knicks need to rebound better, but too say they play no D & can't get stops when they need to is false my friend

[1Rose]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Well if they were a good team, then yes that is what they are supposed to do. This is also a run NO ONE expected them to make. I guess you forget that just not too long ago they were dead in the water with that favorable schedule. Cool, they beat the Lakers, they are a middle of the road team too.

Teams get hot, it happens. I know you guys are starved for some success, but let's calm it down a little until they start beating good teams. Sunday will be a good test.

[SteelersFreak]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Well if they were a good team, then yes that is what they are supposed to do. This is also a run NO ONE expected them to make. I guess you forget that just not too long ago they were dead in the water with that favorable schedule. Cool, they beat the Lakers, they are a middle of the road team too.

Teams get hot, it happens. I know you guys are starved for some success, but let's calm it down a little until they start beating good teams. Sunday will be a good test.

I already have a built-in excuse for the Knicks beating the Mavs on Sunday. We probably aren't gonna have Jason Terry.

[bigfnjoe96]

Well if they were a good team, then yes that is what they are supposed to do. This is also a run NO ONE expected them to make. I guess you forget that just not too long ago they were dead in the water with that favorable schedule. Cool, they beat the Lakers, they are a middle of the road team too.

Teams get hot, it happens. I know you guys are starved for some success, but let's calm it down a little until they start beating good teams. Sunday will be a good test.

No Knick Fans on this board are hyping the Knicks because of what's happening. No one on this board actually saw this coming. Especially with Melo getting hurt & the way we were playing.

What some Knick fans on this board did know, myself included is that with a competent PG the offense would pick up.

It just happens that J-Lin is that PG when everyone thought it would be Baron.

BTW you mention starving for success. As a Bulls fan are you not starving for success? Your team hasn't been that great either until a couple of years ago.

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[SteelersFreak]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

No Knick Fans on this board are hyping the Knicks because of what's happening. No one on this board actually saw this coming. Especially with Melo getting hurt & the way we were playing.

What some Knick fans on this board did know, myself included is that with a competent PG the offense would pick up.

It just happens that J-Lin is that PG when everyone thought it would be Baron.

BTW you mention starving for success. As a Bulls fan are you not starving for success? Your team hasn't been that great either until a couple of years ago.

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BUT BULLS ARE ELITE TEAM AND KNICKS ARE SUCK

[RedSceptile]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

To be fair his team also had arguable the greatest basketball player of all time, dominated a decade, and was a dynasty.

Bulls fans probably aren't as starved as Knicks fans to be fair. This past decade they were a mediocre/sometimes decent team.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

No one said D'Antoni's system doesn't work. Find it if you can.

Everyone one (Knicks fans here) questioned what he was doing with Melo at Point Forward and Amare as a "Stretch 4".

That's not his system. He changed it in the summer because he had piss poor PGs on his team.

I think D'Antoni is still a bad coach in the sense that:
1. He only coaches one side of the ball
2. He has shown to be horrible at drawing up last second plays
3. He didn't utilize the strengths of Amare in the Pick & Roll (seems to be because of the PGs and/or trying to appease Melo)
4. He changed his system because of one player (Melo) instead of sticking to what he knew. Might have to give him a little credit here because his system did not work with the original group of players.

Do I like D'Antoni now all of a sudden? Hell freaking no!

Maybe some of these bandwagon Knick fans might.

D'Antoni's system is flawed and has been. He just benefited from great point guard play. Dude's never been about ish without Steve Nash. And there's a reason the Suns never got past the ECF.

Think about the difference in systems and coaching between those guys you listed. D'Antoni coaches no D, doesn't command his players like those guys do, wants guys to shoot every open shot they get and play fast. Mentioning D'Antoni in the same sentence as Phil, Sloan, Pop is an insult to them.

I don't care if we don't have the players to make his system look good. We're not changing the players, so he needs to change the system. We already have the best front court but can't figure out how to use them. He was talking about using Melo to initiate the offense as a point-forward at the beginning of the season...yea...that worked real well until it became Iso-7. We've lost 5 straight games, what adjustments has he made? None. Same losing attitude, same losing habits, same lack of defense, intensity, effort, offense, etc. He needs to get the entire hell out of New York.

I hate Mike D'Antoni and his ****** ****ing system. I can't wait until he's gone and I don't have to watch 8 forwards rotate all game long anymore.

Go to hell dantoni.

Remember, it was only a few weeks ago that some people wanted him gone(living in NY, prior to 2/14/12, that's all you heard)even when people knew he didn't have the right PG for that system, which is why I asked that question.

Now that he has that and it's looking like it's not the system, is he still a bad coach(which you've already answered)and do people still want him gone regardless or are they willing to give him another chance with possibly a full offseason?

[1Rose]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

No Knick Fans on this board are hyping the Knicks because of what's happening. No one on this board actually saw this coming. Especially with Melo getting hurt & the way we were playing.

What some Knick fans on this board did know, myself included is that with a competent PG the offense would pick up.

It just happens that J-Lin is that PG when everyone thought it would be Baron.

BTW you mention starving for success. As a Bulls fan are you not starving for success? Your team hasn't been that great either until a couple of years ago.

Sent from Awesome Phone

Ehh, we had some brutal years in the last decade, none as bad as the Knicks tho, and I at least have a ship, actually 6, that I was alive for to hang my hat on.

And what do you mean? The second they sign JR a thread goes up a immediately asking if they are contenders.

Anyone with a pulse who watches basketball, knew they needed a PG, but didn't think it would lead to a 7 game win streak. All I'm saying is, let's chill with the Knicks hype and the proclamation of them being a good defensive team until they do it against the elite teams. Like I said, Sunday will be a good test.

I'm as unbiased as about anyone, I'm actually ROOTING for the Knicks lol that's the thing. Good basketball in NY is good for the NBA, I'm just hesitant to make any judgments until we see some better evidence. Beating the Raptors at the buzzer doesn't sell me yet.

[CMH]

I want him gone for being stubborn and incompetent.

If his system is run pick and rolls then that's a horrible reason to pay a coach good money. I could tell a team to run pick and rolls with that roster and be successful without knowing a thing about basketball.

The Knicks still have very few offensive sets that make sense. What's worked is Lin knowing how to P&R.

Everything else is a chore.


Sent from my mobile device.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Remember, it was only a few weeks ago that some people wanted him gone(living in NY, prior to 2/14/12, that's all you heard)even when people knew he didn't have the right PG for that system, which is why I asked that question.

Now that he has that and it's looking like it's not the system, is he still a bad coach(which you've already answered)and do people still want him gone regardless or are they willing to give him another chance with possibly a full offseason?

I'm not gonna speak for Ruff.

I think (and I've said it here before) that D'Antoni would be a great offensive assistant coach or a college head coach. Or in Europe somewhere.

He's not getting props for their recent winning streak. The system is what it is and he kind of needs a perfect storm to be successful. Most good head coaches don't need that (Doc Rivers, Jerry Sloan, Pop, etc.). They can adjust.

Do I want him gone? Yes.

But how do you rationalize chopping a guy who is winning?

I'd prefer to have Mike Woodson as head coach.

[1Rose]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

People weren't questioning his system last year when they were throwing up like 200 points per game, before Melo of course.

I'm just sayin.

[Cavsfan4life]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

Is it a sure thing that JR is going to start for the Knicks? Im thinking they have him come off the bench to provide more bench scoring and play alongside Shumbert.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

People weren't questioning his system last year when they were throwing up like 200 points per game, before Melo of course.

I'm just sayin.

Yes they were.

Look, you benefit from the system by everyone on the team including scrubs having inflated stats.

But that cannot be sustained...especially in the playoffs.

Long time Knick fans want the Knicks to be a lockdown defensive team.

Is this system fun to watch? Yeah.

But he is not capable of teaching them the things they need to do to win. That is why Mike Woodson was brought in. That is why Tyson Chandler was signed. That is why Iman Shumpert was drafted.

[CMH]

Re: Official POST-LOCKOUT Player Movement Thread (Trades, FAs, etc)

People weren't questioning his system last year when they were throwing up like 200 points per game, before Melo of course.

I'm just sayin.

You have to visit the Knicks Team Thread. Most of us expressed adamantly that D'Antoni's system was flawed.

Not bad. Or that it didn't work. But flawed.

edit: And to piggyback on what BEBR mentioned above, the inflated stats argument is one of the things a number of guys (in the Knicks Team threads) brought up regarding David Lee and his free agent value.

I know I was one guy that didn't really understand why you'd get Stoudemire if you could have Lee. But, I ignored the offensive flow and it's inflation of Lee's statistics.