2012 NBA Draft Discussion

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  • da ThRONe
    Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
    • Mar 2009
    • 8528

    #1276
    Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

    Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
    Oh stop, you know damn well that wasn't the case.

    You used a ridiculous argument by nitpicking his weight(because he weighs 220 and will never grow into his frame according to you) to say that he couldn't even be a Tyson Chandler or a Marcus Camby type. But I'm not gonna open that can of worms back up.
    I question his offensives skills. Like I said you guys picked one thing and went wild.
    You looking at the Chair MAN!

    Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

    Comment

    • da ThRONe
      Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
      • Mar 2009
      • 8528

      #1277
      Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

      Originally posted by da ThRONe
      I don't think Davis game/body translate to the NBA game. I think his frame can't handle the necessary weight he'll need to gain to play in the post, and I don't believe his skillset will ever be refined enough for him to make a living as a wing player.
      Originally posted by da ThRONe
      Maybe I'm nitpicking, but there's a big difference in those two guys bodies. When I see Dwight his frame looks muscular while Anthony looks frail. He looks like Brittney Grinder with a short hair cut and a Kentucky jersey.
      Originally posted by da ThRONe
      I think people confuse skinny with weak. Camby, Garnett, Howard, etc may have been slender, but they weren't frail.
      Originally posted by da ThRONe
      That doesn't make it accurate. And even if it is that doesn't mean they have the same build. I agree I don't think his frame alone will be why he fails to meet expectations. However I believe it'll play a major role.
      Originally posted by da ThRONe
      Surprised so many people are so quick to ignore his frail frame. Outside of KG(who I think was stronger and more skilled than AD will ever be) what PF in the last dozen or so years has been an all-star as slender as Davis? Are better yet how many productive 4's in the league at all that slight of frame?
      Originally posted by da ThRONe
      Chris Bosh is bigger than Anthony Davis by a wide margin.

      Bosh


      Davis
      http://swishscout.com/wp-content/upl...Hl-250x300.jpg

      Not to mention Bosh is way more skilled than Davis.
      Originally posted by da ThRONe
      On the primeter this is true, but not in the paint. Which is where Davis skillset will require him to play.

      We have way more productive undersized powerful 4's in the league than productive frail, non-skilled, and athletic 4's right now.
      Originally posted by da ThRONe
      Everybody keeps bringing up weight. Weight gives you an idea of a guys build, but it's not the end all be all. Every human doesn't carry their weight the same. You can have two guys be the same weight and height and one be way more powerful and solid than the other.
      Originally posted by da ThRONe
      Ofcourse he can grow. I'm saying he won't be able to do so and keep the motor, quick leaping ability, and timing. He's not skilled like Bosh I don't think he'll get as skilled as Bosh or Garnett. His game will be predicated on athletism, unlike Bosh or Garnett. Not saying he won't have an impact in the league, but it won't be frachise changer. Just solid defender a la Chandler or Camby. If that's good enough so be it, but that's not who I want with the 1st overall pick.
      Originally posted by da ThRONe
      I have watch videos of both and IMO I saw a base for improvement I don't see in Davis. They weren't as affective, but didn't look awkward. Davis looks awkward and every other player I've seen that post play looked awkward and wasn't already affective never made major improvements not one. Maybe Davis will be the first, however I wouldn't bank on it.
      Originally posted by da ThRONe
      Ok I'll give you the fact that there's an age difference. I just grab so random pics.

      But even in the pics PPM posted Bosh has a more solid frame. And even he had to bulk up. The defference is like I said Bosh game is more about skill not athleticism. Skill is harder to offset than athletic ability.
      Just some of the things I posted in this thread about Davis. Never once does it says Davis won't be successful solely based on weight. I mention I think it will be a significant issue, but stated multipule times that wasn't the sole reason.
      You looking at the Chair MAN!

      Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

      Comment

      • Yeah...THAT Guy
        Once in a Lifetime Memory
        • Dec 2006
        • 17294

        #1278
        Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

        Rumor is NBA teams are getting the hots for Andrew Nicholson. Saying it's very unlikely he makes it out of the teens in the first round. Wow. That's gotta be good advertising for St. Bonaventure.

        Supposedly Jerry West is falling in love with Tyler Zeller too...
        Last edited by Yeah...THAT Guy; 06-25-2012, 03:56 PM.
        NFL: Bills
        NBA: Bucks
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        NCAA: Syracuse
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        PSN: ButMyT-GunDont

        Comment

        • da ThRONe
          Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
          • Mar 2009
          • 8528

          #1279
          Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

          Originally posted by da ThRONe
          I think he has the best timing on his blocks I've ever seen. And his motor is elite. To have a big defend out to the college 3point line is a thing of beauty. However I don't see him defending any of the PF's in the league with his current frame. If/when he adds weight I don't think he'll be nearly as explosive of a leaper to time his blocks as well.

          As far as offense his skills were decent for the college level. His jumper looks good out to about 15ft. Great hands and decent ball handling for a big. My problems are with things like post moves and his off the dribble attacks. They look awkward because he doesn't have those skills. Even guys who struggle when they look fluid those are the guys who usually become elite post players. I can't recall one big that I watched that started out looking uncomfortable in the post that completely turned it around.
          Originally posted by da ThRONe
          Once again it's not solely his frame it's his frame combined with his skillset. Blake Griffin isn't skill at all but the combo of size, strength, and athleticism allows him to still play at a high level. Bosh and Garnett (who I think were both stronger than Davis coming into the league) has size and unbelievable skill ith above average athleticism. Davis just has athleticism in my opinion is margin for success is slimer because of it. I think he'll be a great help side defender but a bad to below average post defender.
          Originally posted by da ThRONe
          This is where we disagree. I've given him credit for the skills I've seen him display.

          Once again I've never seen a player this frail looking. If you guys think he has the same body type of Garnett and Bosh than this discussion will never get pass that topic so no need to discuss it.

          I'm sticking to my evaluation. If people are expecting a franchise changer I think they're going to be highly dissappointed. I think he's at best the 7th or 8th best player in this draft.
          Originally posted by da ThRONe
          At this point of the discussion I thought it was understood I meant frail for a post player. Kevin Durant is a wing player. With the hand checking rules body mass and strength aren't nearly as important as it is in the post area. I've already made that point.
          Originally posted by da ThRONe
          Lol its to early to point out flaws in his game, but it's not too early to project him as a HOFer franchise changer. Yet everybody question my logic SMH.

          I'm not sure when Davis has shown good strength and base. When you read scouting reports that's probably listed as his biggest flaws. And it's what I see when I watch footage of Davis. Ofcourse he may fill out and maybe exceed expectations. It's one person opinion based on the times I've seen him play and the vids that I watch from him. I see a frame thats more frail (for a post player) that I can ever remember seeing. A guy who at times was pushed around by college level talent and bodies. It didn't matter in college because he had the athleticism and length to recover. I don't see that happening at the next level. I have serious doubts that he'll be able to add sufficient weight while maintaining enough of an athletic advantage to be an "franchise changer". Apparently thinking for yourself is flawed logic.
          Originally posted by da ThRONe
          This is all that i've said he'll be a good not great player and most certainly not a once in a generation player.
          Originally posted by da ThRONe
          I think Garnett is the exception not the rule. Also I think although he was slender he is/was a lot stronger than Davis.



          I'll agree the league has changed some. However I strongly disagree with the notion that most PF's aren't physical in the paint whether it's defensively/offensively/rebounding.



          Agree to disagree again. Not many players can tack on 15-30lbs without losing athleticism.



          Once again your opinion. 1st nobody can be wrong or right until it plays out.

          I don't think there's anything foolish when I've seen Daivs at the college level have problems "banging". Guys at the next level are much stronger, skilled, and/or athletic in the post. To me him struggling in this area is a much more natural conclusion than the opposite.
          Originally posted by da ThRONe
          1st not in any of those statements do I say he won't make it in the NBA. I'm saying he won't be a franchise/perennial all-star player.

          2nd just because people quote a few rare expection doesn't make it the rule. Plus I've already stated why I think those guys had/ are having great success while I think Davis will struggle.
          Here are more comments from this very thread. Not once did I call Davis a bust.
          You looking at the Chair MAN!

          Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

          Comment

          • da ThRONe
            Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
            • Mar 2009
            • 8528

            #1280
            Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

            Originally posted by wwharton
            You were calling him a bust. Honestly, if Ibaka was coming out today (and to make the point very clear, lets say there is no Davis in the draft) and we had a crystal ball to know how he'd perform at this stage in his NBA career, he'd be a unanimous #1 pick too. So you now saying he'd be like Ibaka contradicts your original objection to him going #1.
            I don't think Ibaka goes number 1 in this draft. Not sure about any contradiction. Pretty sure I've been consistent with all my comments whether you agree or not is a different issue.
            You looking at the Chair MAN!

            Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

            Comment

            • Chrisksaint
              $$$
              • Apr 2010
              • 19127

              #1281
              Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

              Originally posted by Yeah...THAT Guy
              Rumor is NBA teams are getting the hots for Andrew Nicholson. Saying it's very unlikely he makes it out of the teens in the first round. Wow. That's gotta be good advertising for St. Bonaventure.
              Hearing some comparisons to David West and I can see that.
              Saints, LSU, Seminoles, Pelicans, Marlins, Lightning

              Comment

              • Sinner
                All Star
                • Jun 2003
                • 5483

                #1282
                Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                I'm definitely looking forward to this draft more so than any other in recent years. Mainly because I want to see what moves are made, where the Tar Heels go and what my Celtics going to do with their 2 first round picks. I have seen it talked about that Harrisons' game is better suited for the NBA so really hope he proves a lot of people wrong and does good in the NBA. Saw that he showed some good athleticism having the highest vertical and the fastest time in some relay. Going to be interesting to see what he Cats do also (their name has gotten worse IMO) think they should pick T. Robinson cause they need some toughness, well along with a lot of other things.
                -= Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.=- Edward Murphy

                Comment

                • bigeastbumrush
                  My Momma's Son
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 19245

                  #1283
                  Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                  Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress
                  Green Room Invites: Davis, Robinson, Beal, Kidd Gilchrist, Barnes, Lillard, Waiters, Lamb, Drummond, Rivers, Henson, Zeller, Leonard.
                  Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress
                  Terrence Ross gets 14th Green Room invite w/Davis, T-Rob, Beal, MKG, Barnes, Lillard, Waiters, Rivers, Drummond, Lamb, Henson Zeller Leonard
                  Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress
                  Still waiting on Green Room Invites/Not Invited: Marshall, Sullinger, Ross, Harkless, Moultrie, Perry Jones, Terrence Jones, everyone else.
                  Green Room Invites
                  Last edited by bigeastbumrush; 06-25-2012, 05:31 PM.

                  Comment

                  • wwharton
                    *ll St*r
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 26949

                    #1284
                    Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                    Originally posted by da ThRONe
                    I don't think Ibaka goes number 1 in this draft. Not sure about any contradiction. Pretty sure I've been consistent with all my comments whether you agree or not is a different issue.
                    That's the only contradiction I'm suggesting (not saying you're all over the place). I think you're off on Davis so I guess it's no surprise you're off on this too, but I think you're just being stubborn now.

                    If we knew what Ibaka would be 2 years in and didn't know anything about anyone else in this draft's 2 years in nba potential, you don't think Ibaka would go #1? Any particular reason bc I get the feeling you're just saying that to maintain your Davis argument.

                    Comment

                    • BleacherBum2310
                      All Star
                      • Aug 2010
                      • 7107

                      #1285
                      Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                      Originally posted by Yeah...THAT Guy
                      Rumor is NBA teams are getting the hots for Andrew Nicholson. Saying it's very unlikely he makes it out of the teens in the first round. Wow. That's gotta be good advertising for St. Bonaventure.
                      Crap. Best case scenario for Boston is Royce White and Andrew Nicholson, they would be perfect fits.
                      Wolverines Packers Cubs Celtics

                      Comment

                      • redsrule
                        All Star
                        • Apr 2010
                        • 9396

                        #1286
                        Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                        Originally posted by bigeastbumrush
                        Green Room Invites
                        Quite surprised Terrence Jones didn't get an invite.
                        Cincinnati Reds University of Kentucky Cincinnati Bengals
                        @GoReds1994

                        Comment

                        • Yeah...THAT Guy
                          Once in a Lifetime Memory
                          • Dec 2006
                          • 17294

                          #1287
                          Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                          Originally posted by redsrule
                          Quite surprised Terrence Jones didn't get an invite.
                          Well I assume he still could. Don't they usually invite a couple more guys closer to the actual date?

                          And anyways, Jones hasn't been a lock for the lottery, so it's not that big a surprise.
                          NFL: Bills
                          NBA: Bucks
                          MLB: Cubs
                          NCAA: Syracuse
                          Soccer: USMNT/DC United

                          PSN: ButMyT-GunDont

                          Comment

                          • ehh
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Mar 2003
                            • 28962

                            #1288
                            Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                            I'm surprised that Leonard is above Zeller in so many mocks now. I seem to be the only person on the planet that likes Zeller. I wouldn't take Leonard over him in a million years.
                            "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                            "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

                            Comment

                            • thaima1shu
                              Robot
                              • Feb 2004
                              • 5598

                              #1289
                              Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                              Terrence Ross! Nice to see him get that green room invite!

                              Comment

                              • Yeah...THAT Guy
                                Once in a Lifetime Memory
                                • Dec 2006
                                • 17294

                                #1290
                                Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                                Originally posted by ehh
                                I'm surprised that Leonard is above Zeller in so many mocks now. I seem to be the only person on the planet that likes Zeller. I wouldn't take Leonard over him in a million years.
                                Completely agree with you. Leonard has a lot of potential but I don't think he'll reach his ceiling.

                                I think Zeller will just be a steady presence for a team. I think he can excel in a role just like Hansbrough.
                                NFL: Bills
                                NBA: Bucks
                                MLB: Cubs
                                NCAA: Syracuse
                                Soccer: USMNT/DC United

                                PSN: ButMyT-GunDont

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