2012 NBA Draft Discussion

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  • da ThRONe
    Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
    • Mar 2009
    • 8528

    #301
    Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

    Originally posted by BlueNGold
    Dude, you're posting a picture of Bosh when he was a good 4-5 years into his career as a Raptor (AND after the specific off-season he decided to bulk up to improve his game) and comparing it to a 19 year old coming out of college.

    Come on now.
    Ok I'll give you the fact that there's an age difference. I just grab so random pics.

    But even in the pics PPM posted Bosh has a more solid frame. And even he had to bulk up. The defference is like I said Bosh game is more about skill not athleticism. Skill is harder to offset than athletic ability.
    You looking at the Chair MAN!

    Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

    Comment

    • wwharton
      *ll St*r
      • Aug 2002
      • 26949

      #302
      Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

      Originally posted by da ThRONe
      On the primeter this is true, but not in the paint. Which is where Davis skillset will require him to play.

      We have way more productive undersized powerful 4's in the league than productive frail, non-skilled, and athletic 4's right now.
      Seems like you're grabbing at straws to pile onto the frail frame argument. Bosh was more of an offensive focus at Wake. Davis didn't have to be and still made his presence felt. When they did have to go to him he showed he has skills. His size is about what I'd expect of a 19 year old. Guys that aren't trying to lose baby fat coming into the league at that age have been about the same, not including LBJ and Amare.

      It really does seem like you're just looking for reasons to say he'll fail. I'm not sure what you're looking for in a #1 pick but Lebron, Shaq, Rose, etc. don't come out every year. If we look back to Chandler's draft class I'd say he's had a career worthy of being the #1 pick that year. I expect Davis to have a better career (individually... can't predict team accomplishments).

      Comment

      • Chrisksaint
        $$$
        • Apr 2010
        • 19127

        #303
        Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

        Originally posted by SidVish
        He played point guard in high school before the growth spurt.
        Ahh k, but even more reason to not judge his offensive game so much. Seems to have mad a whole lot of progress.
        Saints, LSU, Seminoles, Pelicans, Marlins, Lightning

        Comment

        • da ThRONe
          Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
          • Mar 2009
          • 8528

          #304
          Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

          Originally posted by wwharton
          Seems like you're grabbing at straws to pile onto the frail frame argument. Bosh was more of an offensive focus at Wake. Davis didn't have to be and still made his presence felt. When they did have to go to him he showed he has skills. His size is about what I'd expect of a 19 year old. Guys that aren't trying to lose baby fat coming into the league at that age have been about the same, not including LBJ and Amare.

          It really does seem like you're just looking for reasons to say he'll fail. I'm not sure what you're looking for in a #1 pick but Lebron, Shaq, Rose, etc. don't come out every year. If we look back to Chandler's draft class I'd say he's had a career worthy of being the #1 pick that year. I expect Davis to have a better career (individually... can't predict team accomplishments).
          Grabing at straws? There are way more Millsap, Boozer, Blair types that are undersized but make up for it with their skill and wide bodies. Then guys like Davis.
          You looking at the Chair MAN!

          Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

          Comment

          • wwharton
            *ll St*r
            • Aug 2002
            • 26949

            #305
            Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

            Originally posted by da ThRONe
            Grabing at straws? There are way more Millsap, Boozer, Blair types that are undersized but make up for it with their skill and wide bodies. Then guys like Davis.
            No idea how any of those guys compare at all. Davis isn't undersized and doesn't have a wide body so what's your point? Are you arguing that if he were undersized with a wide body he'd be more successful? Or are you trying to say that those guys are more skilled (which may be true but still ignores that he's a year removed from high school... and, again, isn't undersized which would create the need for a higher "skill" level).

            Comment

            • redsrule
              All Star
              • Apr 2010
              • 9396

              #306
              Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

              Are you trying to say he doesn't have skill?
              Please.
              Cincinnati Reds University of Kentucky Cincinnati Bengals
              @GoReds1994

              Comment

              • da ThRONe
                Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
                • Mar 2009
                • 8528

                #307
                Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                Originally posted by wwharton
                No idea how any of those guys compare at all. Davis isn't undersized and doesn't have a wide body so what's your point? Are you arguing that if he were undersized with a wide body he'd be more successful? Or are you trying to say that those guys are more skilled (which may be true but still ignores that he's a year removed from high school... and, again, isn't undersized which would create the need for a higher "skill" level).
                Everybody is saying that his frame won't be an issue. My point is how many guys that's not overly skilled thats just tall and athletic are making in impact in the league at the 4 spot. I rather have Sullinger a skilled big body over a frail athletic big. This was the complete opposite for me a few years ago. I would fall for the tall athletic bigs in favor of the less athletic skilled guy in it usually come back to bite me.

                Hell even this offseason I was compaigning for my Hornets to sign DeAndre Jordan. Glad I wasn't in charge on that one.
                You looking at the Chair MAN!

                Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

                Comment

                • da ThRONe
                  Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
                  • Mar 2009
                  • 8528

                  #308
                  Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                  Originally posted by redsrule
                  Are you trying to say he doesn't have skill?
                  Please.
                  I think he has the best timing on his blocks I've ever seen. And his motor is elite. To have a big defend out to the college 3point line is a thing of beauty. However I don't see him defending any of the PF's in the league with his current frame. If/when he adds weight I don't think he'll be nearly as explosive of a leaper to time his blocks as well.

                  As far as offense his skills were decent for the college level. His jumper looks good out to about 15ft. Great hands and decent ball handling for a big. My problems are with things like post moves and his off the dribble attacks. They look awkward because he doesn't have those skills. Even guys who struggle when they look fluid those are the guys who usually become elite post players. I can't recall one big that I watched that started out looking uncomfortable in the post that completely turned it around.
                  You looking at the Chair MAN!

                  Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

                  Comment

                  • ProfessaPackMan
                    Bamma
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 63852

                    #309
                    Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                    Like I said, the whole body frame issue is overrated in Today's NBA and if this was 12-13 years ago, you'd have a point. But it's already been proven that you don't need to be 240-250lbs to make play or hang in today's NBA, especially as a big.

                    People said Kendrick Perkins' Defense would be an issue in OKC because he lost 37lbs and yet his defense is still fine. Tyson Chandler put on 11 pounds in the last 10 years and he's been fine in the NBA. Joakim Noah is another example, along with the KG's and the Bosh's and the Camby's of the world.

                    So yeah, you're grasping at straws with the whole body frame issue.
                    #RespectTheCulture

                    Comment

                    • da ThRONe
                      Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
                      • Mar 2009
                      • 8528

                      #310
                      Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                      Once again it's not solely his frame it's his frame combined with his skillset. Blake Griffin isn't skill at all but the combo of size, strength, and athleticism allows him to still play at a high level. Bosh and Garnett (who I think were both stronger than Davis coming into the league) has size and unbelievable skill ith above average athleticism. Davis just has athleticism in my opinion is margin for success is slimer because of it. I think he'll be a great help side defender but a bad to below average post defender.
                      You looking at the Chair MAN!

                      Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

                      Comment

                      • wwharton
                        *ll St*r
                        • Aug 2002
                        • 26949

                        #311
                        Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                        Originally posted by da ThRONe
                        Everybody is saying that his frame won't be an issue. My point is how many guys that's not overly skilled thats just tall and athletic are making in impact in the league at the 4 spot. I rather have Sullinger a skilled big body over a frail athletic big. This was the complete opposite for me a few years ago. I would fall for the tall athletic bigs in favor of the less athletic skilled guy in it usually come back to bite me.

                        Hell even this offseason I was compaigning for my Hornets to sign DeAndre Jordan. Glad I wasn't in charge on that one.
                        Originally posted by da ThRONe
                        Once again it's not solely his frame it's his frame combined with his skillset. Blake Griffin isn't skill at all but the combo of size, strength, and athleticism allows him to still play at a high level. Bosh and Garnett (who I think were both stronger than Davis coming into the league) has size and unbelievable skill ith above average athleticism. Davis just has athleticism in my opinion is margin for success is slimer because of it. I think he'll be a great help side defender but a bad to below average post defender.
                        The flaw in your argument is painting the picture that he's just an incredible athlete who's thrown on the court bc of that and his height. In short, he has more skill than you're giving him credit for, AND the fact that he was able to play a supporting roll (which is probably part of why you're saying it) bodes even better for his chances in the NBA.

                        If your argument is that next year he won't be as dominant as LBJ, Griffin, etc in their first year then sure... I'm sure everyone would be onboard with that. I think the collective scratching of the head is with the idea that he will not only remain the same size/weight but won't be able to develop his game. I have no idea where either of those thoughts come from.

                        I don't get how you figure Bosh and Garnett were stronger coming into the NBA either. What's that based on? Considering Garnett came out of HS (at a time when those games weren't on tv) I'd say that's even more of a reach to throw out there. Garnett was the same size as this kid coming into the league, with limited footage on how "strong" he was. And considering Davis' recent history as a guard, I don't know why we shouldn't expect his midrange shot and handle to improve.

                        Comment

                        • cubsball899
                          MVP
                          • Jan 2010
                          • 1744

                          #312
                          Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                          we'll see what happens with Davis, can't say either way yet for sure. what da throne brought up about Sullinger i think is interesting. i'm high on Sullinger, because it seems like his body type/skill set can excell in the NBA. Z-bo, Booze, Millsap etc. i think the NBA game will be more suited to Sully than the college game because there will be more room for him to work 1 on 1. i also think with his footwork and touch, he can excel in the pick n roll/pick n pop

                          Comment

                          • ex carrabba fan
                            I'll thank him for you
                            • Oct 2004
                            • 32744

                            #313
                            Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                            IDK, Z-Bo, Booz and Millsap all have differing skillsets IMO

                            I'm not that high on Sullinger to become a player in any of those guys' caliber, but I do think he can be a decent starter.

                            I feel like Sullinger doesn't have any motor and limited athleticism... Not a great defender.. I feel like he's gonna be a poorman's Boozer.

                            Comment

                            • cubsball899
                              MVP
                              • Jan 2010
                              • 1744

                              #314
                              Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                              Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
                              IDK, Z-Bo, Booz and Millsap all have differing skillsets IMO

                              I'm not that high on Sullinger to become a player in any of those guys' caliber, but I do think he can be a decent starter.

                              I feel like Sullinger doesn't have any motor and limited athleticism... Not a great defender.. I feel like he's gonna be a poorman's Boozer.
                              well i feel like they're all good midrange shooters, all have big bodies, varying degrees of skill in the post which is what i think seperates them. makes z-bo stand out from the others, and i think Sully can go to work in the post. plus, how perfect of a name for an athlete is Jared Sullinger?

                              Comment

                              • da ThRONe
                                Fire LesS Miles ASAP!
                                • Mar 2009
                                • 8528

                                #315
                                Re: 2012 NBA Draft Discussion

                                Originally posted by wwharton
                                The flaw in your argument is painting the picture that he's just an incredible athlete who's thrown on the court bc of that and his height. In short, he has more skill than you're giving him credit for, AND the fact that he was able to play a supporting roll (which is probably part of why you're saying it) bodes even better for his chances in the NBA.

                                If your argument is that next year he won't be as dominant as LBJ, Griffin, etc in their first year then sure... I'm sure everyone would be onboard with that. I think the collective scratching of the head is with the idea that he will not only remain the same size/weight but won't be able to develop his game. I have no idea where either of those thoughts come from.

                                I don't get how you figure Bosh and Garnett were stronger coming into the NBA either. What's that based on? Considering Garnett came out of HS (at a time when those games weren't on tv) I'd say that's even more of a reach to throw out there. Garnett was the same size as this kid coming into the league, with limited footage on how "strong" he was. And considering Davis' recent history as a guard, I don't know why we shouldn't expect his midrange shot and handle to improve.
                                This is where we disagree. I've given him credit for the skills I've seen him display.

                                Once again I've never seen a player this frail looking. If you guys think he has the same body type of Garnett and Bosh than this discussion will never get pass that topic so no need to discuss it.

                                I'm sticking to my evaluation. If people are expecting a franchise changer I think they're going to be highly dissappointed. I think he's at best the 7th or 8th best player in this draft.
                                Last edited by da ThRONe; 04-14-2012, 02:46 PM.
                                You looking at the Chair MAN!

                                Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either.

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