NBA 2011-2012 MVP Thread

[st0rmb11]

Re: NBA 2011-2012 MVP Thread

I pretty much disagree with everything you said. When has Dwight ever been an atrocious on ball defender...that's honestly the first I've heard of that. He might not be known for that, but I wouldn't label him atrocious. And he is so much more dominant than any help defender, it's not even close (see the Miami games this season and how he single handedly shut the lane down against LBJ/D-Wade). His team is top 5 in defensive shooting %, points given up, TO's forced, etc. You think that is because of Turkoglu?, J-Rich?, Redick?

And I can't see Love or Paul being ahead of Dwight at all honestly. That is just Center-bias to me. Dwight is far more valuable to his team than those guys are.

Maybe atrocious was too strong. But, he's not good.

Still, I stand by what I said - he's not over any of the guys I said.

I don't know how you can look at them and their teams, and say that Howard is more valuable to his team than Love is to his. Love is the only consistent scorer they have in Minny, the only consistent rebounder they have in Minny, and, with Rubio out, the only player worth half a damn in Minny (sorry, Beasley).

Name your 10 cause I can only think of 5


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In no particular order

Pau Gasol
Andrew Bynum
Zach Randolph
Marc Gasol
Marcin Gortat
Tim Duncan
Andrew Bogut
Kevin Garnett
Lamarcus Aldridge
Nene
David Lee
Kevin Love
Luis Scola
Al Jefferson
Paul Millsap
Amare Stoudemire

so, that's actually 15. I guess you could eliminate Millsap, Stoudemire, & Lee, if you don't consider them to play like big men. But, everyone is more capable of scoring in a number of ways than Dwight, and are better passers than Dwight.

[Jukeman]

I guess the Magic arent 32-18?

Must be a typo.

LeBron

Durant

Howard





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[Altimus]

Fine, if you want to throw his name in there so be it but you have the same chance of winning MVP as he does.

Sent from my HTC EVO

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: NBA 2011-2012 MVP Thread

It's not as if Howard and his measly 21 ppg are on a squad full of tomato cans. The Magic aren't title contenders by any stretch but they aren't potential bottom dwellers either. There are 5 guys besides Howard on that team scoring in double figures every night. The man doesn't impress me much. With all his "dedication and commitment" he should be scoring in the higher 20's on average nights. Shaq has it right (yeah...Shaq) 28 and 15 should be Howard's stat-line on the regular with all the hype and commotion he's been causing. You'd think this guy was a potential all time top 5 center with how things have gone down this year.

[Rocky]

Re: NBA 2011-2012 MVP Thread

Maybe atrocious was too strong. But, he's not good.

Still, I stand by what I said - he's not over any of the guys I said.

I don't know how you can look at them and their teams, and say that Howard is more valuable to his team than Love is to his. Love is the only consistent scorer they have in Minny, the only consistent rebounder they have in Minny, and, with Rubio out, the only player worth half a damn in Minny (sorry, Beasley).




In no particular order

Pau Gasol
Andrew Bynum
Zach Randolph
Marc Gasol
Marcin Gortat
Tim Duncan
Andrew Bogut
Kevin Garnett
Lamarcus Aldridge
Nene
David Lee
Kevin Love
Luis Scola
Al Jefferson
Paul Millsap
Amare Stoudemire

so, that's actually 15. I guess you could eliminate Millsap, Stoudemire, & Lee, if you don't consider them to play like big men. But, everyone is more capable of scoring in a number of ways than Dwight, and are better passers than Dwight.

There isn't a team so dependent on one player's skills as the Magic are on Howard both offensively and defensively. There is not one player who can consistently create his own shot on that team (except maybe now Anderson and he is still so dependent on Howard drawing looks). And frankly the Magic are better than the T'Wolves so I don't see how it's an argument.

And c'mon...Nene and Scola offensively over Howard? They might be skilled, but they surely aren't as dominant or effective. Would you really have Al Jefferson or Bogut on the offensive end over Howard? No because Howard's athleticism, power, and quickness have to account for something. And there is no one on that list that has that blend today.

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: NBA 2011-2012 MVP Thread

No because Howard's athleticism, power, and quickness have to account for something. And there is no one on that list that has that blend today.

At present their only accounting for 21 ppg. That may count for something but for Howard its not nearly enough.

[st0rmb11]

Re: NBA 2011-2012 MVP Thread

And c'mon...Nene and Scola offensively over Howard? They might be skilled, but they surely aren't as dominant or effective. Would you really have Al Jefferson or Bogut on the offensive end over Howard? No because Howard's athleticism, power, and quickness have to account for something. And there is no one on that list that has that blend today.

I never said there was anyone more athletic or powerful. I said I could name several big men more SKILLED than Howard.

No one can look me in the eyes and tell me that Howard has more offensive skills than Scola, Jefferson, Nene, or Bogut. They can score in far more ways than he can, and as I mentioned earlier, they can pass. He turns the ball over out of double teams more than you want a "superstar" to.

[702]

This idea that Howard is a bad offensive player is absurd. He may not be the most aesthetically pleasing but he's 3rd in the NBA in ppg for big men behind only Love and LA on a much better FG% (58 against 45 and 51). He obviously has holes in his game but just because he doesn't use a huge array of post moves doesn't mean he's bad offensively. He gets the job done.

The turnovers arent the problem they seem to be. His 3.2 pg aren't too much worse than those two (Love 2.5 LA 2.0). The free throw shooting is the only big issue, which is admittedly a huge issue.

Howard carries a gigantic responsibility on both ends of the floor. The fact he has to play savior on defense can't be ignored when judging his offensive game. He shoots that percentage while playing 38 minutes a game while being expected to anchor a defense featuring terrible defenders. Thats a lot of energy expended. If he could conserve energy on defense every night he'd be better offensively. He would be even more physically dominating if that is even possible.

The biggest thing overlooked is the fact its been shown you can build a successful offense with him as the focal point. How could he be a bad offensive player if that's true. I'm not saying he's the best offensive big man in the league but he's absolutely in the conversation. His only contemporaries are Love, Aldridge, and Dirk. And to pick between the four of them is to pick on preference/style/fit more than "ability".


Edited due to posting on accident, needed to add more.

[PrettyT11]

Re: NBA 2011-2012 MVP Thread

No one can look me in the eyes and tell me that Howard has more offensive skills than Scola, Jefferson, Nene, or Bogut. They can score in far more ways than he can, and as I mentioned earlier, they can pass. He turns the ball over out of double teams more than you want a "superstar" to.

You can't take Bogut's name off that list fast enough. I'm sorry but Bogut is not better or more skilled offensively than Dwight. In fact Bogut really hasn't been an offensive threat at all the past two years. He's a big man post player that shoots under 50 percent and never commands a double team. Not to mention Bogut is also a bad free throw shooter so there is no advantage there. I will take Howard over Bogut offensively every day of the week no matter the team or system without a second thought about it.

[BringTheHeat]

Re: NBA 2011-2012 MVP Thread

Yeah it's going to be LBJ or Durant either way. What steams my beans is that LeBron gets in a funk and so all the sudden we forget the fact that he's having one of the best seasons of all time? Durant killed him Sunday yes but he wasn't all there, anyone could tell that. He needs to take time off after this Dallas game whether he likes it or not and get back on track. I'm a big stats guy and the stats don't lie, LeBron is the best player this year, therefore deserves the MVP.

[Colts18]

Re: NBA 2011-2012 MVP Thread

I am with the side of the group that doesn't care how someone gets their buckets. If they can average 21 off of drop steps and oops, so what. That is fine. A point is a point. When he ages and is no longer able to do those things is when it will matter. But now when he gets into beast mode nobody can do anything with him. But his issue is he doesn't know how to go into beast mode enough. Too nice of a dude.

Scola is so skilled. He has my respect after the World Championships.

[23]

Re: NBA 2011-2012 MVP Thread

You don't have to be mean to go into beast

The extra aggressive demeanor is either there or not... Hakeem Olajuwon comes to mind

Never did all this crappy chest pounding and screaming and hollering like a fool, but he went right out and handled you like you were caught up in between some monkey bars

Tim Duncan is another. He was hated more becuase he killed you and never showed an emotion while doing it

[BringTheHeat]

Re: NBA 2011-2012 MVP Thread

You don't have to be mean to go into beast

The extra aggressive demeanor is either there or not... Hakeem Olajuwon comes to mind

Never did all this crappy chest pounding and screaming and hollering like a fool, but he went right out and handled you like you were caught up in between some monkey bars

Tim Duncan is another. He was hated more becuase he killed you and never showed an emotion while doing it

Kevin McHale as well. I don't think the personality has anything to do with the MVP, Derrick Rose is very humble and doesn't do all that nonsense and he won MVP.

[Nathan_OS]

Kevin McHale as well. I don't think the personality has anything to do with the MVP, Derrick Rose is very humble and doesn't do all that nonsense and he won MVP.

Yea you could definitely say Derrick Rose.

He isn't hated though, at least not yet.

[Bumi]

Re: NBA 2011-2012 MVP Thread

Yeah it's going to be LBJ or Durant either way. What steams my beans is that LeBron gets in a funk and so all the sudden we forget the fact that he's having one of the best seasons of all time? Durant killed him Sunday yes but he wasn't all there, anyone could tell that. He needs to take time off after this Dallas game whether he likes it or not and get back on track. I'm a big stats guy and the stats don't lie, LeBron is the best player this year, therefore deserves the MVP.

LeBron isn't having one of the "greatest seasons of all time" anymore. Using that as a platform to justify him winning the MVP is disingenuous, wouldn't you say? In fact, his line has fallen below some of those he posted in Cleveland. He was riding a hot streak, as great players do, but now he's cooling back down to his typical averages.

Earlier in the season he was feasting on fast break points, but now that Miami isn't forcing as many turnovers or creating as many fast break opportunities those points have dried up and he's being forced to execute in the half court. And with his inability to consistently beat defenders off the dribble in said sets, that sometimes proves a struggle. Especially if his jumper isn't falling.

As for whose more deserving of the MVP? Fan hood aside, you have to go with Durant. When you think about the fact that OKC has gone from the 7th seed overall and 4th seed in the west to 2nd overall(still in contention for first) and 1st in the west, while Miami has remained stagnant in their league and conference positioning, you have to lean in Durant's favor. Moreover, Durant waxed LeBron in the head to head match up, and has proven the leagues best clutch player where LeBron continues to struggle.

I don't think there's enough separation in their stat lines to justify giving LeBron the award over Durant considering the above.

LeBron: 27/8/7/53fg%/60.6ts%

Durant: 28/8/3/50fg%/61ts%

If OKC wins at Miami on the 4th than Durant has is it won, I think.