Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

**yungmac1** · 02-11-2004, 01:26 AM

Re: Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

I Have to comment on this because it is right up my alley.

Okay High school coach black. This guy was hard nose, I mean 4 hour practices, cross-counrty, Track , AAU. He was more like a drill sargent than a coach and the season was boot-camp.
This was a 5-4 Black coach who not only had his players respect, but every student and gang memeber. This was a Detroit Public school too.

Then I had a Black coach when I went to junior college who was the total opposite really laid back joking all the time practice was a joke. I could run 2 miles workout and shoot for and hour and a half then practice then say after and shoot for an hour and go home not tired. I did not respect him and neither did the rest of the team black, white, and Arab.

To wrap this up I had a white coach my last two years of college and he was supposed to be the winningest coach in michigan, the practices where okay, better than the last coach, but nowhere near the first coach. He tried to be like a father figure to the black athletes he felt had a rough life with out a dad, but the rest of the african american athlete's were treated like crap, so he lost alot of respect from all and we did play like we wanted to be there.

It doesn't matter what color a coach is If he or she does not set standards for the coach player relationship by keeping that fine line of "Master teacher" - "Players Coach"

I don't agree with Stephen A. Smith I think the race card is a scap-goat for the firing of black coaches. I think that todays players are a bunch of ******* with the expecption of a few Garnett, Duncan, and hell even the rookies Lebron and melo are showing more class than a seasoned vet.

**DueceDiggla** · 02-11-2004, 01:41 AM

Re: Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
bigeastbumrush said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:
What was the case with Byron Scott?

<hr /></blockquote>

Jason Kidd is a malcontent and a coach-killer. He didn't like Scott and it showed in his effort prior to Scott being fired.

Kidd loved Eddie Jordan. If it wasn't for Kidd's lobbying, Eddie would've left NJ before this past offseason in the year before.

The Nets aren't playing hard now because this new coach is white. They're playing hard because Kidd couldn't stand Byron Scott and now that he's gone he feels at ease (for the moment).

But again, this is just one more "exception", right?

<hr /></blockquote>

Bigeast, you are right about a few things you said about the Nets. Obviously Kidd had a say on Scott's firing, but he wasn't that great of a coach anyway. X's and O's wise, he had no clue in what he was doing, and he did not have the people skills needed to be a successful head coach. Deke said he was ignored for the last 3 months or so of last season by Scott. Zoran Planinic, the Nets first round pick said the samething about Scott. Scott didn't say one word to Zoran his last month as the Nets coach, and none of the players knew why.

Scott would chose favorites like Kidd, Luscious and RJ, but go talk negatively to the media about other players. He did it when Steph and Stephen Jackson were on the team, he did it when Kenyon was a rookie, and he did it this year with Zoran. Lawrence Frank is supposed to be a terrific X's and O's type of coach and has a very good relationship with the players on the team. I seriously doubt Kidd played half *** in order to get Scott fired. He could've just demanded it and Thorn would have done it. I'm not just saying this to stick up for Kidd or the Nets organization, but when you watch every game and see there are alot of problems due to the coach, its not hard to realize who's fault it is. The fans have been asking for Scott to be fired for a long time now (way before last years finals), so it wasn't a surprise to us. It's kind of like the KVH to Philly situation. When he went to Philly, all of the Sixer fans were excited due to the numbers he put up and his 3pt%, but the Net fans knew that no matter what kind of numbers he had, it would be better off if he left.

The only reason why they didn't fire Scott last year and replace him with Jordan was because Eddie Jordan and Rod Thorn had a falling out when Jordan first got here and they were never too friendly after that. Thorn knew that he wouldn't make Jordan the head coach either way, so he was kind of stuck with Scott.

**DueceDiggla** · 02-11-2004, 01:41 AM

Re: Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
bigeastbumrush said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:
What was the case with Byron Scott?

<hr /></blockquote>

Jason Kidd is a malcontent and a coach-killer. He didn't like Scott and it showed in his effort prior to Scott being fired.

Kidd loved Eddie Jordan. If it wasn't for Kidd's lobbying, Eddie would've left NJ before this past offseason in the year before.

The Nets aren't playing hard now because this new coach is white. They're playing hard because Kidd couldn't stand Byron Scott and now that he's gone he feels at ease (for the moment).

But again, this is just one more "exception", right?

<hr /></blockquote>

Bigeast, you are right about a few things you said about the Nets. Obviously Kidd had a say on Scott's firing, but he wasn't that great of a coach anyway. X's and O's wise, he had no clue in what he was doing, and he did not have the people skills needed to be a successful head coach. Deke said he was ignored for the last 3 months or so of last season by Scott. Zoran Planinic, the Nets first round pick said the samething about Scott. Scott didn't say one word to Zoran his last month as the Nets coach, and none of the players knew why.

Scott would chose favorites like Kidd, Luscious and RJ, but go talk negatively to the media about other players. He did it when Steph and Stephen Jackson were on the team, he did it when Kenyon was a rookie, and he did it this year with Zoran. Lawrence Frank is supposed to be a terrific X's and O's type of coach and has a very good relationship with the players on the team. I seriously doubt Kidd played half *** in order to get Scott fired. He could've just demanded it and Thorn would have done it. I'm not just saying this to stick up for Kidd or the Nets organization, but when you watch every game and see there are alot of problems due to the coach, its not hard to realize who's fault it is. The fans have been asking for Scott to be fired for a long time now (way before last years finals), so it wasn't a surprise to us. It's kind of like the KVH to Philly situation. When he went to Philly, all of the Sixer fans were excited due to the numbers he put up and his 3pt%, but the Net fans knew that no matter what kind of numbers he had, it would be better off if he left.

The only reason why they didn't fire Scott last year and replace him with Jordan was because Eddie Jordan and Rod Thorn had a falling out when Jordan first got here and they were never too friendly after that. Thorn knew that he wouldn't make Jordan the head coach either way, so he was kind of stuck with Scott.

**DueceDiggla** · 02-11-2004, 01:41 AM

Re: Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
bigeastbumrush said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:
What was the case with Byron Scott?

<hr /></blockquote>

Jason Kidd is a malcontent and a coach-killer. He didn't like Scott and it showed in his effort prior to Scott being fired.

Kidd loved Eddie Jordan. If it wasn't for Kidd's lobbying, Eddie would've left NJ before this past offseason in the year before.

The Nets aren't playing hard now because this new coach is white. They're playing hard because Kidd couldn't stand Byron Scott and now that he's gone he feels at ease (for the moment).

But again, this is just one more "exception", right?

<hr /></blockquote>

Bigeast, you are right about a few things you said about the Nets. Obviously Kidd had a say on Scott's firing, but he wasn't that great of a coach anyway. X's and O's wise, he had no clue in what he was doing, and he did not have the people skills needed to be a successful head coach. Deke said he was ignored for the last 3 months or so of last season by Scott. Zoran Planinic, the Nets first round pick said the samething about Scott. Scott didn't say one word to Zoran his last month as the Nets coach, and none of the players knew why.

Scott would chose favorites like Kidd, Luscious and RJ, but go talk negatively to the media about other players. He did it when Steph and Stephen Jackson were on the team, he did it when Kenyon was a rookie, and he did it this year with Zoran. Lawrence Frank is supposed to be a terrific X's and O's type of coach and has a very good relationship with the players on the team. I seriously doubt Kidd played half *** in order to get Scott fired. He could've just demanded it and Thorn would have done it. I'm not just saying this to stick up for Kidd or the Nets organization, but when you watch every game and see there are alot of problems due to the coach, its not hard to realize who's fault it is. The fans have been asking for Scott to be fired for a long time now (way before last years finals), so it wasn't a surprise to us. It's kind of like the KVH to Philly situation. When he went to Philly, all of the Sixer fans were excited due to the numbers he put up and his 3pt%, but the Net fans knew that no matter what kind of numbers he had, it would be better off if he left.

The only reason why they didn't fire Scott last year and replace him with Jordan was because Eddie Jordan and Rod Thorn had a falling out when Jordan first got here and they were never too friendly after that. Thorn knew that he wouldn't make Jordan the head coach either way, so he was kind of stuck with Scott.

**TheKing** · 02-11-2004, 01:44 AM

Re: Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
timid said:
Umm, I pretty much agree with Steven A.

<hr /></blockquote>yup he made some great points on PTI earlier today

**TheKing** · 02-11-2004, 01:44 AM

Re: Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
timid said:
Umm, I pretty much agree with Steven A.

<hr /></blockquote>yup he made some great points on PTI earlier today

**TheKing** · 02-11-2004, 01:44 AM

Re: Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
timid said:
Umm, I pretty much agree with Steven A.

<hr /></blockquote>yup he made some great points on PTI earlier today

**Rickster101** · 02-11-2004, 04:25 AM

Re: Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
TheKing said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
timid said:
Umm, I pretty much agree with Steven A.

<hr /></blockquote>yup he made some great points on PTI earlier today

<hr /></blockquote>
I just caught this and I did see the show,Steven pisses a lot of people off thats his job but it does ring with some truth and I'm not just talking race here,theres more.

Most of us have either played with a teammate or have had something to do with sports arena that can't be related to anything we've experienced in life like "our" coachs and it hurts me to see these kids take over the game and now the buisness like this...they have no heart or love for the game and bitch and cry all day long until their on ESPN whinning their asses off and getting fat and rich off the fans sentiments.

I'm sick and tired of it and point my finger at the new "Million" dollar kids and TV exposure like LeBron got on ESPN which was just a high school game blown up today these kids some, cry foul and take the ball home if they can't play well its gotten worse if they can't do what they want then they get their coachs fired,a once highly and respected position since it intales a lot about social skills,respect and team spirit which in turn builds courage character and respect for all people blacks and whites alike. I remember my favorite coach and I'd never disrespect him like these kids do today its a crying shame.

If you've ever had a good coach and respected him for his efforts and lessons in life he tried to teach you, then you'd know how that relationship and bond is...today its about TV contacts,endorsments and God knows what they'll want next Hell they're even managing and operating the teams via getting coachs and general managers looked at instead of getting rid of worsum players who plague a team with their bad attitudes and poor performaces, because they are in positions to influence front office moves popular opions and large over excessive contracts which leave the teams in a dire and financial tailspin leaving the GM's to do the behind the scenes wheeling and dealing for more players that sometimes are of lesser character I won't name any names but "They" know who they are trust me they know.

Sucks if you ask me you got the money nowadays you got job security(or do you?) like the top paid echelon of coachs like Phil,Brown,Gundy these guys aren't going anywhere if somebody is going to leave from these guys teams it ain't gonna be them they 've got the big money contracts and their players know that
and respond accordingly if they want to keep their jobs and play there.

I saw what Iverson said after the firing and you know I truly believe he ment well but management made Ayers the scape-goat on this one and those players should be ashamed and embaressed like Steven said.

Its ashame a dam shame.

Holla Back

**Rickster101** · 02-11-2004, 04:25 AM

Re: Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
TheKing said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
timid said:
Umm, I pretty much agree with Steven A.

<hr /></blockquote>yup he made some great points on PTI earlier today

<hr /></blockquote>
I just caught this and I did see the show,Steven pisses a lot of people off thats his job but it does ring with some truth and I'm not just talking race here,theres more.

Most of us have either played with a teammate or have had something to do with sports arena that can't be related to anything we've experienced in life like "our" coachs and it hurts me to see these kids take over the game and now the buisness like this...they have no heart or love for the game and bitch and cry all day long until their on ESPN whinning their asses off and getting fat and rich off the fans sentiments.

I'm sick and tired of it and point my finger at the new "Million" dollar kids and TV exposure like LeBron got on ESPN which was just a high school game blown up today these kids some, cry foul and take the ball home if they can't play well its gotten worse if they can't do what they want then they get their coachs fired,a once highly and respected position since it intales a lot about social skills,respect and team spirit which in turn builds courage character and respect for all people blacks and whites alike. I remember my favorite coach and I'd never disrespect him like these kids do today its a crying shame.

If you've ever had a good coach and respected him for his efforts and lessons in life he tried to teach you, then you'd know how that relationship and bond is...today its about TV contacts,endorsments and God knows what they'll want next Hell they're even managing and operating the teams via getting coachs and general managers looked at instead of getting rid of worsum players who plague a team with their bad attitudes and poor performaces, because they are in positions to influence front office moves popular opions and large over excessive contracts which leave the teams in a dire and financial tailspin leaving the GM's to do the behind the scenes wheeling and dealing for more players that sometimes are of lesser character I won't name any names but "They" know who they are trust me they know.

Sucks if you ask me you got the money nowadays you got job security(or do you?) like the top paid echelon of coachs like Phil,Brown,Gundy these guys aren't going anywhere if somebody is going to leave from these guys teams it ain't gonna be them they 've got the big money contracts and their players know that
and respond accordingly if they want to keep their jobs and play there.

I saw what Iverson said after the firing and you know I truly believe he ment well but management made Ayers the scape-goat on this one and those players should be ashamed and embaressed like Steven said.

Its ashame a dam shame.

Holla Back

**Rickster101** · 02-11-2004, 04:25 AM

Re: Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
TheKing said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
timid said:
Umm, I pretty much agree with Steven A.

<hr /></blockquote>yup he made some great points on PTI earlier today

<hr /></blockquote>
I just caught this and I did see the show,Steven pisses a lot of people off thats his job but it does ring with some truth and I'm not just talking race here,theres more.

Most of us have either played with a teammate or have had something to do with sports arena that can't be related to anything we've experienced in life like "our" coachs and it hurts me to see these kids take over the game and now the buisness like this...they have no heart or love for the game and bitch and cry all day long until their on ESPN whinning their asses off and getting fat and rich off the fans sentiments.

I'm sick and tired of it and point my finger at the new "Million" dollar kids and TV exposure like LeBron got on ESPN which was just a high school game blown up today these kids some, cry foul and take the ball home if they can't play well its gotten worse if they can't do what they want then they get their coachs fired,a once highly and respected position since it intales a lot about social skills,respect and team spirit which in turn builds courage character and respect for all people blacks and whites alike. I remember my favorite coach and I'd never disrespect him like these kids do today its a crying shame.

If you've ever had a good coach and respected him for his efforts and lessons in life he tried to teach you, then you'd know how that relationship and bond is...today its about TV contacts,endorsments and God knows what they'll want next Hell they're even managing and operating the teams via getting coachs and general managers looked at instead of getting rid of worsum players who plague a team with their bad attitudes and poor performaces, because they are in positions to influence front office moves popular opions and large over excessive contracts which leave the teams in a dire and financial tailspin leaving the GM's to do the behind the scenes wheeling and dealing for more players that sometimes are of lesser character I won't name any names but "They" know who they are trust me they know.

Sucks if you ask me you got the money nowadays you got job security(or do you?) like the top paid echelon of coachs like Phil,Brown,Gundy these guys aren't going anywhere if somebody is going to leave from these guys teams it ain't gonna be them they 've got the big money contracts and their players know that
and respond accordingly if they want to keep their jobs and play there.

I saw what Iverson said after the firing and you know I truly believe he ment well but management made Ayers the scape-goat on this one and those players should be ashamed and embaressed like Steven said.

Its ashame a dam shame.

Holla Back

**Tha_Kid** · 02-11-2004, 07:54 AM

Re: Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
HMcCoy said:
This is more an issue of NBA teams using recently-retired players with NO NBA head coaching and little if any assistant experience. They hire these guys because

a. They're cheap.

b. They're percieved to be better able to relate to young, African Americans.

c. If they don't work out, they're an EASY fire. No huge outrage, doesn't reflect poorly on the players(When LB left, seemed like it was the selfish players faults. Same with Wilkins, Karl).

Problem is that the players know these things too. They KNOW their coach is expendable nowadays. Even when it seems to work out, all it takes is for that lame-duck coach to rub the team superstar the wrong way, and its curtains.

I think race is an issue, but only because the teams are hiring coaches who aren't qualified for the job, and the majority of these "cheap, no-frills" hires happen to be black. Ayers couldn't even control the Buckeyes when he was the O-State head coach. No way he should have been named 6ers caoch.

Ironically, this situation is the flip-side of the NFL's coaching problem....Hire the best candidate reguardless of race. Be FAIR, but hire the best.

<hr /></blockquote>

**Tha_Kid** · 02-11-2004, 07:54 AM

Re: Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
HMcCoy said:
This is more an issue of NBA teams using recently-retired players with NO NBA head coaching and little if any assistant experience. They hire these guys because

a. They're cheap.

b. They're percieved to be better able to relate to young, African Americans.

c. If they don't work out, they're an EASY fire. No huge outrage, doesn't reflect poorly on the players(When LB left, seemed like it was the selfish players faults. Same with Wilkins, Karl).

Problem is that the players know these things too. They KNOW their coach is expendable nowadays. Even when it seems to work out, all it takes is for that lame-duck coach to rub the team superstar the wrong way, and its curtains.

I think race is an issue, but only because the teams are hiring coaches who aren't qualified for the job, and the majority of these "cheap, no-frills" hires happen to be black. Ayers couldn't even control the Buckeyes when he was the O-State head coach. No way he should have been named 6ers caoch.

Ironically, this situation is the flip-side of the NFL's coaching problem....Hire the best candidate reguardless of race. Be FAIR, but hire the best.

<hr /></blockquote>

**Tha_Kid** · 02-11-2004, 07:54 AM

Re: Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
HMcCoy said:
This is more an issue of NBA teams using recently-retired players with NO NBA head coaching and little if any assistant experience. They hire these guys because

a. They're cheap.

b. They're percieved to be better able to relate to young, African Americans.

c. If they don't work out, they're an EASY fire. No huge outrage, doesn't reflect poorly on the players(When LB left, seemed like it was the selfish players faults. Same with Wilkins, Karl).

Problem is that the players know these things too. They KNOW their coach is expendable nowadays. Even when it seems to work out, all it takes is for that lame-duck coach to rub the team superstar the wrong way, and its curtains.

I think race is an issue, but only because the teams are hiring coaches who aren't qualified for the job, and the majority of these "cheap, no-frills" hires happen to be black. Ayers couldn't even control the Buckeyes when he was the O-State head coach. No way he should have been named 6ers caoch.

Ironically, this situation is the flip-side of the NFL's coaching problem....Hire the best candidate reguardless of race. Be FAIR, but hire the best.

<hr /></blockquote>

**muzion** · 02-11-2004, 12:49 PM

Re: Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
yungmac1 said:
I Have to comment on this because it is right up my alley.

Okay High school coach black. This guy was hard nose, I mean 4 hour practices, cross-counrty, Track , AAU. He was more like a drill sargent than a coach and the season was boot-camp.
This was a 5-4 Black coach who not only had his players respect, but every student and gang memeber. This was a Detroit Public school too.

Then I had a Black coach when I went to junior college who was the total opposite really laid back joking all the time practice was a joke. I could run 2 miles workout and shoot for and hour and a half then practice then say after and shoot for an hour and go home not tired. I did not respect him and neither did the rest of the team black, white, and Arab.

To wrap this up I had a white coach my last two years of college and he was supposed to be the winningest coach in michigan, the practices where okay, better than the last coach, but nowhere near the first coach. He tried to be like a father figure to the black athletes he felt had a rough life with out a dad, but the rest of the african american athlete's were treated like crap, so he lost alot of respect from all and we did play like we wanted to be there.

It doesn't matter what color a coach is If he or she does not set standards for the coach player relationship by keeping that fine line of "Master teacher" - "Players Coach"

I don't agree with Stephen A. Smith I think the race card is a scap-goat for the firing of black coaches. I think that todays players are a bunch of ******* with the expecption of a few Garnett, Duncan, and hell even the rookies Lebron and melo are showing more class than a seasoned vet.

<hr /></blockquote>
I didn't explain this in this thread but I did on another board. What you pointed out through your history is exactly what I mean. If your a black coach and your not a hard-nosed coach, the odds of you succeeding in an individualistic sport such as basketball is much lower than if that coach is white. Part of it is as a result of the slave mentality that some players have, where they'll value more the white coach rather than the black one. A black person in a position of power has to command respect right away and maybe even be act like a drill sargent, cause if not he or she won't be able to do what he or she needs to do.

**muzion** · 02-11-2004, 12:49 PM

Re: Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
yungmac1 said:
I Have to comment on this because it is right up my alley.

Okay High school coach black. This guy was hard nose, I mean 4 hour practices, cross-counrty, Track , AAU. He was more like a drill sargent than a coach and the season was boot-camp.
This was a 5-4 Black coach who not only had his players respect, but every student and gang memeber. This was a Detroit Public school too.

Then I had a Black coach when I went to junior college who was the total opposite really laid back joking all the time practice was a joke. I could run 2 miles workout and shoot for and hour and a half then practice then say after and shoot for an hour and go home not tired. I did not respect him and neither did the rest of the team black, white, and Arab.

To wrap this up I had a white coach my last two years of college and he was supposed to be the winningest coach in michigan, the practices where okay, better than the last coach, but nowhere near the first coach. He tried to be like a father figure to the black athletes he felt had a rough life with out a dad, but the rest of the african american athlete's were treated like crap, so he lost alot of respect from all and we did play like we wanted to be there.

It doesn't matter what color a coach is If he or she does not set standards for the coach player relationship by keeping that fine line of "Master teacher" - "Players Coach"

I don't agree with Stephen A. Smith I think the race card is a scap-goat for the firing of black coaches. I think that todays players are a bunch of ******* with the expecption of a few Garnett, Duncan, and hell even the rookies Lebron and melo are showing more class than a seasoned vet.

<hr /></blockquote>
I didn't explain this in this thread but I did on another board. What you pointed out through your history is exactly what I mean. If your a black coach and your not a hard-nosed coach, the odds of you succeeding in an individualistic sport such as basketball is much lower than if that coach is white. Part of it is as a result of the slave mentality that some players have, where they'll value more the white coach rather than the black one. A black person in a position of power has to command respect right away and maybe even be act like a drill sargent, cause if not he or she won't be able to do what he or she needs to do.

Stephen A. Smith: Players fail to give best to black coaches

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