2014 Off-Season Thread

[OSUFan_88]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Holy ****, are we seriously saying Klay Thompson is a better player than Kyrie Irving?

[NaQuinAggie]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

dat cavs fanboy , must be the one who got banned 500 times

klay slightly better than kyries D? you realize that would make klay a below average defender..

so Irving doesn't put up better numbers in those catigories? news to me. and Klay is an average defender at best.

[JODYE]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Seems like every time I come into this thread, I stumble into some nonsense lol

Really the argument between these two can't even be made at this point. Klay is a 3rd option when Lee is healthy, and Irving was the focal point of the Cavs offense whenever he was on the floor.

If you trust the Per 36, or Per 100 Pos projections, Kyrie is better in nearly every category other than defense, and just using their actual metrics from last season, Kyrie was the better player even when having a "down year".

And you can see it on the floor as well. Kyrie is the better ball handler, better at creating his own shot, better passer, better pick and roll player etc. I'm really excited to see his growth playing alongside LeBron where he doesn't have to be the go to scorer anymore. I think we are really going to see Kyrie grow as a pure PG/passer.

In regards to Klay, to me he is a glorified Rudy Fernandez at this point. The fact that he is even thinking about asking for a max contract is ludicrous.

[23]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Let's remember this is about asking for the max not about vs. Players

[SteelersFreak]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

"Overrated as hell" in that he's not good and easily replaceable or as in he gets too much credit/talked about more than he should be?

The second one. He's obviously not a bad player but personally I think he's benefited greatly from getting to play with guys like Curry and Lee. He also loves to keep throwing shots up even when he can't hit anything.

[AC]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Lol, that must be that guy's 8th account now.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I miss wizzleman

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I really, really agree with Simmons here

Rockets

One of the funny parts about spending way too much time on the Internet is that sometimes you initially agree with a criticism, but then everybody starts talking about it and tweeting about it, one-upping each other with hotter takes, and eventually the opinions get taken so far that you can’t help but double back and start defending what you were initially criticizing. That’s what happened with Daryl Morey this week.
It went like this:

• “Wow, the Rockets really looked like idiots in the end this summer.” (Yep.)
• “Morey isn’t as invincible as everyone says he is.” (100 percent.)
• “What happened this summer was a colossal mistake.” (Umm …)
• “Morey’s just a product of incestuous media putting him on a pedestal. He’s never been that great” (OK.)
• “Seven years in Houston, and Morey’s made the second round once. Why doesn’t anyone write an article about THAT?” [Backing away slowly]
• “FINALLY, the myth of Morey is being exposed.” (Wait, what?)
• “Will the Rockets even make the playoffs this year?” (WHAT?)

Everybody needs to calm down. The Rockets will be OK. This summer was all about going for Chris Bosh and Carmelo Anthony to fill out a contender’s nucleus, then going over the cap to bring back Parsons as a fourth star. That plan may not have won a title, but it was worth the risk.

Now Houston’s paying Trevor Ariza half of what Parsons is getting, and in return it will still have shooting to stretch the floor, plus much better defense. It’s not perfect, but come on. The only way this offseason is that bad is if you think Parsons is that good.

You can debate what the Rockets should do from here, but “not pay Chandler Parsons $15 million a year” is hard to argue with. That decision would’ve happened next offseason regardless. Just because it came a year early doesn’t mean we have to suddenly have a collective reckoning over Morey’s supposed fraudulent career.

Anyway, I’m sticking with the Chris Paul comparison from Monday. Morey’s easy to root against for all kinds of legitimate reasons, and he’s never been as infallible as the hype suggests, but the broader track record is tough to criticize. That part is not a myth. I hated watching the Rockets last year, but go back and look at the 2011 roster. Morey turned that team into James Harden and Dwight Howard and a five-year window in which a title is at least a realistic goal. If the big criticism is “TALK TO ME WHEN HE WINS SOMETHING,” well, that’s what people say about Paul. It doesn’t mean he’s not really good.

In conclusion, I hated the Week of Morey Backlash for a lot of reasons, but especially because it made me defend the ******* Rockets.

GRADE: B, AND A NEW MASCOT

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

People have to stop disregarding defense as some "cool if you have it thing". Two people have just casually said "other than defense, Kyrie is better in every way." But the thing is 50% of the time a player is on the floor, he's playing defense. So if you count defense for half a player's evaluation, there's actually a discussion to be had. I don't really care to have the dicussion, I'm just pointing out the fallacy in saying "other than defense, Kyrie is a better player in every way."

[702]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

Don't understand how people are trying to compare Kyrie, the lead option PG on a lottery team, and Thompson, the 3rd option on a playoff team.


Going to somewhat try to make the case for Klay here.


Klay does one thing at an elite level, shooting. This is the MOST valuable skill a perimeter player can possess. You have guys like Anthony Morrow who are literally only good at one thing and are continually employed throughout the league. Now, Morrow isn't a max player obviously. What separates Klay is the fact he is also an above-average defender that, due to his size, youth, and athleticism, projects to become even better. His size should also allow him to switch between the 2 and the 3.


He lacks the ball handling and ability to create that a true high-level wing needs, but that's a gamble that teams have shown they're willing to take. Look at Demar Derozan, who while not being an elite creator, has developed from a non-creator to a solid one. He was at a similar spot as Klay when he signed his (large) extension. He was a better athlete, but not much so, and he was a bad shooter. People blasted that deal at the time, but it seems to be looked at as a solid deal at this point. Teams can't always save for sure things, they have to take gambles.


You also have to take into account the position. There was one SG on the All-NBA teams this year, and he's absolutely not a two-way player. The All-Star game had 4. Harden, Wade, DeRozan and Joe Johnson. That is not an impressive list. Someone will sign him to a max deal as a bet on him to become an all-star player. The comparison is Hayward. Hayward had a full season to be a number one option last year and prove he could do it and he.... didn't. He still got a max deal. This is where Klay only playing as a number one option in games where he has it going is going to play in to his favor. Teams will see that and buy in to his potential to develop as a star on the wing.


Another big part of this is the supposed big salary cap jump that's due to come in two years. He'll be signing a max deal (16 mil) at a much smaller number than he would be the year after. So while it is a max deal, it'll be comparatively a smaller hit than any max deals signed afterward. That makes a difference in how big his cap hit will be going forward.


Now, with all that said... If I'm Golden State I'm not signing that extension. They have big money tied up to Curry, Bogut and Iguodala already. With Barnes and Green on the wing behind Iggy I'd rather spend the money on a 4. I don't know why in the world they still have him instead of Love. That has to be misreporting.


But, to run with the Minnesota angle, if I received Klay I'd sign him to that max extension. Match him with Martin this year, space the floor around Pekovic and roll with that and see how he develops. Not like anyone is signing there. Take a gamble and see if him and LaVine can become the Light-Bright All-Stars. For a team like Minnesota or Toronto (DeRozan) or Charlotte (Stephenson) or New Orleans (Eric Gordon) or Utah (Hayward) that's the type of move you have to make. Hell, let him hit RFA and just match the max offer he signs elsewhere. Worst case you have an overpaid high-level 3 and D guy.


I don't blame him for refusing to sign anything less than a max deal right now. It's going to happen.

[23]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

That's enough man.

[turty11]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

well said

[ScoobySnax]

2014 Off-Season Thread

The second one. He's obviously not a bad player but personally I think he's benefited greatly from getting to play with guys like Curry and Lee. He also loves to keep throwing shots up even when he can't hit anything.

Agreed. Let him go to a team where chucking isn't encouraged as much and see what happens. He's good, but I see him as a glorified catch and shoot guy.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

42% on 535 3PA is chucking? That's really damn efficient. Also, Klay was quite cleary the 2nd option on that team.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2014 Off-Season Thread

I miss wizzleman

They should have let him back just so we could see his reaction to LeBron leaving Miami.

I really, really agree with Simmons here

Bill Simmons is still an idiot. That 900,000 they didn't pay Parsons wouldn't have kept them from landing Bosh or Carmelo. They would have still had the room to give them a max and kept Parsons without having to overpay him 15 million. Morey got lucky that OKC was stupid enough to basically trade Harden for Perkins and Dwight to be stupid enough to opt into a contract with a team he didn't want to be on and Kobe being Kobe. Props to him for getting Duh to sign on there for less, no doubt. But overpaying Lin and Asik and landing Ariza now isn't cause to jump out and say that people were overreacting with the backlash of this year. He ****ed up plain and simple and couldn't luck his way out of this one. We'll see if he can bounce back, but I doubt it, because he'll be swinging for the fences in FA again next year and the year after I'm certain.