And in my opinion, defense was MUCH tougher back in the 80's and 90's. The Bad Boy Pistons and the Knicks used to beat the **** out of Jordan night in and night out. They would knock him on his [censored] and laugh when he would get up and no foul was called. Nowadays, hand checks are constantly called. The fact remains that the NBA purposely has decreased their foul leniency to increase scores because teams are consistently shooting under 40% from the field. In the 80's and 90's, open players HIT open shots. Consistently! Teams shot 47% from the field regularly. Today, that's a great game. It's not because of the defense. It's because the league is filled with college-quality players who never learned the fundamentals of hitting jumpers and wanna make Sportscenter every night. Today's defense doesn't compare to the D's of yesteryear. Fellas, rent some old games and you will see what I mean.
How good is Kobe?
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Re: How good is Kobe?
And in my opinion, defense was MUCH tougher back in the 80's and 90's. The Bad Boy Pistons and the Knicks used to beat the **** out of Jordan night in and night out. They would knock him on his [censored] and laugh when he would get up and no foul was called. Nowadays, hand checks are constantly called. The fact remains that the NBA purposely has decreased their foul leniency to increase scores because teams are consistently shooting under 40% from the field. In the 80's and 90's, open players HIT open shots. Consistently! Teams shot 47% from the field regularly. Today, that's a great game. It's not because of the defense. It's because the league is filled with college-quality players who never learned the fundamentals of hitting jumpers and wanna make Sportscenter every night. Today's defense doesn't compare to the D's of yesteryear. Fellas, rent some old games and you will see what I mean. -
Re: How good is Kobe?
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
immortal said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
LedouxRoc said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
immortal said:
Jordan's first 3-peat:
PG: John Paxson
SG: Jordan
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Horace Grant
C: Bill Cartwright
Kobe's Lakers:
PG: Gary Payton
SG: Kobe
SF: Devean George
PF: Karl Malone
C: Shaq
If I am not mistaken, the ONLY position the Bulls are better (excluding Kobe and MJ) is SF. And Shaq would DOMINATE any player on either team.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Well that team is better too, but I was really talking about the Tony Kukuc, Dennis Rodman, Steve Kerr, Luc Longley team.
Remember bench, and yes Horace Grant was better than present Malone and Paxson was better than present Payton.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
This is a joke, right?
Horace Grant was a mediocre player AT BEST! Malone averaged 20 ppg and 10 rpg last year.
John Paxson was a 3-point shooter. THAT'S IT!!! He averaged about 7 ppg. Payton can score 20 ppg easily on a team without Kobe or Shaq.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
See that's where your argument goes wrong. Yes Malone averaged 20 and 10, but that was LAST YEAR. His role is different.
Look at Grant's numbers during that 1st three peat stretch and look at Malone's numbers this year:
Grant:
12.8 ppg, 8.40 rpg, 2.3 apg, 1.22 spg, .88 bpg
14.2 ppg, 10.00 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.23 spg, 1.62 bpg
13.2 ppg, 9.50 bpg, 2.6 apg, 1.16 spg, 1.25 bpg
Malone:
13.2 ppg, 8.70 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.19 spg, .48 bpg
Looking at the numbers, you can't say malone is as good as as you make him out to be (right now)
Payton is producing as much as Paxson so far in these playoffs.
But if you give these Lakers one more season, then they will be better.Comment
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Re: How good is Kobe?
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
immortal said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
LedouxRoc said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
immortal said:
Jordan's first 3-peat:
PG: John Paxson
SG: Jordan
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Horace Grant
C: Bill Cartwright
Kobe's Lakers:
PG: Gary Payton
SG: Kobe
SF: Devean George
PF: Karl Malone
C: Shaq
If I am not mistaken, the ONLY position the Bulls are better (excluding Kobe and MJ) is SF. And Shaq would DOMINATE any player on either team.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Well that team is better too, but I was really talking about the Tony Kukuc, Dennis Rodman, Steve Kerr, Luc Longley team.
Remember bench, and yes Horace Grant was better than present Malone and Paxson was better than present Payton.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
This is a joke, right?
Horace Grant was a mediocre player AT BEST! Malone averaged 20 ppg and 10 rpg last year.
John Paxson was a 3-point shooter. THAT'S IT!!! He averaged about 7 ppg. Payton can score 20 ppg easily on a team without Kobe or Shaq.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
See that's where your argument goes wrong. Yes Malone averaged 20 and 10, but that was LAST YEAR. His role is different.
Look at Grant's numbers during that 1st three peat stretch and look at Malone's numbers this year:
Grant:
12.8 ppg, 8.40 rpg, 2.3 apg, 1.22 spg, .88 bpg
14.2 ppg, 10.00 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.23 spg, 1.62 bpg
13.2 ppg, 9.50 bpg, 2.6 apg, 1.16 spg, 1.25 bpg
Malone:
13.2 ppg, 8.70 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.19 spg, .48 bpg
Looking at the numbers, you can't say malone is as good as as you make him out to be (right now)
Payton is producing as much as Paxson so far in these playoffs.
But if you give these Lakers one more season, then they will be better.Comment
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Re: How good is Kobe?
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
immortal said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
LedouxRoc said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
immortal said:
Jordan's first 3-peat:
PG: John Paxson
SG: Jordan
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Horace Grant
C: Bill Cartwright
Kobe's Lakers:
PG: Gary Payton
SG: Kobe
SF: Devean George
PF: Karl Malone
C: Shaq
If I am not mistaken, the ONLY position the Bulls are better (excluding Kobe and MJ) is SF. And Shaq would DOMINATE any player on either team.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Well that team is better too, but I was really talking about the Tony Kukuc, Dennis Rodman, Steve Kerr, Luc Longley team.
Remember bench, and yes Horace Grant was better than present Malone and Paxson was better than present Payton.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
This is a joke, right?
Horace Grant was a mediocre player AT BEST! Malone averaged 20 ppg and 10 rpg last year.
John Paxson was a 3-point shooter. THAT'S IT!!! He averaged about 7 ppg. Payton can score 20 ppg easily on a team without Kobe or Shaq.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
See that's where your argument goes wrong. Yes Malone averaged 20 and 10, but that was LAST YEAR. His role is different.
Look at Grant's numbers during that 1st three peat stretch and look at Malone's numbers this year:
Grant:
12.8 ppg, 8.40 rpg, 2.3 apg, 1.22 spg, .88 bpg
14.2 ppg, 10.00 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.23 spg, 1.62 bpg
13.2 ppg, 9.50 bpg, 2.6 apg, 1.16 spg, 1.25 bpg
Malone:
13.2 ppg, 8.70 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.19 spg, .48 bpg
Looking at the numbers, you can't say malone is as good as as you make him out to be (right now)
Payton is producing as much as Paxson so far in these playoffs.
But if you give these Lakers one more season, then they will be better.Comment
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Re: How good is Kobe?
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
EWRMETS said:
Immortal, the joke is calling Payton and Malone, Kobe's Lakers. The Lakers already three peated with their starters being
C-Shaq
PF-Robert Horry/Horace Grant/Samaki Walker
SF-Rick Fox
SG-Kobe Bryant
PG-Ron Harper/Derek Fischer.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Bulls:
C: Cartwright
PF: Grant
SF: Pippen
SG: Jordan
PG: Paxson
Doesn't seem like much of a difference between the previous comparison, slick.Comment
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Re: How good is Kobe?
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
EWRMETS said:
Immortal, the joke is calling Payton and Malone, Kobe's Lakers. The Lakers already three peated with their starters being
C-Shaq
PF-Robert Horry/Horace Grant/Samaki Walker
SF-Rick Fox
SG-Kobe Bryant
PG-Ron Harper/Derek Fischer.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Bulls:
C: Cartwright
PF: Grant
SF: Pippen
SG: Jordan
PG: Paxson
Doesn't seem like much of a difference between the previous comparison, slick.Comment
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Re: How good is Kobe?
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
EWRMETS said:
Immortal, the joke is calling Payton and Malone, Kobe's Lakers. The Lakers already three peated with their starters being
C-Shaq
PF-Robert Horry/Horace Grant/Samaki Walker
SF-Rick Fox
SG-Kobe Bryant
PG-Ron Harper/Derek Fischer.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Bulls:
C: Cartwright
PF: Grant
SF: Pippen
SG: Jordan
PG: Paxson
Doesn't seem like much of a difference between the previous comparison, slick.Comment
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Re: How good is Kobe?
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
immortal said:
And in my opinion, defense was MUCH tougher back in the 80's and 90's. The Bad Boy Pistons and the Knicks used to beat the **** out of Jordan night in and night out. They would knock him on his [censored] and laugh when he would get up and no foul was called. Nowadays, hand checks are constantly called. The fact remains that the NBA purposely has decreased their foul leniency to increase scores because teams are consistently shooting under 40% from the field. In the 80's and 90's, open players HIT open shots. Consistently! Teams shot 47% from the field regularly. Today, that's a great game. It's not because of the defense. It's because the league is filled with college-quality players who never learned the fundamentals of hitting jumpers and wanna make Sportscenter every night. Today's defense doesn't compare to the D's of yesteryear. Fellas, rent some old games and you will see what I mean.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
That's why they changed the rules. You know a player is special when they change the rules because of you (eg. Wilt and MJ).Comment
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Re: How good is Kobe?
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
immortal said:
And in my opinion, defense was MUCH tougher back in the 80's and 90's. The Bad Boy Pistons and the Knicks used to beat the **** out of Jordan night in and night out. They would knock him on his [censored] and laugh when he would get up and no foul was called. Nowadays, hand checks are constantly called. The fact remains that the NBA purposely has decreased their foul leniency to increase scores because teams are consistently shooting under 40% from the field. In the 80's and 90's, open players HIT open shots. Consistently! Teams shot 47% from the field regularly. Today, that's a great game. It's not because of the defense. It's because the league is filled with college-quality players who never learned the fundamentals of hitting jumpers and wanna make Sportscenter every night. Today's defense doesn't compare to the D's of yesteryear. Fellas, rent some old games and you will see what I mean.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
That's why they changed the rules. You know a player is special when they change the rules because of you (eg. Wilt and MJ).Comment
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Re: How good is Kobe?
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
immortal said:
And in my opinion, defense was MUCH tougher back in the 80's and 90's. The Bad Boy Pistons and the Knicks used to beat the **** out of Jordan night in and night out. They would knock him on his [censored] and laugh when he would get up and no foul was called. Nowadays, hand checks are constantly called. The fact remains that the NBA purposely has decreased their foul leniency to increase scores because teams are consistently shooting under 40% from the field. In the 80's and 90's, open players HIT open shots. Consistently! Teams shot 47% from the field regularly. Today, that's a great game. It's not because of the defense. It's because the league is filled with college-quality players who never learned the fundamentals of hitting jumpers and wanna make Sportscenter every night. Today's defense doesn't compare to the D's of yesteryear. Fellas, rent some old games and you will see what I mean.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
That's why they changed the rules. You know a player is special when they change the rules because of you (eg. Wilt and MJ).Comment
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Re: How good is Kobe?
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
no actually we don't know, back then it seems to me that more people were good at basketball, but these days it seems like there are better athletes in this game. And yeah km and gp helped but they are nowhere near as good as before, and i hope you know that as well.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
More athletic, but can't play as well. The game has degenerated some. You know it's true. That's why no one player can take the torch from MJ like he did Magic and Bird. That's why you have guys in the L now who would have never survived in the 80's like Madsen, Miles, Rush, Medvedenko LOL. I guess GP and KM don't matter now though huh? The team is just fine without them, but when they play like utter trash the Lakers lose.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
"You don't. D is not better now"
Yea you're right. Guys a couple of years ago were just some of those most special people ever created. The fact is that they all just shot so much better than everyone now, because well, they just shot better. Everyone scored in the hundreds because, well, they just shot a whole lot better. On top of that, the defense was better, so they must have really shot the ball a whole lot better. It takes much more to score on man-2-man defense than it does against the zone, man, guys must have shot the ball a whole lot better. DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Ever wonder why people praise Dallas' offense so much, and DET'd D so much?Comment
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Re: How good is Kobe?
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
no actually we don't know, back then it seems to me that more people were good at basketball, but these days it seems like there are better athletes in this game. And yeah km and gp helped but they are nowhere near as good as before, and i hope you know that as well.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
More athletic, but can't play as well. The game has degenerated some. You know it's true. That's why no one player can take the torch from MJ like he did Magic and Bird. That's why you have guys in the L now who would have never survived in the 80's like Madsen, Miles, Rush, Medvedenko LOL. I guess GP and KM don't matter now though huh? The team is just fine without them, but when they play like utter trash the Lakers lose.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
"You don't. D is not better now"
Yea you're right. Guys a couple of years ago were just some of those most special people ever created. The fact is that they all just shot so much better than everyone now, because well, they just shot better. Everyone scored in the hundreds because, well, they just shot a whole lot better. On top of that, the defense was better, so they must have really shot the ball a whole lot better. It takes much more to score on man-2-man defense than it does against the zone, man, guys must have shot the ball a whole lot better. DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Ever wonder why people praise Dallas' offense so much, and DET'd D so much?Comment
-
Re: How good is Kobe?
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
no actually we don't know, back then it seems to me that more people were good at basketball, but these days it seems like there are better athletes in this game. And yeah km and gp helped but they are nowhere near as good as before, and i hope you know that as well.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
More athletic, but can't play as well. The game has degenerated some. You know it's true. That's why no one player can take the torch from MJ like he did Magic and Bird. That's why you have guys in the L now who would have never survived in the 80's like Madsen, Miles, Rush, Medvedenko LOL. I guess GP and KM don't matter now though huh? The team is just fine without them, but when they play like utter trash the Lakers lose.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
"You don't. D is not better now"
Yea you're right. Guys a couple of years ago were just some of those most special people ever created. The fact is that they all just shot so much better than everyone now, because well, they just shot better. Everyone scored in the hundreds because, well, they just shot a whole lot better. On top of that, the defense was better, so they must have really shot the ball a whole lot better. It takes much more to score on man-2-man defense than it does against the zone, man, guys must have shot the ball a whole lot better. DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Ever wonder why people praise Dallas' offense so much, and DET'd D so much?Comment
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