How good is Kobe?

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  • immortal
    Rookie
    • Mar 2004
    • 86

    #511
    Re: How good is Kobe?

    And in my opinion, defense was MUCH tougher back in the 80's and 90's. The Bad Boy Pistons and the Knicks used to beat the **** out of Jordan night in and night out. They would knock him on his [censored] and laugh when he would get up and no foul was called. Nowadays, hand checks are constantly called. The fact remains that the NBA purposely has decreased their foul leniency to increase scores because teams are consistently shooting under 40% from the field. In the 80's and 90's, open players HIT open shots. Consistently! Teams shot 47% from the field regularly. Today, that's a great game. It's not because of the defense. It's because the league is filled with college-quality players who never learned the fundamentals of hitting jumpers and wanna make Sportscenter every night. Today's defense doesn't compare to the D's of yesteryear. Fellas, rent some old games and you will see what I mean.

    Comment

    • Dynasty4Kobe
      MVP
      • Apr 2003
      • 2769

      #512
      Re: How good is Kobe?

      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
      immortal said:
      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
      LedouxRoc said:
      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
      immortal said:
      Jordan's first 3-peat:
      PG: John Paxson
      SG: Jordan
      SF: Scottie Pippen
      PF: Horace Grant
      C: Bill Cartwright

      Kobe's Lakers:
      PG: Gary Payton
      SG: Kobe
      SF: Devean George
      PF: Karl Malone
      C: Shaq

      If I am not mistaken, the ONLY position the Bulls are better (excluding Kobe and MJ) is SF. And Shaq would DOMINATE any player on either team.

      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

      Well that team is better too, but I was really talking about the Tony Kukuc, Dennis Rodman, Steve Kerr, Luc Longley team.

      Remember bench, and yes Horace Grant was better than present Malone and Paxson was better than present Payton.

      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

      This is a joke, right?
      Horace Grant was a mediocre player AT BEST! Malone averaged 20 ppg and 10 rpg last year.
      John Paxson was a 3-point shooter. THAT'S IT!!! He averaged about 7 ppg. Payton can score 20 ppg easily on a team without Kobe or Shaq.


      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

      See that's where your argument goes wrong. Yes Malone averaged 20 and 10, but that was LAST YEAR. His role is different.
      Look at Grant's numbers during that 1st three peat stretch and look at Malone's numbers this year:
      Grant:
      12.8 ppg, 8.40 rpg, 2.3 apg, 1.22 spg, .88 bpg
      14.2 ppg, 10.00 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.23 spg, 1.62 bpg
      13.2 ppg, 9.50 bpg, 2.6 apg, 1.16 spg, 1.25 bpg

      Malone:
      13.2 ppg, 8.70 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.19 spg, .48 bpg

      Looking at the numbers, you can't say malone is as good as as you make him out to be (right now)

      Payton is producing as much as Paxson so far in these playoffs.

      But if you give these Lakers one more season, then they will be better.

      Comment

      • Dynasty4Kobe
        MVP
        • Apr 2003
        • 2769

        #513
        Re: How good is Kobe?

        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
        immortal said:
        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
        LedouxRoc said:
        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
        immortal said:
        Jordan's first 3-peat:
        PG: John Paxson
        SG: Jordan
        SF: Scottie Pippen
        PF: Horace Grant
        C: Bill Cartwright

        Kobe's Lakers:
        PG: Gary Payton
        SG: Kobe
        SF: Devean George
        PF: Karl Malone
        C: Shaq

        If I am not mistaken, the ONLY position the Bulls are better (excluding Kobe and MJ) is SF. And Shaq would DOMINATE any player on either team.

        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

        Well that team is better too, but I was really talking about the Tony Kukuc, Dennis Rodman, Steve Kerr, Luc Longley team.

        Remember bench, and yes Horace Grant was better than present Malone and Paxson was better than present Payton.

        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

        This is a joke, right?
        Horace Grant was a mediocre player AT BEST! Malone averaged 20 ppg and 10 rpg last year.
        John Paxson was a 3-point shooter. THAT'S IT!!! He averaged about 7 ppg. Payton can score 20 ppg easily on a team without Kobe or Shaq.


        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

        See that's where your argument goes wrong. Yes Malone averaged 20 and 10, but that was LAST YEAR. His role is different.
        Look at Grant's numbers during that 1st three peat stretch and look at Malone's numbers this year:
        Grant:
        12.8 ppg, 8.40 rpg, 2.3 apg, 1.22 spg, .88 bpg
        14.2 ppg, 10.00 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.23 spg, 1.62 bpg
        13.2 ppg, 9.50 bpg, 2.6 apg, 1.16 spg, 1.25 bpg

        Malone:
        13.2 ppg, 8.70 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.19 spg, .48 bpg

        Looking at the numbers, you can't say malone is as good as as you make him out to be (right now)

        Payton is producing as much as Paxson so far in these playoffs.

        But if you give these Lakers one more season, then they will be better.

        Comment

        • Dynasty4Kobe
          MVP
          • Apr 2003
          • 2769

          #514
          Re: How good is Kobe?

          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
          immortal said:
          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
          LedouxRoc said:
          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
          immortal said:
          Jordan's first 3-peat:
          PG: John Paxson
          SG: Jordan
          SF: Scottie Pippen
          PF: Horace Grant
          C: Bill Cartwright

          Kobe's Lakers:
          PG: Gary Payton
          SG: Kobe
          SF: Devean George
          PF: Karl Malone
          C: Shaq

          If I am not mistaken, the ONLY position the Bulls are better (excluding Kobe and MJ) is SF. And Shaq would DOMINATE any player on either team.

          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

          Well that team is better too, but I was really talking about the Tony Kukuc, Dennis Rodman, Steve Kerr, Luc Longley team.

          Remember bench, and yes Horace Grant was better than present Malone and Paxson was better than present Payton.

          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

          This is a joke, right?
          Horace Grant was a mediocre player AT BEST! Malone averaged 20 ppg and 10 rpg last year.
          John Paxson was a 3-point shooter. THAT'S IT!!! He averaged about 7 ppg. Payton can score 20 ppg easily on a team without Kobe or Shaq.


          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

          See that's where your argument goes wrong. Yes Malone averaged 20 and 10, but that was LAST YEAR. His role is different.
          Look at Grant's numbers during that 1st three peat stretch and look at Malone's numbers this year:
          Grant:
          12.8 ppg, 8.40 rpg, 2.3 apg, 1.22 spg, .88 bpg
          14.2 ppg, 10.00 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.23 spg, 1.62 bpg
          13.2 ppg, 9.50 bpg, 2.6 apg, 1.16 spg, 1.25 bpg

          Malone:
          13.2 ppg, 8.70 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.19 spg, .48 bpg

          Looking at the numbers, you can't say malone is as good as as you make him out to be (right now)

          Payton is producing as much as Paxson so far in these playoffs.

          But if you give these Lakers one more season, then they will be better.

          Comment

          • immortal
            Rookie
            • Mar 2004
            • 86

            #515
            Re: How good is Kobe?

            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
            EWRMETS said:
            Immortal, the joke is calling Payton and Malone, Kobe's Lakers. The Lakers already three peated with their starters being
            C-Shaq
            PF-Robert Horry/Horace Grant/Samaki Walker
            SF-Rick Fox
            SG-Kobe Bryant
            PG-Ron Harper/Derek Fischer.

            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

            Bulls:
            C: Cartwright
            PF: Grant
            SF: Pippen
            SG: Jordan
            PG: Paxson

            Doesn't seem like much of a difference between the previous comparison, slick.

            Comment

            • immortal
              Rookie
              • Mar 2004
              • 86

              #516
              Re: How good is Kobe?

              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
              EWRMETS said:
              Immortal, the joke is calling Payton and Malone, Kobe's Lakers. The Lakers already three peated with their starters being
              C-Shaq
              PF-Robert Horry/Horace Grant/Samaki Walker
              SF-Rick Fox
              SG-Kobe Bryant
              PG-Ron Harper/Derek Fischer.

              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

              Bulls:
              C: Cartwright
              PF: Grant
              SF: Pippen
              SG: Jordan
              PG: Paxson

              Doesn't seem like much of a difference between the previous comparison, slick.

              Comment

              • immortal
                Rookie
                • Mar 2004
                • 86

                #517
                Re: How good is Kobe?

                </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                EWRMETS said:
                Immortal, the joke is calling Payton and Malone, Kobe's Lakers. The Lakers already three peated with their starters being
                C-Shaq
                PF-Robert Horry/Horace Grant/Samaki Walker
                SF-Rick Fox
                SG-Kobe Bryant
                PG-Ron Harper/Derek Fischer.

                <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                Bulls:
                C: Cartwright
                PF: Grant
                SF: Pippen
                SG: Jordan
                PG: Paxson

                Doesn't seem like much of a difference between the previous comparison, slick.

                Comment

                • Leon
                  An Old Trafford
                  • Mar 2003
                  • 4981

                  #518
                  Re: How good is Kobe?

                  </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                  immortal said:
                  And in my opinion, defense was MUCH tougher back in the 80's and 90's. The Bad Boy Pistons and the Knicks used to beat the **** out of Jordan night in and night out. They would knock him on his [censored] and laugh when he would get up and no foul was called. Nowadays, hand checks are constantly called. The fact remains that the NBA purposely has decreased their foul leniency to increase scores because teams are consistently shooting under 40% from the field. In the 80's and 90's, open players HIT open shots. Consistently! Teams shot 47% from the field regularly. Today, that's a great game. It's not because of the defense. It's because the league is filled with college-quality players who never learned the fundamentals of hitting jumpers and wanna make Sportscenter every night. Today's defense doesn't compare to the D's of yesteryear. Fellas, rent some old games and you will see what I mean.

                  <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                  That's why they changed the rules. You know a player is special when they change the rules because of you (eg. Wilt and MJ).
                  "It's not how big you are; it's how big you play" - David Thompson

                  @nicroni

                  Comment

                  • Leon
                    An Old Trafford
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 4981

                    #519
                    Re: How good is Kobe?

                    </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                    immortal said:
                    And in my opinion, defense was MUCH tougher back in the 80's and 90's. The Bad Boy Pistons and the Knicks used to beat the **** out of Jordan night in and night out. They would knock him on his [censored] and laugh when he would get up and no foul was called. Nowadays, hand checks are constantly called. The fact remains that the NBA purposely has decreased their foul leniency to increase scores because teams are consistently shooting under 40% from the field. In the 80's and 90's, open players HIT open shots. Consistently! Teams shot 47% from the field regularly. Today, that's a great game. It's not because of the defense. It's because the league is filled with college-quality players who never learned the fundamentals of hitting jumpers and wanna make Sportscenter every night. Today's defense doesn't compare to the D's of yesteryear. Fellas, rent some old games and you will see what I mean.

                    <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                    That's why they changed the rules. You know a player is special when they change the rules because of you (eg. Wilt and MJ).
                    "It's not how big you are; it's how big you play" - David Thompson

                    @nicroni

                    Comment

                    • Leon
                      An Old Trafford
                      • Mar 2003
                      • 4981

                      #520
                      Re: How good is Kobe?

                      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                      immortal said:
                      And in my opinion, defense was MUCH tougher back in the 80's and 90's. The Bad Boy Pistons and the Knicks used to beat the **** out of Jordan night in and night out. They would knock him on his [censored] and laugh when he would get up and no foul was called. Nowadays, hand checks are constantly called. The fact remains that the NBA purposely has decreased their foul leniency to increase scores because teams are consistently shooting under 40% from the field. In the 80's and 90's, open players HIT open shots. Consistently! Teams shot 47% from the field regularly. Today, that's a great game. It's not because of the defense. It's because the league is filled with college-quality players who never learned the fundamentals of hitting jumpers and wanna make Sportscenter every night. Today's defense doesn't compare to the D's of yesteryear. Fellas, rent some old games and you will see what I mean.

                      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                      That's why they changed the rules. You know a player is special when they change the rules because of you (eg. Wilt and MJ).
                      "It's not how big you are; it's how big you play" - David Thompson

                      @nicroni

                      Comment

                      • 23
                        yellow
                        • Sep 2002
                        • 66469

                        #521
                        Re: How good is Kobe?

                        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                        no actually we don't know, back then it seems to me that more people were good at basketball, but these days it seems like there are better athletes in this game. And yeah km and gp helped but they are nowhere near as good as before, and i hope you know that as well.

                        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


                        More athletic, but can't play as well. The game has degenerated some. You know it's true. That's why no one player can take the torch from MJ like he did Magic and Bird. That's why you have guys in the L now who would have never survived in the 80's like Madsen, Miles, Rush, Medvedenko LOL. I guess GP and KM don't matter now though huh? The team is just fine without them, but when they play like utter trash the Lakers lose.


                        </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                        "You don't. D is not better now"

                        Yea you're right. Guys a couple of years ago were just some of those most special people ever created. The fact is that they all just shot so much better than everyone now, because well, they just shot better. Everyone scored in the hundreds because, well, they just shot a whole lot better. On top of that, the defense was better, so they must have really shot the ball a whole lot better. It takes much more to score on man-2-man defense than it does against the zone, man, guys must have shot the ball a whole lot better. DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!

                        <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">



                        Ever wonder why people praise Dallas' offense so much, and DET'd D so much?

                        Comment

                        • 23
                          yellow
                          • Sep 2002
                          • 66469

                          #522
                          Re: How good is Kobe?

                          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                          no actually we don't know, back then it seems to me that more people were good at basketball, but these days it seems like there are better athletes in this game. And yeah km and gp helped but they are nowhere near as good as before, and i hope you know that as well.

                          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


                          More athletic, but can't play as well. The game has degenerated some. You know it's true. That's why no one player can take the torch from MJ like he did Magic and Bird. That's why you have guys in the L now who would have never survived in the 80's like Madsen, Miles, Rush, Medvedenko LOL. I guess GP and KM don't matter now though huh? The team is just fine without them, but when they play like utter trash the Lakers lose.


                          </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                          "You don't. D is not better now"

                          Yea you're right. Guys a couple of years ago were just some of those most special people ever created. The fact is that they all just shot so much better than everyone now, because well, they just shot better. Everyone scored in the hundreds because, well, they just shot a whole lot better. On top of that, the defense was better, so they must have really shot the ball a whole lot better. It takes much more to score on man-2-man defense than it does against the zone, man, guys must have shot the ball a whole lot better. DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!

                          <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">



                          Ever wonder why people praise Dallas' offense so much, and DET'd D so much?

                          Comment

                          • 23
                            yellow
                            • Sep 2002
                            • 66469

                            #523
                            Re: How good is Kobe?

                            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                            no actually we don't know, back then it seems to me that more people were good at basketball, but these days it seems like there are better athletes in this game. And yeah km and gp helped but they are nowhere near as good as before, and i hope you know that as well.

                            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


                            More athletic, but can't play as well. The game has degenerated some. You know it's true. That's why no one player can take the torch from MJ like he did Magic and Bird. That's why you have guys in the L now who would have never survived in the 80's like Madsen, Miles, Rush, Medvedenko LOL. I guess GP and KM don't matter now though huh? The team is just fine without them, but when they play like utter trash the Lakers lose.


                            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                            "You don't. D is not better now"

                            Yea you're right. Guys a couple of years ago were just some of those most special people ever created. The fact is that they all just shot so much better than everyone now, because well, they just shot better. Everyone scored in the hundreds because, well, they just shot a whole lot better. On top of that, the defense was better, so they must have really shot the ball a whole lot better. It takes much more to score on man-2-man defense than it does against the zone, man, guys must have shot the ball a whole lot better. DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!

                            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">



                            Ever wonder why people praise Dallas' offense so much, and DET'd D so much?

                            Comment

                            • EWRMETS
                              All Star
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 7491

                              #524
                              Re: How good is Kobe?

                              Well Shaq kills Cartwright, Pippen kills Fox, Ho Grant is better then the Laker PF, and the PG is a wash.

                              Comment

                              • EWRMETS
                                All Star
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 7491

                                #525
                                Re: How good is Kobe?

                                Well Shaq kills Cartwright, Pippen kills Fox, Ho Grant is better then the Laker PF, and the PG is a wash.

                                Comment

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