Michael Jordan - The Legend

**MartinDihigo** · 06-11-2004, 01:00 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
HMcCoy said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Air23 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
poster said:
Great post McCoy, I often wonder why no one gives Wilt props like Babe Ruth gets props. And Jordan was amazing no doubt, but Kobe has done more at his age than Jordan. If Kobe played in the mid 80's with no defense he would easily have shot over 50% without a doubt. Defense didnt come into play until the bad boys, and then phil taught the bulls defense to win. Both are great but by the time he's done Kobe could have a career as eventful no matter what people think.

<hr /></blockquote>

You do realise that 1) Kobe has had Shaq on his team, and 2) defenses in the 80's were WAY better than they are today and players were were WAY more skilled and just as athletic as they are today, right?

I like Kobe (he's one of my favorite players today), but answer this: put Kobe on MJ's Bulls teams with the same opposition MJ faced (way more better teams than today and that is a fact)--do you think Kobe's team would be as successful as MJ's?

<hr /></blockquote>

80's defense sucked. Flat the F out. Most teams were still perimeter oriented with non-athletic but very skilled shooters. Team ball movement was emphasized, and Jerry West himself said that in his day coaches rarely doubled, everyone was responsible for his own man. Well in comes MJ, a guy who represented the new standard in athleticism.

Single coverage?

Craig Ehlo defending him?

Grimy ball (Riley Knick-style that is league norm, now) not invented yet?

MJ was a kid in a candy store. LeBron at 18 is a physical freak with quicks and an F'n 44 inch vertical! Imagine him in that era.

....

.....

Do you think that every body in the league was just that much better scoring the ball, dum dums?. Even the Bad Boys gave up 100+.

When Pat took over the Knicks, he realized defense was the key for THAT teams success, they didn't have the open-floor guys he had in L.A. He realized that if we grind, grab, push, smother, we can win. But damn, that takes alot of energy don't it? So on offense we SLOOOOOOOOW the rock, and run the offense through the post. Hello new NBA. Riley begat at least 15 current head coaches that subscribe to that philosophy. Larry Brown, Van Gundy, Carlisle, etc...nobody outside of N.J runs like the 80's. MJ pundits don't wanna' touch that.

<hr /></blockquote>

MJ dominated throughout his career. Some say he was a smarter into the 1990s

**Air23** · 06-11-2004, 06:15 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
HMcCoy said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Sarah said:
Sadly, I can say that you guys made a weak comparison between Kobe and Jordan. You are all just looking at statistics and who scored the most points and who shoot the winning shot.

Jordan is great not because he can score 30 points every night. He became great because he could make the players around him good and great. He made Pippen great from good, Longley from a bench player to a role player, Horace Grant became good from average, Paxson and Armstrong from nobody to become a good clutch and 3 point shooters. Ron Harper became a respected PG in the league, Bison Dele from nobody to become a descent PF that went to Detroit. Jordan's floor leadership and combined with his skills made him one of the greatest players to ever walk on the NBA.

Look what happen to those players after Jordan left, Kokuc was lost somewhere in the NBA and never heard from, Longley went back to his old role as a bench warmer, Harper dissapeared, and Rodman can't find a team to play with. Only a few players from Jordan's Bulls retain there skills, Pippen, Bison Dele, Steve Kerr as a 3 point and clutch shooter, Horace Grant before his age caught up with him. But one thing is for sure, those guys where never the same since Jordan left.

It might look like the Bulls lineup during there reign are stronger than what you guys compared, but also have to consider that those where also the years where 7 of the NBA's 50 greatest of all time are still playing on there prime. Charles Barkley, Ewing, Olajuwon, Malone, Stockton, Drexler, and David Robinson. Plus the Bulls also vanquished Shaq and Penny's Orlando Magic in the Eastern Playoffs. Right now the only player that is part of the 50 greatest player of all time and still on his prime is Shaq. And guess who is that big guy Kobe is playing with.

It's BIG DADDY SHAQ.

<hr /></blockquote>

That sucky Jordan "made us so much better" team won 55 games when MJ retired. Today that would have tied them with the Kings for 4th in the west. WITHOUT MJ.

Add Kobe to the Kings, and tell me who wins the title this year...

<hr /></blockquote>

And that same team was on it's way to missing the playoffs the next year til Jordan came back.

**Air23** · 06-11-2004, 06:15 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
HMcCoy said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Sarah said:
Sadly, I can say that you guys made a weak comparison between Kobe and Jordan. You are all just looking at statistics and who scored the most points and who shoot the winning shot.

Jordan is great not because he can score 30 points every night. He became great because he could make the players around him good and great. He made Pippen great from good, Longley from a bench player to a role player, Horace Grant became good from average, Paxson and Armstrong from nobody to become a good clutch and 3 point shooters. Ron Harper became a respected PG in the league, Bison Dele from nobody to become a descent PF that went to Detroit. Jordan's floor leadership and combined with his skills made him one of the greatest players to ever walk on the NBA.

Look what happen to those players after Jordan left, Kokuc was lost somewhere in the NBA and never heard from, Longley went back to his old role as a bench warmer, Harper dissapeared, and Rodman can't find a team to play with. Only a few players from Jordan's Bulls retain there skills, Pippen, Bison Dele, Steve Kerr as a 3 point and clutch shooter, Horace Grant before his age caught up with him. But one thing is for sure, those guys where never the same since Jordan left.

It might look like the Bulls lineup during there reign are stronger than what you guys compared, but also have to consider that those where also the years where 7 of the NBA's 50 greatest of all time are still playing on there prime. Charles Barkley, Ewing, Olajuwon, Malone, Stockton, Drexler, and David Robinson. Plus the Bulls also vanquished Shaq and Penny's Orlando Magic in the Eastern Playoffs. Right now the only player that is part of the 50 greatest player of all time and still on his prime is Shaq. And guess who is that big guy Kobe is playing with.

It's BIG DADDY SHAQ.

<hr /></blockquote>

That sucky Jordan "made us so much better" team won 55 games when MJ retired. Today that would have tied them with the Kings for 4th in the west. WITHOUT MJ.

Add Kobe to the Kings, and tell me who wins the title this year...

<hr /></blockquote>

And that same team was on it's way to missing the playoffs the next year til Jordan came back.

**Air23** · 06-11-2004, 06:15 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
HMcCoy said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Sarah said:
Sadly, I can say that you guys made a weak comparison between Kobe and Jordan. You are all just looking at statistics and who scored the most points and who shoot the winning shot.

Jordan is great not because he can score 30 points every night. He became great because he could make the players around him good and great. He made Pippen great from good, Longley from a bench player to a role player, Horace Grant became good from average, Paxson and Armstrong from nobody to become a good clutch and 3 point shooters. Ron Harper became a respected PG in the league, Bison Dele from nobody to become a descent PF that went to Detroit. Jordan's floor leadership and combined with his skills made him one of the greatest players to ever walk on the NBA.

Look what happen to those players after Jordan left, Kokuc was lost somewhere in the NBA and never heard from, Longley went back to his old role as a bench warmer, Harper dissapeared, and Rodman can't find a team to play with. Only a few players from Jordan's Bulls retain there skills, Pippen, Bison Dele, Steve Kerr as a 3 point and clutch shooter, Horace Grant before his age caught up with him. But one thing is for sure, those guys where never the same since Jordan left.

It might look like the Bulls lineup during there reign are stronger than what you guys compared, but also have to consider that those where also the years where 7 of the NBA's 50 greatest of all time are still playing on there prime. Charles Barkley, Ewing, Olajuwon, Malone, Stockton, Drexler, and David Robinson. Plus the Bulls also vanquished Shaq and Penny's Orlando Magic in the Eastern Playoffs. Right now the only player that is part of the 50 greatest player of all time and still on his prime is Shaq. And guess who is that big guy Kobe is playing with.

It's BIG DADDY SHAQ.

<hr /></blockquote>

That sucky Jordan "made us so much better" team won 55 games when MJ retired. Today that would have tied them with the Kings for 4th in the west. WITHOUT MJ.

Add Kobe to the Kings, and tell me who wins the title this year...

<hr /></blockquote>

And that same team was on it's way to missing the playoffs the next year til Jordan came back.

**Air23** · 06-11-2004, 06:21 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
HMcCoy said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Air23 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
poster said:
Great post McCoy, I often wonder why no one gives Wilt props like Babe Ruth gets props. And Jordan was amazing no doubt, but Kobe has done more at his age than Jordan. If Kobe played in the mid 80's with no defense he would easily have shot over 50% without a doubt. Defense didnt come into play until the bad boys, and then phil taught the bulls defense to win. Both are great but by the time he's done Kobe could have a career as eventful no matter what people think.

<hr /></blockquote>

You do realise that 1) Kobe has had Shaq on his team, and 2) defenses in the 80's were WAY better than they are today and players were were WAY more skilled and just as athletic as they are today, right?

I like Kobe (he's one of my favorite players today), but answer this: put Kobe on MJ's Bulls teams with the same opposition MJ faced (way more better teams than today and that is a fact)--do you think Kobe's team would be as successful as MJ's?

<hr /></blockquote>

80's defense sucked. Flat the F out. Most teams were still perimeter oriented with non-athletic but very skilled shooters. Team ball movement was emphasized, and Jerry West himself said that in his day coaches rarely doubled, everyone was responsible for his own man. Well in comes MJ, a guy who represented the new standard in athleticism.

Single coverage?

Craig Ehlo defending him?

Grimy ball (Riley Knick-style that is league norm, now) not invented yet?

MJ was a kid in a candy store. LeBron at 18 is a physical freak with quicks and an F'n 44 inch vertical! Imagine him in that era.

....

.....

Do you think that every body in the league was just that much better scoring the ball, dum dums?. Even the Bad Boys gave up 100+.

When Pat took over the Knicks, he realized defense was the key for THAT teams success, they didn't have the open-floor guys he had in L.A. He realized that if we grind, grab, push, smother, we can win. But damn, that takes alot of energy don't it? So on offense we SLOOOOOOOOW the rock, and run the offense through the post. Hello new NBA. Riley begat at least 15 current head coaches that subscribe to that philosophy. Larry Brown, Van Gundy, Carlisle, etc...nobody outside of N.J runs like the 80's. MJ pundits don't wanna' touch that.

<hr /></blockquote>

Oh my goodness, man. Did you just start watching the NBA? 80's defenses sucked? Man, the played TEAM defense back then. And had some of the best single defenders of all time--Michael Cooper, Bobby Jones, Dennis Rodman, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olojuwon, David Robinson.

LaBron would have got ate up by those guys. A high vertical don't guarantee a damn thing. If it did, Kenny "Sky" Walker would be considered one of the greatest players ever.

**Air23** · 06-11-2004, 06:21 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
HMcCoy said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Air23 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
poster said:
Great post McCoy, I often wonder why no one gives Wilt props like Babe Ruth gets props. And Jordan was amazing no doubt, but Kobe has done more at his age than Jordan. If Kobe played in the mid 80's with no defense he would easily have shot over 50% without a doubt. Defense didnt come into play until the bad boys, and then phil taught the bulls defense to win. Both are great but by the time he's done Kobe could have a career as eventful no matter what people think.

<hr /></blockquote>

You do realise that 1) Kobe has had Shaq on his team, and 2) defenses in the 80's were WAY better than they are today and players were were WAY more skilled and just as athletic as they are today, right?

I like Kobe (he's one of my favorite players today), but answer this: put Kobe on MJ's Bulls teams with the same opposition MJ faced (way more better teams than today and that is a fact)--do you think Kobe's team would be as successful as MJ's?

<hr /></blockquote>

80's defense sucked. Flat the F out. Most teams were still perimeter oriented with non-athletic but very skilled shooters. Team ball movement was emphasized, and Jerry West himself said that in his day coaches rarely doubled, everyone was responsible for his own man. Well in comes MJ, a guy who represented the new standard in athleticism.

Single coverage?

Craig Ehlo defending him?

Grimy ball (Riley Knick-style that is league norm, now) not invented yet?

MJ was a kid in a candy store. LeBron at 18 is a physical freak with quicks and an F'n 44 inch vertical! Imagine him in that era.

....

.....

Do you think that every body in the league was just that much better scoring the ball, dum dums?. Even the Bad Boys gave up 100+.

When Pat took over the Knicks, he realized defense was the key for THAT teams success, they didn't have the open-floor guys he had in L.A. He realized that if we grind, grab, push, smother, we can win. But damn, that takes alot of energy don't it? So on offense we SLOOOOOOOOW the rock, and run the offense through the post. Hello new NBA. Riley begat at least 15 current head coaches that subscribe to that philosophy. Larry Brown, Van Gundy, Carlisle, etc...nobody outside of N.J runs like the 80's. MJ pundits don't wanna' touch that.

<hr /></blockquote>

Oh my goodness, man. Did you just start watching the NBA? 80's defenses sucked? Man, the played TEAM defense back then. And had some of the best single defenders of all time--Michael Cooper, Bobby Jones, Dennis Rodman, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olojuwon, David Robinson.

LaBron would have got ate up by those guys. A high vertical don't guarantee a damn thing. If it did, Kenny "Sky" Walker would be considered one of the greatest players ever.

**Air23** · 06-11-2004, 06:21 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
HMcCoy said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Air23 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
poster said:
Great post McCoy, I often wonder why no one gives Wilt props like Babe Ruth gets props. And Jordan was amazing no doubt, but Kobe has done more at his age than Jordan. If Kobe played in the mid 80's with no defense he would easily have shot over 50% without a doubt. Defense didnt come into play until the bad boys, and then phil taught the bulls defense to win. Both are great but by the time he's done Kobe could have a career as eventful no matter what people think.

<hr /></blockquote>

You do realise that 1) Kobe has had Shaq on his team, and 2) defenses in the 80's were WAY better than they are today and players were were WAY more skilled and just as athletic as they are today, right?

I like Kobe (he's one of my favorite players today), but answer this: put Kobe on MJ's Bulls teams with the same opposition MJ faced (way more better teams than today and that is a fact)--do you think Kobe's team would be as successful as MJ's?

<hr /></blockquote>

80's defense sucked. Flat the F out. Most teams were still perimeter oriented with non-athletic but very skilled shooters. Team ball movement was emphasized, and Jerry West himself said that in his day coaches rarely doubled, everyone was responsible for his own man. Well in comes MJ, a guy who represented the new standard in athleticism.

Single coverage?

Craig Ehlo defending him?

Grimy ball (Riley Knick-style that is league norm, now) not invented yet?

MJ was a kid in a candy store. LeBron at 18 is a physical freak with quicks and an F'n 44 inch vertical! Imagine him in that era.

....

.....

Do you think that every body in the league was just that much better scoring the ball, dum dums?. Even the Bad Boys gave up 100+.

When Pat took over the Knicks, he realized defense was the key for THAT teams success, they didn't have the open-floor guys he had in L.A. He realized that if we grind, grab, push, smother, we can win. But damn, that takes alot of energy don't it? So on offense we SLOOOOOOOOW the rock, and run the offense through the post. Hello new NBA. Riley begat at least 15 current head coaches that subscribe to that philosophy. Larry Brown, Van Gundy, Carlisle, etc...nobody outside of N.J runs like the 80's. MJ pundits don't wanna' touch that.

<hr /></blockquote>

Oh my goodness, man. Did you just start watching the NBA? 80's defenses sucked? Man, the played TEAM defense back then. And had some of the best single defenders of all time--Michael Cooper, Bobby Jones, Dennis Rodman, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olojuwon, David Robinson.

LaBron would have got ate up by those guys. A high vertical don't guarantee a damn thing. If it did, Kenny "Sky" Walker would be considered one of the greatest players ever.

**Jistic** · 06-11-2004, 07:10 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Jistic said:
All in all I do think that Michael is/was the best. I don't even need to list the million reasons.

But I also can't even pretend that Kobe's not great as well. I mean he really is. And I root against him because I'm really not a fan, but I can't deny that he IS a special player. Too bad they didn't play head to head in MJ's prime, woulda been cool. But at least we gob MJ vs. Magic and MJ vs. BIrd, and 'Nique and Isaih....ah the good ol days.

<hr /></blockquote>

MJ did play against Kobe in his prome.

<hr /></blockquote>

Kobe played in the early 90's ?

**Jistic** · 06-11-2004, 07:10 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Jistic said:
All in all I do think that Michael is/was the best. I don't even need to list the million reasons.

But I also can't even pretend that Kobe's not great as well. I mean he really is. And I root against him because I'm really not a fan, but I can't deny that he IS a special player. Too bad they didn't play head to head in MJ's prime, woulda been cool. But at least we gob MJ vs. Magic and MJ vs. BIrd, and 'Nique and Isaih....ah the good ol days.

<hr /></blockquote>

MJ did play against Kobe in his prome.

<hr /></blockquote>

Kobe played in the early 90's ?

**Jistic** · 06-11-2004, 07:10 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
KDRE said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Jistic said:
All in all I do think that Michael is/was the best. I don't even need to list the million reasons.

But I also can't even pretend that Kobe's not great as well. I mean he really is. And I root against him because I'm really not a fan, but I can't deny that he IS a special player. Too bad they didn't play head to head in MJ's prime, woulda been cool. But at least we gob MJ vs. Magic and MJ vs. BIrd, and 'Nique and Isaih....ah the good ol days.

<hr /></blockquote>

MJ did play against Kobe in his prome.

<hr /></blockquote>

Kobe played in the early 90's ?

**Leon** · 06-11-2004, 07:25 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

I'm thinking he said he played against MJ in the comeback years, 96-98. Also, MJ was in his prime during those years, even if he was a little bit older.

**Leon** · 06-11-2004, 07:25 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

I'm thinking he said he played against MJ in the comeback years, 96-98. Also, MJ was in his prime during those years, even if he was a little bit older.

**Leon** · 06-11-2004, 07:25 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

I'm thinking he said he played against MJ in the comeback years, 96-98. Also, MJ was in his prime during those years, even if he was a little bit older.

**Jistic** · 06-11-2004, 07:31 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

MJ was already losing a step after his comeback....and that shows you how great he truly was. In 96 he was still great especially the shape he was in. I have all the Bulls finals games on tape. And in watching especially '91, and '92 he was just absolutely at his peak, the perfect basketball player.

**Jistic** · 06-11-2004, 07:31 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

MJ was already losing a step after his comeback....and that shows you how great he truly was. In 96 he was still great especially the shape he was in. I have all the Bulls finals games on tape. And in watching especially '91, and '92 he was just absolutely at his peak, the perfect basketball player.

Michael Jordan - The Legend

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