Michael Jordan - The Legend

23 · 06-11-2004, 12:04 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
And YOU forgot that until Kobe gets the same latitude that MJ, T-Mac, AI, and PP get you have no indication that he CAN'T reach that level. The first taste of freedom Kobe got, the league got itted on. String of 40+ point games sound familiar?

<hr /></blockquote>

Last year Kobe shot more than Tmac and Tmac still scored more, and won the scoring title. Even with Kobe ball hogging. That's why Shaq complains about passing the ball into him.

Point is, MJ is the GOAT, and Kobe is Shaq's shadowman his whole career.

**studman** · 06-11-2004, 12:07 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

and exactly how many of those 40 pt games did the Lakers win?

the Lakers could be a lot better if Kobe wouldn't force so much, look at the game tonight. he could've just settled down, rebounded, played D, got others involved. that would've freed him up, but NO. Kobe has to pout and Jackson as to take him out the game. c'mon.

these Kobe to MJ comparisons need to stop, cuz every game Kobe's play shows why he isn't in MJ's class. He's too selfish and not nearly as smart as Jordan was on the court.

and yes, today's defenses are so great that a 40 yr old Jordan can still avg 20+ a game.... Great D on a 40 yr. old. Kobe will be droppin' 20ppg at 40 too, right???

**studman** · 06-11-2004, 12:07 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

and exactly how many of those 40 pt games did the Lakers win?

the Lakers could be a lot better if Kobe wouldn't force so much, look at the game tonight. he could've just settled down, rebounded, played D, got others involved. that would've freed him up, but NO. Kobe has to pout and Jackson as to take him out the game. c'mon.

these Kobe to MJ comparisons need to stop, cuz every game Kobe's play shows why he isn't in MJ's class. He's too selfish and not nearly as smart as Jordan was on the court.

and yes, today's defenses are so great that a 40 yr old Jordan can still avg 20+ a game.... Great D on a 40 yr. old. Kobe will be droppin' 20ppg at 40 too, right???

**studman** · 06-11-2004, 12:07 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

and exactly how many of those 40 pt games did the Lakers win?

the Lakers could be a lot better if Kobe wouldn't force so much, look at the game tonight. he could've just settled down, rebounded, played D, got others involved. that would've freed him up, but NO. Kobe has to pout and Jackson as to take him out the game. c'mon.

these Kobe to MJ comparisons need to stop, cuz every game Kobe's play shows why he isn't in MJ's class. He's too selfish and not nearly as smart as Jordan was on the court.

and yes, today's defenses are so great that a 40 yr old Jordan can still avg 20+ a game.... Great D on a 40 yr. old. Kobe will be droppin' 20ppg at 40 too, right???

**Dynasty4Kobe** · 06-11-2004, 12:09 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
studman said:
and exactly how many of those 40 pt games did the Lakers win?

the Lakers could be a lot better if Kobe wouldn't force so much, look at the game tonight. he could've just settled down, rebounded, played D, got others involved. that would've freed him up, but NO. Kobe has to pout and Jackson as to take him out the game. c'mon.

these Kobe to MJ comparisons need to stop, cuz every game Kobe's play shows why he isn't in MJ's class. He's too selfish and not nearly as smart as Jordan was on the court.

and yes, today's defenses are so great that a 40 yr old Jordan can still avg 20+ a game.... Great D on a 40 yr. old. Kobe will be droppin' 20ppg at 40 too, right???

<hr /></blockquote>

Kobe couldn't be effective during the game because he didn't have the ball. He was the only one showing any kind of intensity on defense. He had Lindsey Hunter guarding him, now tell me, would Hunter be able to guard Kobe Bryant. And during that stretch where Kobe didn't get the ball, how well did the Lakers do?

**Dynasty4Kobe** · 06-11-2004, 12:09 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
studman said:
and exactly how many of those 40 pt games did the Lakers win?

the Lakers could be a lot better if Kobe wouldn't force so much, look at the game tonight. he could've just settled down, rebounded, played D, got others involved. that would've freed him up, but NO. Kobe has to pout and Jackson as to take him out the game. c'mon.

these Kobe to MJ comparisons need to stop, cuz every game Kobe's play shows why he isn't in MJ's class. He's too selfish and not nearly as smart as Jordan was on the court.

and yes, today's defenses are so great that a 40 yr old Jordan can still avg 20+ a game.... Great D on a 40 yr. old. Kobe will be droppin' 20ppg at 40 too, right???

<hr /></blockquote>

Kobe couldn't be effective during the game because he didn't have the ball. He was the only one showing any kind of intensity on defense. He had Lindsey Hunter guarding him, now tell me, would Hunter be able to guard Kobe Bryant. And during that stretch where Kobe didn't get the ball, how well did the Lakers do?

**Dynasty4Kobe** · 06-11-2004, 12:09 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
studman said:
and exactly how many of those 40 pt games did the Lakers win?

the Lakers could be a lot better if Kobe wouldn't force so much, look at the game tonight. he could've just settled down, rebounded, played D, got others involved. that would've freed him up, but NO. Kobe has to pout and Jackson as to take him out the game. c'mon.

these Kobe to MJ comparisons need to stop, cuz every game Kobe's play shows why he isn't in MJ's class. He's too selfish and not nearly as smart as Jordan was on the court.

and yes, today's defenses are so great that a 40 yr old Jordan can still avg 20+ a game.... Great D on a 40 yr. old. Kobe will be droppin' 20ppg at 40 too, right???

<hr /></blockquote>

Kobe couldn't be effective during the game because he didn't have the ball. He was the only one showing any kind of intensity on defense. He had Lindsey Hunter guarding him, now tell me, would Hunter be able to guard Kobe Bryant. And during that stretch where Kobe didn't get the ball, how well did the Lakers do?

**Sarah** · 06-11-2004, 12:17 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
studman said:
and exactly how many of those 40 pt games did the Lakers win?

the Lakers could be a lot better if Kobe wouldn't force so much, look at the game tonight. he could've just settled down, rebounded, played D, got others involved. that would've freed him up, but NO. Kobe has to pout and Jackson as to take him out the game. c'mon.

these Kobe to MJ comparisons need to stop, cuz every game Kobe's play shows why he isn't in MJ's class. He's too selfish and not nearly as smart as Jordan was on the court.

and yes, today's defenses are so great that a 40 yr old Jordan can still avg 20+ a game.... Great D on a 40 yr. old. Kobe will be droppin' 20ppg at 40 too, right???

<hr /></blockquote>

Man, at 39 years old Malone is still making an average of 25 points per game and in the top 10 of rebounds when he was in Uath.

**Sarah** · 06-11-2004, 12:17 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
studman said:
and exactly how many of those 40 pt games did the Lakers win?

the Lakers could be a lot better if Kobe wouldn't force so much, look at the game tonight. he could've just settled down, rebounded, played D, got others involved. that would've freed him up, but NO. Kobe has to pout and Jackson as to take him out the game. c'mon.

these Kobe to MJ comparisons need to stop, cuz every game Kobe's play shows why he isn't in MJ's class. He's too selfish and not nearly as smart as Jordan was on the court.

and yes, today's defenses are so great that a 40 yr old Jordan can still avg 20+ a game.... Great D on a 40 yr. old. Kobe will be droppin' 20ppg at 40 too, right???

<hr /></blockquote>

Man, at 39 years old Malone is still making an average of 25 points per game and in the top 10 of rebounds when he was in Uath.

**Sarah** · 06-11-2004, 12:17 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
studman said:
and exactly how many of those 40 pt games did the Lakers win?

the Lakers could be a lot better if Kobe wouldn't force so much, look at the game tonight. he could've just settled down, rebounded, played D, got others involved. that would've freed him up, but NO. Kobe has to pout and Jackson as to take him out the game. c'mon.

these Kobe to MJ comparisons need to stop, cuz every game Kobe's play shows why he isn't in MJ's class. He's too selfish and not nearly as smart as Jordan was on the court.

and yes, today's defenses are so great that a 40 yr old Jordan can still avg 20+ a game.... Great D on a 40 yr. old. Kobe will be droppin' 20ppg at 40 too, right???

<hr /></blockquote>

Man, at 39 years old Malone is still making an average of 25 points per game and in the top 10 of rebounds when he was in Uath.

**Sarah** · 06-11-2004, 12:20 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dynasty4Kobe said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
studman said:
and exactly how many of those 40 pt games did the Lakers win?

the Lakers could be a lot better if Kobe wouldn't force so much, look at the game tonight. he could've just settled down, rebounded, played D, got others involved. that would've freed him up, but NO. Kobe has to pout and Jackson as to take him out the game. c'mon.

these Kobe to MJ comparisons need to stop, cuz every game Kobe's play shows why he isn't in MJ's class. He's too selfish and not nearly as smart as Jordan was on the court.

and yes, today's defenses are so great that a 40 yr old Jordan can still avg 20+ a game.... Great D on a 40 yr. old. Kobe will be droppin' 20ppg at 40 too, right???

<hr /></blockquote>

Kobe couldn't be effective during the game because he didn't have the ball. He was the only one showing any kind of intensity on defense. He had Lindsey Hunter guarding him, now tell me, would Hunter be able to guard Kobe Bryant. And during that stretch where Kobe didn't get the ball, how well did the Lakers do?

<hr /></blockquote>

Oh man, is Kobe really that big that you did not see Shaq also has the same problem? It's Shaq's team you know. He is the captain.

**Sarah** · 06-11-2004, 12:20 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dynasty4Kobe said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
studman said:
and exactly how many of those 40 pt games did the Lakers win?

the Lakers could be a lot better if Kobe wouldn't force so much, look at the game tonight. he could've just settled down, rebounded, played D, got others involved. that would've freed him up, but NO. Kobe has to pout and Jackson as to take him out the game. c'mon.

these Kobe to MJ comparisons need to stop, cuz every game Kobe's play shows why he isn't in MJ's class. He's too selfish and not nearly as smart as Jordan was on the court.

and yes, today's defenses are so great that a 40 yr old Jordan can still avg 20+ a game.... Great D on a 40 yr. old. Kobe will be droppin' 20ppg at 40 too, right???

<hr /></blockquote>

Kobe couldn't be effective during the game because he didn't have the ball. He was the only one showing any kind of intensity on defense. He had Lindsey Hunter guarding him, now tell me, would Hunter be able to guard Kobe Bryant. And during that stretch where Kobe didn't get the ball, how well did the Lakers do?

<hr /></blockquote>

Oh man, is Kobe really that big that you did not see Shaq also has the same problem? It's Shaq's team you know. He is the captain.

**Sarah** · 06-11-2004, 12:20 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dynasty4Kobe said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
studman said:
and exactly how many of those 40 pt games did the Lakers win?

the Lakers could be a lot better if Kobe wouldn't force so much, look at the game tonight. he could've just settled down, rebounded, played D, got others involved. that would've freed him up, but NO. Kobe has to pout and Jackson as to take him out the game. c'mon.

these Kobe to MJ comparisons need to stop, cuz every game Kobe's play shows why he isn't in MJ's class. He's too selfish and not nearly as smart as Jordan was on the court.

and yes, today's defenses are so great that a 40 yr old Jordan can still avg 20+ a game.... Great D on a 40 yr. old. Kobe will be droppin' 20ppg at 40 too, right???

<hr /></blockquote>

Kobe couldn't be effective during the game because he didn't have the ball. He was the only one showing any kind of intensity on defense. He had Lindsey Hunter guarding him, now tell me, would Hunter be able to guard Kobe Bryant. And during that stretch where Kobe didn't get the ball, how well did the Lakers do?

<hr /></blockquote>

Oh man, is Kobe really that big that you did not see Shaq also has the same problem? It's Shaq's team you know. He is the captain.

**Leon** · 06-11-2004, 12:31 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
HMcCoy said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Air23 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
poster said:
Great post McCoy, I often wonder why no one gives Wilt props like Babe Ruth gets props. And Jordan was amazing no doubt, but Kobe has done more at his age than Jordan. If Kobe played in the mid 80's with no defense he would easily have shot over 50% without a doubt. Defense didnt come into play until the bad boys, and then phil taught the bulls defense to win. Both are great but by the time he's done Kobe could have a career as eventful no matter what people think.

<hr /></blockquote>

You do realise that 1) Kobe has had Shaq on his team, and 2) defenses in the 80's were WAY better than they are today and players were were WAY more skilled and just as athletic as they are today, right?

I like Kobe (he's one of my favorite players today), but answer this: put Kobe on MJ's Bulls teams with the same opposition MJ faced (way more better teams than today and that is a fact)--do you think Kobe's team would be as successful as MJ's?

<hr /></blockquote>

80's defense sucked. Flat the F out. Most teams were still perimeter oriented with non-athletic but very skilled shooters. Team ball movement was emphasized, and Jerry West himself said that in his day coaches rarely doubled, everyone was responsible for his own man. Well in comes MJ, a guy who represented the new standard in athleticism.

Single coverage?

Craig Ehlo defending him?

Grimy ball (Riley Knick-style that is league norm, now) not invented yet?

MJ was a kid in a candy store. LeBron at 18 is a physical freak with quicks and an F'n 44 inch vertical! Imagine him in that era.

....

.....

Do you think that every body in the league was just that much better scoring the ball, dum dums?. Even the Bad Boys gave up 100+.

When Pat took over the Knicks, he realized defense was the key for THAT teams success, they didn't have the open-floor guys he had in L.A. He realized that if we grind, grab, push, smother, we can win. But damn, that takes alot of energy don't it? So on offense we SLOOOOOOOOW the rock, and run the offense through the post. Hello new NBA. Riley begat at least 15 current head coaches that subscribe to that philosophy. Larry Brown, Van Gundy, Carlisle, etc...nobody outside of N.J runs like the 80's. MJ pundits don't wanna' touch that.

<hr /></blockquote>

So what if they gave up 100+? The lesson there is POINT DIFFERENTIAL. The '88-'89 Pistons scored 106.6 and gave up 100.8, a margin of 6 points. Here's another 80's team with good defense, the '85-'86 Celtics. They scored 114.1 and gave up 104.7, a margin of 9 points. Here's another, the '82-'83 Sixers. They scored 112.1 and gave up 104.4, a margin of 8 points. The last one, the '86-'87 Lakers. They scored 117.8 and gave up 108.5, a margin of 9 points. So clearly, 80's defense didn't suck.

Also, let's not get started on Lebron being all dominant if he was in that era.

**Leon** · 06-11-2004, 12:31 AM

Re: Michael Jordan - The Legend

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
HMcCoy said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Air23 said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
poster said:
Great post McCoy, I often wonder why no one gives Wilt props like Babe Ruth gets props. And Jordan was amazing no doubt, but Kobe has done more at his age than Jordan. If Kobe played in the mid 80's with no defense he would easily have shot over 50% without a doubt. Defense didnt come into play until the bad boys, and then phil taught the bulls defense to win. Both are great but by the time he's done Kobe could have a career as eventful no matter what people think.

<hr /></blockquote>

You do realise that 1) Kobe has had Shaq on his team, and 2) defenses in the 80's were WAY better than they are today and players were were WAY more skilled and just as athletic as they are today, right?

I like Kobe (he's one of my favorite players today), but answer this: put Kobe on MJ's Bulls teams with the same opposition MJ faced (way more better teams than today and that is a fact)--do you think Kobe's team would be as successful as MJ's?

<hr /></blockquote>

80's defense sucked. Flat the F out. Most teams were still perimeter oriented with non-athletic but very skilled shooters. Team ball movement was emphasized, and Jerry West himself said that in his day coaches rarely doubled, everyone was responsible for his own man. Well in comes MJ, a guy who represented the new standard in athleticism.

Single coverage?

Craig Ehlo defending him?

Grimy ball (Riley Knick-style that is league norm, now) not invented yet?

MJ was a kid in a candy store. LeBron at 18 is a physical freak with quicks and an F'n 44 inch vertical! Imagine him in that era.

....

.....

Do you think that every body in the league was just that much better scoring the ball, dum dums?. Even the Bad Boys gave up 100+.

When Pat took over the Knicks, he realized defense was the key for THAT teams success, they didn't have the open-floor guys he had in L.A. He realized that if we grind, grab, push, smother, we can win. But damn, that takes alot of energy don't it? So on offense we SLOOOOOOOOW the rock, and run the offense through the post. Hello new NBA. Riley begat at least 15 current head coaches that subscribe to that philosophy. Larry Brown, Van Gundy, Carlisle, etc...nobody outside of N.J runs like the 80's. MJ pundits don't wanna' touch that.

<hr /></blockquote>

So what if they gave up 100+? The lesson there is POINT DIFFERENTIAL. The '88-'89 Pistons scored 106.6 and gave up 100.8, a margin of 6 points. Here's another 80's team with good defense, the '85-'86 Celtics. They scored 114.1 and gave up 104.7, a margin of 9 points. Here's another, the '82-'83 Sixers. They scored 112.1 and gave up 104.4, a margin of 8 points. The last one, the '86-'87 Lakers. They scored 117.8 and gave up 108.5, a margin of 9 points. So clearly, 80's defense didn't suck.

Also, let's not get started on Lebron being all dominant if he was in that era.

Michael Jordan - The Legend

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