The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

[PabloLFC]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Now he is, much more a power forward in the first 7/8 years.


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[TMagic]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

I think Malone's edge defensively probably puts him ahead of Barkley.

If Warriors win another chip, you'd have to consider Draymond ahead of both right?

[lilteapot]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

If Warriors win another chip, you'd have to consider Draymond ahead of both right?

I don't know about that. Still too early

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[23]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

The heck does this have to do with the finals yall?

[TMagic]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

The heck does this have to do with the finals yall?

Cmon Dre. I had myself a nibble.

[23]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

That's why we have an off topic sticky

[Vni]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

I'am gonna miss this game due to technical difficulties. That ****ing sucks.

edit : Just as I say that, everything solved itself. Thank you jesus.

[wco81]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

I think Malone's edge defensively probably puts him ahead of Barkley.

Thing you remember about Malone is how many transition baskets he got because Stockman pushed the ball and hit him in stride going to the hoop.

Meanwhile, the signature plays you associate with Barkley, especially in his Philly days, is rebounding the ball and taking it coast to coast. The forwards who defended him couldn't run back with him and he abused the guards who tried to protect the goal.

[ojandpizza]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Thing you remember about Malone is how many transition baskets he got because Stockman pushed the ball and hit him in stride going to the hoop.



Meanwhile, the signature plays you associate with Barkley, especially in his Philly days, is rebounding the ball and taking it coast to coast. The forwards who defended him couldn't run back with him and he abused the guards who tried to protect the goal.

Malone transitioned his game well as he aged as a post up and screen and roll type.. But yeah the large chunk of his youth he pretty much scored a bulk of his points by outrunning his man to the other end.

[Scofield]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

The heck does this have to do with the finals yall?

Cmon Dre. I had myself a nibble.

LOL

10 char

[cima]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Obviously I want the Cavs to win, but I really want to see people's reactions if they win and win comfortably tonight with Love out.

[wwharton]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

Yeah I think a lot of the playing big talk, at least on the Cavs side comes from playing Mozgov vs Bogut, and seeing what OKC did with their bigs. But the Cavs don't have the bigs to play that way at all IMO. If Mozgov was last year's Mozgov, maybe, but this year was a down year for him.

Mosgov was a great signing mostly because the coach was Blatt and in his first year. I can easily see how he could get lost in the shuffle when they go from Blatt to Lue, and then you add the injury.

But whatever success CLE had last year (that didn't have to do with issues on GS like Curry not being 100%) came from trying to slow the game down and getting into a slugfest. Mosgov contributed to that but it was the overall theme that was really different. If you're going to play Delly, play to his strength... otherwise might as well throw Mo out there and have another offensive/shooting option. I don't know that they can just "go big" but they can move away from the run and gun style, expecting Kyrie and Lebron to go HAM like they've been able to do against other teams.

None of those players are in the class LeBron is in. They never had a claim to being the best in the game. The narrative before last year was all about the King coming home and bring his newfound success with him. Not only is that not likely to happen now it also appears to be a long term pipe dream.

LeBron has a good look at living out the rest of his prime as an also-ran. We don't typically see players of his caliber go through that phase until after their best years are long gone.

This is the grey area between Lebron superfans and Lebron superhaters. There is the class that he's in, and the class he's expected to be in. Because of his physical gifts, people still expect him to be in competition for the best NBA player ever... but he's not in that class right now. That's my problem with so many talking about what needs to happen around him for him to win titles. As good as he is physically, as high of a basketball IQ as he has and as much as he's matured, for whatever reason he hasn't been able to will teams to that next level. Sure, he's had some teams where it'd be insane for that to actually happen no matter who he is/was. But we really should pump the breaks on crowning him too much based on potential and look at reality.

Take MJ out of the league back then and say Utah wins 2 rings (very possible), is Malone considered the best in the league during that time? Possibly. Hakeem was brought up... he got his when Jordan was gone or he wouldn't have any rings either. Barkley had at least a year where he had an argument as the best player not named Jordan. So did Ewing, in a time when centers were the focus of most offenses and he was arguably the best.

Long story short, I think it's a mistake to say none of these guys are in Lebron's class. They're all HOFers and as good as Lebron is, I'd trust each of them more than him in certain situations. The man is a beast, but if his career tragically ended on Friday and we eliminated the "what ifs" I'm not putting him in a group above these players mentioned. And that's acknowledging the physical freak that he is, but in a team sport I don't know that I'd say he's done too much more as a part of a team than any of these guys.

He played during Jordan's era. And when Jordan was gone for that period of time was he better than Hakeem? I don't know am honestly asking as I wasn't old enough to know about that time period.


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It's a tough call. I think Hakeem is underrated personally. But during their time there were years Hakeem was definitely the best in the NBA but others where Malone was better imo.

EDIT: My bad, Dre

[ojandpizza]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

No but Malone played in a stacked HOFer era and was the best PF EVER until Duncan came a long. You don't dismiss the #1 player at a position ever like it's nothing. Other than MJ and Hakeem, there's pretty much no one in the 90s you could make an argument for being better than Malone.



I missed the original context of Malone even being brought up though, so I'm not really sure what's really even being argued. Was just saying Malone was the GOAT PF until Duncan arrived and that accounts for something.

Well yeah it counts for something, just not really relevant to this conversation lol.

For what you're saying though, I'm pretty sure he gets his due. The "ring" extremist hold some against him for not winning, but pretty much everyone has him in their top 5 PF group. So it's not like the guy doesn't get credit.

[Scofield]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

This is the grey area between Lebron superfans and Lebron superhaters. There is the class that he's in, and the class he's expected to be in. Because of his physical gifts, people still expect him to be in competition for the best NBA player ever... but he's not in that class right now. That's my problem with so many talking about what needs to happen around him for him to win titles. As good as he is physically, as high of a basketball IQ as he has and as much as he's matured, for whatever reason he hasn't been able to will teams to that next level. Sure, he's had some teams where it'd be insane for that to actually happen no matter who he is/was. But we really should pump the breaks on crowning him too much based on potential and look at reality.

Take MJ out of the league back then and say Utah wins 2 rings (very possible), is Malone considered the best in the league during that time? Possibly. Hakeem was brought up... he got his when Jordan was gone or he wouldn't have any rings either. Barkley had at least a year where he had an argument as the best player not named Jordan. So did Ewing, in a time when centers were the focus of most offenses and he was arguably the best.

Long story short, I think it's a mistake to say none of these guys are in Lebron's class. They're all HOFers and as good as Lebron is, I'd trust each of them more than him in certain situations. The man is a beast, but if his career tragically ended on Friday and we eliminated the "what ifs" I'm not putting him in a group above these players mentioned. And that's acknowledging the physical freak that he is, but in a team sport I don't know that I'd say he's done too much more as a part of a team than any of these guys.



It's a tough call. I think Hakeem is underrated personally. But during their time there were years Hakeem was definitely the best in the NBA but others where Malone was better imo.

EDIT: My bad, Dre

Welp, I guess I'll let it go at that. I think your reference to the grey area is interesting but I do disagree. Anyway, I'm sure there'll be many more opportunities to discuss all this.

[cima]

Re: The Finals: Cleveland Cavaliers vs. Golden St. Warriors Part 2

I just don't see the appeal of people still clamoring for Mozgov. He got abused in small ball last year in Game 4. Even though he scored 28, they lost by 20. Game 5 he plays less than 10 minutes in another double digit loss, and then Game 6 he goes back to 30+ minutes and they only lose by 8.

But 2015 Mozgov > > > > 2016 Mozgov. You guys really want him out on the perimeter trying to guard players? In what world is that a viable strategy? When you have to choose between Frye and Mozgov, you choose Frye since he can stretch the floor and light it up. You put Mozgov in there with Thompson and you get last year all over again.