2021 Offseason Thread

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  • TheFinalEvent97
    MVP
    • Jul 2016
    • 1519

    #481
    Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

    Per 36 is a bit meh imo because of...
    1. The assumption that players will remain the same with increased role/minutes (problematic since it tends to mean increased defensive/offensive attention/preparation against them from other teams.)
    2. Doesn't account for pace at all (per 75 possessions is a bit better than per 36 for this reason)
    3. Doesn't account for teammate/opponent lineup strength at all (for example playing the majority of your minutes in lineups with star teammates and/or against weaker opponent benches)
    4. Per 36 says basically nothing about defense

    Boring explanation complete

    Comment

    • King_B_Mack
      All Star
      • Jan 2009
      • 24450

      #482
      Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

      Originally posted by ojandpizza
      They’ve tried to trade Trez and Schroder every year even though this is their first year on the team? That makes sense. I didn’t try to polish up a turd. I stated what all their per 36 numbers were to reflect their likely stats with a bigger role considering they already play/have played close enough minutes to that as is. I didn’t even have to use them, every one of them has averaged 19 a game without using “per 36” so calling them 3 20 a night capable guys isn’t polishing anything. It’s just calling them what they are. I don’t know why me doing so led to people acting like I was hyping trash who can barley crack a rotation and used per 36 to give unrealistic numbers.

      Lakers do have a first they can trade, and they can also trade this years first once drafted. The same tactic they used last year to trade that pick to get Schroder. And when have I called any of those 3 guys trash? I spent the whole season saying he should play Trez more, play Kuz more. If anything I was hyping both of them more then any person in here but now I’m the one who called them trash all season? You’ve got the completely wrong guy in the completely wrong season to try and make that argument this time around.

      Lauri is probably pretty close to being a wash with Kuz on talent alone. Statically on their careers too. But the difference is Kuz is struggling and not getting as many minutes because he’s behind Bron and AD.. Lauri is losing minutes on a bottom 5 team in the East? To Thad Young, and a rookie who didn’t start in college? With injury history, no playoff experience, and is a worse defender.. tell me 1 reason any team in the league should consider them to have equal value right now?

      I do believe Kuz, Trez, Schroder is a better package than the Ingram, Lonzo, Hart package that landed AD. But they do have less picks to give up. Yeah Trez and Schroder likely are what they are, that’s why my post mentioned if they want to stay relevant and not tank, but ya know just yank away the context there.

      All I know is regardless of any trade that goes down, when Kuz is moved to a team where he gets a bigger role and he jumps to a 20+ a night guy I want my *** **** RESPECT from everyone in here [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] joking obviously….. sorta


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


      OJ typing a lot to say nothing again. I was speaking generally. Laker fans been trying to trade Kuzma every year for the last 2-3 years and he would be the center piece of any Laker trade for Dame cause Trez and Schroeder sure as hell ain’t it. Which brings me to my next point where Kuz will be 26 when the season starts, Trez is 27 and Schroeder will be 28 next year on top of looking to get paid huge while Pat Williams is 19, Coby White is 21 and Lauri is 24. But sure the rebuilding Blazers should be jumping all over the “vet” package because it’s substantially better than the young guys who still have plenty of room to grow in their careers.

      I love that the sell for Kuzma is that he’s struggling because he’s playing with the guy who’s claim to fame is that he makes everybody better on the team. At least that’s what I’ve been told for the last 17 years.

      I’m not even out here trying to sell anybody on Lauri because I personally don’t think he’s that good at all and I hated the damn pick when the Bulls got him. I see where his potential is, I just don’t think he’ll reach that. Certainly not here anyway. But this idea that the Lakers’ garbage is somehow “substantially” better than any teams offer is laughable. The Lakers have the worst package available for anybody interested in making a move.


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      Comment

      • ProfessaPackMan
        Bamma
        • Mar 2008
        • 63852

        #483
        Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

        King does have a point about how Lakers role players are treated during the season but then all of a sudden, they’re attractive enough to get an elite all NBA player in Dame, lol.

        I know y’all are playing Armchair GM and none of these proposals are actually gonna happen but it’s still funny to read.
        #RespectTheCulture

        Comment

        • Vni
          Hall Of Fame
          • Sep 2011
          • 14833

          #484
          Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

          The only way Dame gets traded to the Lakers is if he demands to be traded there and only there. That package gets Portland no where. They're not even bad enough to get you a top pick.

          Comment

          • The 24th Letter
            ERA
            • Oct 2007
            • 39373

            #485
            Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

            I'm willing to bet some GM is all in on Kuzmas potential in a new situation and LA gets a good piece for him...

            Honestly wouldn't be surprised if he does well and makes the "Look how the young players LeBron traded away are doing" meme with Ingram and Randle etc. by this time next year, lol

            Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

            Comment

            • DieHardYankee26
              BING BONG
              • Feb 2008
              • 10178

              #486
              Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

              Even if he says he only wants to go to the Lakers, what’s he gonna do, retire? If you’re Portland, do you care what he wants? If free agents aren’t signing there anyway, why even bother with a good faith effort?
              Originally posted by G Perico
              If I ain't got it, then I gotta take it
              I can't hide who I am, baby I'm a gangster
              In the Rolls Royce, steppin' on a mink rug
              The clique just a gang of bosses that linked up

              Comment

              • The 24th Letter
                ERA
                • Oct 2007
                • 39373

                #487
                Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                Thats easy.

                "pull a Harden"

                Lol

                Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

                Comment

                • Yeah...THAT Guy
                  Once in a Lifetime Memory
                  • Dec 2006
                  • 17294

                  #488
                  Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                  Originally posted by Vni
                  The only way Dame gets traded to the Lakers is if he demands to be traded there and only there. That package gets Portland no where. They're not even bad enough to get you a top pick.

                  Honestly even if he does that, I doubt he ends up in LA. He has so many years left on his deal that someone will be willing to gamble on him not holding out.

                  As for the Trez/Kuzma/Schroder stuff, if we’re arguing semantics, they aren’t garbage players. But they’re not moving the needle in a superstar trade; probably not even in a fringe all star trade. They just aren’t pieces that will get a GM excited and the Lakers don’t have picks that are good enough to be the centerpiece of a trade either.


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                  NFL: Bills
                  NBA: Bucks
                  MLB: Cubs
                  NCAA: Syracuse
                  Soccer: USMNT/DC United

                  PSN: ButMyT-GunDont

                  Comment

                  • ProfessaPackMan
                    Bamma
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 63852

                    #489
                    Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                    I just wanna know if we’re still going to be the “bad guys” next season or will that title fall to whatever other good team team acquires Dame, assuming he even demands a trade, which I don’t even think he will.
                    #RespectTheCulture

                    Comment

                    • DieHardYankee26
                      BING BONG
                      • Feb 2008
                      • 10178

                      #490
                      Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                      If I had a gun with 2 bullets, and I was in a room with Hitler, Bin Laden, and the Brooklyn Nets, I’d shoot the Brooklyn Nets twice.
                      Originally posted by G Perico
                      If I ain't got it, then I gotta take it
                      I can't hide who I am, baby I'm a gangster
                      In the Rolls Royce, steppin' on a mink rug
                      The clique just a gang of bosses that linked up

                      Comment

                      • dubcity
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • May 2012
                        • 17875

                        #491
                        Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                        Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                        I just wanna know if we’re still going to be the “bad guys” next season or will that title fall to whatever other good team team acquires Dame, assuming he even demands a trade, which I don’t even think he will.
                        If I still have to hear how great Blake Griffin is, ya'll will still be the bad guys lol. It'll probably wear off somewhat, like the year after the Kawhi Clippers didn't win anything the first go around.

                        Comment

                        • jfsolo
                          Live Action, please?
                          • May 2003
                          • 12965

                          #492
                          Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                          Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                          I just wanna know if we’re still going to be the “bad guys” next season or will that title fall to whatever other good team team acquires Dame, assuming he even demands a trade, which I don’t even think he will.
                          Yes, yes you will, although if Dame goes to the Warriors you will share the marquee as the Big Bad.
                          Jordan Mychal Lemos
                          @crypticjordan

                          Do this today: Instead of $%*#!@& on a game you're not going to play or movie you're not going to watch, say something good about a piece of media you're excited about.

                          Do the same thing tomorrow. And the next. Now do it forever.

                          Comment

                          • ojandpizza
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Apr 2011
                            • 29807

                            #493
                            Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                            Originally posted by TheFinalEvent97
                            Per 36 is a bit meh imo because of...
                            1. The assumption that players will remain the same with increased role/minutes (problematic since it tends to mean increased defensive/offensive attention/preparation against them from other teams.)
                            2. Doesn't account for pace at all (per 75 possessions is a bit better than per 36 for this reason)
                            3. Doesn't account for teammate/opponent lineup strength at all (for example playing the majority of your minutes in lineups with star teammates and/or against weaker opponent benches)
                            4. Per 36 says basically nothing about defense

                            Boring explanation complete

                            Ok, but what does any of that have to do with the discussion? You’re posting this as if somebody said “per 36 is a great metric to use”. That didn’t happen [emoji23]

                            1.) But all of these guys have played close enough to 36 minutes to know that production is achievable. I didn’t take guys putting up 5 points a night and use 36 minutes to prop them up to 20 a night guys. All of those guys have already averaged 19 points a game and played 30+ minutes a night.. I have no idea why the context of the players I’m taking about is being compared to using per 36 for a guy who could never possibly play 36 minutes a night.. that’s not what I’m doing here, why are y’all ignoring that?

                            2.) true, in many cases, but per 75 possessions doesn’t really matter when you are taking about the same season like this lol. Like that’s a great metric to compare guys playing in 2020 to guys playing in 2010, but we are talking about guys playing in the same year, the same rules, same league average pace. There isn’t really a need to take the extra step to get 75 possessions in this example. Bulls and Lakers had a pace of 99 this year, Blazers 98, it literally wouldn’t have mattered if I used 75 possession or not in this example. Rarely would it ever matter for a same season discussion anyways, you’d have to be comparing some crazy outlier at the bottom or top.

                            3.) it doesn’t, but all those guys have put up those same numbers playing with different line-ups, coaches, star teammates, etc. that’s why for all of them I referenced a multi year window and didn’t only look at their singular roles from just last season.

                            4.) Right, but my entire example was to say the Lakers had better trade chips than the Bulls. All of Kuz, Trez, Schroder are better defenders than Lauri, White.. I actually did mention Schroders defense, and Kuzma too. Either way, nobody ever said “well player A per 36 is this and player B per 36 is this so player A is better”.. I didn’t even use the per 36 to compare anybody to anybody.

                            I feel like y’all saw “per 36” and just decided to completely ignoring literally everything else that was said and the context it was used in because “per 36 bad”.[emoji23]. like I could have left the per 36 completely out of what I said and my entire post could have still been the exact same. I literally only used per 36 in this example because all 3 of those guys going to Portland would likely see a minute/usage bump to put them slightly closer to those per 36 numbers. That’s it.


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                            Comment

                            • ojandpizza
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Apr 2011
                              • 29807

                              #494
                              Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                              Originally posted by King_B_Mack

                              I love that the sell for Kuzma is that he’s struggling because he’s playing with the guy who’s claim to fame is that he makes everybody better on the team. At least that’s what I’ve been told for the last 17 years.
                              But King he’s not really “playing with him” now. He’s playing behind him and AD in small spurts. I said all year long he needed more time in the floor with the 2 of them and Frank just doesn’t do it. He’s struggling because he needs volume touches, that’s just the player he is. Everything else about his game took a big jump forward this year, until he was scared of Jae Crowder at least. Defense, rebounding, extra passes, etc. The year he actually did get to play more with LeBron he was scoring 19 a night and appeared to do just as you said play better alongside him. That’s why he’s the guy they kept in the trade. But Frank has different ideas man, play big, play defense, scoring be damned.


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                              Comment

                              • King_B_Mack
                                All Star
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 24450

                                #495
                                Re: 2021 Offseason Thread

                                Feels appropriate

                                IMG_5264.jpg


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