1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

[ojandpizza]

Re: 1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

That was dirty OJ. The first contact with the left arm was just a hard foul, but winding around and coming back around with the other arm and the fact that he then uses the left hand to pull down on Caruso's arm as he's swiping with the other hand tells us what was up on that play. If that didn't make it clear enough, the fact that he didn't even attempt to check on Caruso neither after the play OR after the game in addition to his little douche *** smirking and joking with his teammates during the review and after the ejection says it all.

I just think that’s all a reach. I think he swiped with the 2nd hand to avoid Caruso getting the and1. I think it’s a play we see in basketball nightly, it just doesn’t always result in a fall like that. JVG was saying the same during live replays. If he wanted to make a dirty play he could have hit him, undercut him, anything. He looked to attempt to avoid all of that, the momentum on this play just ended in a rough fall.

Like I said I’ve watched this many times now. His initial reaction was immediately looking at Caruso to see if he was ok. He didn’t kneel over him or get down on his knees but as soon as he turned and saw the fall his reaction seemed to be to check on Caruso.. he lands facing away from Caruso, and turns around starts to kneel like this.. but never got any closer once his teammates came up. I feel like that is a gesture of concern, not sure what else you would assume he was doing. To me looks like he was going to help him up before realizing he wasn’t going to jump up.



As far as smirking there was zero smirking after the fact. Grayson went to his bench, Caruso to his. Caruso seemed to be fine, nobody thought he was hurt at that point. Grayson didn’t smirk until teammates started talking in his ear (no telling what they said) and he smirked when they announced when he was ejected. Probably because he thought that contact didn’t warrant that. Regardless at the time everyone likely assumed Caruso to be fine. It wasn’t like “lol I broke his wrist let’s joke about it” like it’s being made out to be in hindsight.

Again that’s just me watching the reply for what it is and not just assuming it to be something else because it’s Grayson Allen. As you know I’m probably as big of a Caruso fan as anybody in here and have been for the past few years now, it’s not like I’ve got any bias in the other direction in this instance. But I also understand when you get a reputation sometimes that’s all that matters. He’s done it to himself, I just don’t think he was trying to make a dirty play here and opposite of you I thought his immediate reaction after also showed that he didn’t intend for that to be the result.

[ojandpizza]

1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

Nope, he could have went for the ball at the top and pulled back instead he grabbed both arms when he flew by. When someone is in the air like that, it is 100% a dirty play.

Pulling back could have given him the And1 chance.. He knew it was a foul when he missed the initial block… again this would insinuate they every time a player fouls like this with both arms that it’s dirty, not just the plays where the guy happens to fall hard.. sometimes that’s just momentum and physics.. I think we see plays like this nearly every night that nobody questions until the 2-3 a year that result in a weird landing.

The whole Morris and Joker blindsiding each other felt dirtier than this IMO.

[ojandpizza]

1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

This is where I’m at and I’m usually one that gives guys a long leash.

He’s been doing this since his dook days and it hasn’t stopped. Regardless if it’s intentional or not(none of them are intentional, we already know guys aren’t out there literally to hurt others on the court)it keeps happening “more often” with him than any other player and that’s a problem. And I’m sure he’s heard this from quite a few people and I imagine some of them have told him “Keep playing hard, you’re fine, they’re wrong” nonsense.

He has been doing this since his Duke days, but when has it continued to happen? That’s what I don’t get, has he even had another flagrant 2 in the league? People act like this happens weekly with him. Like we all know he was a dickhead in college, and we all hated him and Duke as well like any other normal person.. but I don’t see how that’s been his reputation as a pro.

[VDusen04]

Re: 1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

I thought it looked like he made an intentional decision to hack the hell out of Alex Caruso's arms as a means of nullifying any chance at a bucket. But I don't think he engaged with a master plan of using Caruso's arms as a means of flipping him to the ground face first.

Allen's reputation will do him no favors. There's going to be some extreme opinions out there (ban him for life, keep him out for as long as Caruso is, he'd been plotting to injure Caruso this whole time, etc.) but in a vacuum it just looks like a modern flagrant 2 with an unfortunate outcome.

Interestingly, the Caruso play sort of reminded me of this accidental Avery Johnson clothesline from '93.

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If Allen had the reputation of Avery, I imagine a number of us would call him dumb for making such a play and kind of move on. But since Grayson Allen is Grayson Allen—and since the play resulted in injury—I feel things are going to heat up a bit. I don't know if reputation is supposed to matter in moments like this, but it does. I can't help but think of a Bill Laimbeer parallel. We know he did dirty stuff all the time, so the moment an opponent gets hurt on what may have been an unintentional play, doubt is immediately and understandably cast.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

People act like this happens weekly with him.

And this matters to you because…why again?

That man don’t know you so why are you so pressed about how folks here are reacting or are calling him? [emoji2377]

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

I feel like I shouldn't have to specify this because it's simple common sense. but no one is suggesting that he launched some nefarious plot to intentionally hurt Caruso and only Alex Caruso and was just waiting for the perfect moment to do it or even that he leapt into the air looking to intentionally do something to injure the man. I'm pretty confident that no one in the NBA is doing that, even his bitch ***.

A dirty play does not automatically mean intent to injure. Often times those things align sure, but this isn't one of those times. There are lines that athletes don't cross because it is a brotherhood and they know how they all make their money. Going up with reckless abandon at a guy in the air in a vulnerable position like that is one of those lines. He didn't leap straight up making a play at the ball like in the THT play. He came across the body, going right across the arm. He didn't go up with the intention of injuring Caruso, but he sure as hell went up with the intent of if I can't get the ball, I don't give a **** what happens as a result.

[jfsolo]

Re: 1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

Pulling back could have given him the And1 chance.. He knew it was a foul when he missed the initial block… again this would insinuate they every time a player fouls like this with both arms that it’s dirty, not just the plays where the guy happens to fall hard.. sometimes that’s just momentum and physics.. I think we see plays like this nearly every night that nobody questions until the 2-3 a year that result in a weird landing.

The whole Morris and Joker blindsiding each other felt dirtier than this IMO.

IMO, if someone is in the air then this kind of play is always dirty. Even in game 7 of the Finals I would consider it dirty, but to go for a play like that just to prevent an And 1 in the first half of a game in January, nah. IMO Morris and Joker's play are both cheap shots, but not dirtier i.e. more dangerous, and ultimately irrelevant to this discussion.

[jeebs9]

Re: 1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

Is Morris even back yet? He's still out right?

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

Pulling back could have given him the And1 chance.. He knew it was a foul when he missed the initial block… again this would insinuate they every time a player fouls like this with both arms that it’s dirty, not just the plays where the guy happens to fall hard.. sometimes that’s just momentum and physics.. I think we see plays like this nearly every night that nobody questions until the 2-3 a year that result in a weird landing.

The whole Morris and Joker blindsiding each other felt dirtier than this IMO.

What are you even talking about could have given him an and 1?



He’s already knocked his shot off with the first contact. There’s no way an and 1 is possible at this point with how he’s hit his arm.



Here he’s now grabbed hold of Caruso’s arm with that left hand and yanked him completely out of the air. His right hand isn’t needed to prevent no damn and 1



Yeah Caruso was definitely about to score that basket unless Allen got that right hand up to keep the shot from getting up….


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[ojandpizza]

Re: 1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

And this matters to you because…why again?

That man don’t know you so why are you so pressed about how folks here are reacting or are calling him? [emoji2377]

I don’t understand what you’re asking really. It doesn’t matter to me outside the context of it just being part of this discussion? Saw this is his 2nd flagrant foul since being in the league but people are acting like this is just what he does. That’s all. VDusen made a point about Laimbeer, you expected it from him because that’s what he did routinely, the reactions from people expecting it from Allen just didn’t seem applicable to me because I don’t feel like that’s what he’s been about as a pro.

On some personal level or something deeper than it just being what was already being discussed here and all over the internet I give no ****s about what anybody thinks about Grayson Allen or any other player lol.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

I mean... he doesn't have to get a flagrant foul every time he does something dirty, how many flagrant fouls did Bruce Bowen finish his career with? Don't worry, I can answer that. 7. Does that mean he wasn't a dirty player?

[ojandpizza]

Re: 1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

What are you even talking about could have given him an and 1?



He’s already knocked his shot off with the first contact. There’s no way an and 1 is possible at this point with how he’s hit his arm.



Here he’s now grabbed hold of Caruso’s arm with that left hand and yanked him completely out of the air. His right hand isn’t needed to prevent no damn and 1



Yeah Caruso was definitely about to score that basket unless Allen got that right hand up to keep the shot from getting up….


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

He didn’t block the shot King. He didn’t even dislodge it from his hands with the foul. How often do guys get hit like that contort their bodies and get off a shot.. Are you really tying to insinuate that no player has ever fouled somebody to ensure that they couldn’t possibly finish off the play? Nobody said Caruso was for sure going to score. I said Allen fouled him, and got him with the other arm to make sure he didn’t score. Not that Caruso was going to 100% without a doubt make the shot if he didn’t. Like what are you even trying to argue, you’re talking absolute nonsense.

You’re literally saying that any time somebody touches the ball on a block/foul that it has no possibility of going in after that. You can even CLEARLY see in the 2nd picture you posted that even after the initial foul and the grabbing his arm that Caruso STILL has the ball in his hand could theoretically flip it up and score..

Sure when Grayson Allen jumps time slows down so slow that he’s basically watching everyone else in slow motion. He knew 100% that there was zero chance that Caruso had no possibility of releasing the ball and it going in. That 2nd arm was just for the **** of it, had nothing to do with common basketball logic.

[Speedy]

Re: 1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

I mean... he doesn't have to get a flagrant foul every time he does something dirty, how many flagrant fouls did Bruce Bowen finish his career with? Don't worry, I can answer that. 7. Does that mean he wasn't a dirty player?

Interesting comparison to Bruce Bowen.

Bowen forced the NBA to make it a shooting foul to move underneath a jump shooter's legs, because of so many injured ankles. Not to mention other stuff...

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

I don’t understand what you’re asking really. It doesn’t matter to me outside the context of it just being part of this discussion?

You quoted me talking about “People are acting like he does this weekly”. Other than King(who should have a right to be upset)nobody in here is treating him like he committed murder or asking for him to be banned or any **** like that.

He committed an unnecessary act and people responded accordingly. Even specified in my post that for some reason, he happens to be situations like this “more often” than any other player.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 1/11 - 1/24 Games Discussion Thread

I mean... he doesn't have to get a flagrant foul every time he does something dirty, how many flagrant fouls did Bruce Bowen finish his career with? Don't worry, I can answer that. 7. Does that mean he wasn't a dirty player?

Because OS has just been crawling with all his other dirty plays throughout the course of his career also.. Bruce Bowen also played when sliding under a shooter wasn’t called a flagrant foul. In todays NBA where pretty much everything is a flagrant foul then yeah I do believe there to be a bit more correlation in that sense. lol