NBA Off Topic Thread

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

sometimes there is no pressure,

Even if the superior doesn't mean to apply pressure, its there. The person making the request/demand isn't the one that gets to decide whether or not there is pressure involved

[dubcity]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

KD: I want Nash gone

*Nash is gone*

KD: I'm shocked that this happened

Nash: I think it's great that they had a "players only" meeting

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Even if the superior doesn't mean to apply pressure, its there. The person making the request/demand isn't the one that gets to decide whether or not there is pressure involved

You're insinuating that every single time in the history of any and all work "relationships" that somebody has made a request/demand and that is how that situation happened.. I'm saying that isn't always the case. That is how there would be no pressure. I'm not saying the person who applies pressure gets to decide what is/isn't pressure to the other person.

[ProfessaPackMan]

NBA Off Topic Thread

Finally a Celtics player comes out to the express his dissatisfaction with how things went down.

https://twitter.com/adamhimmelsbach/status/1587861447408852992?s=12&t=_60pgq7uKhX2c4SPoG3cUw

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I assume he’s not the only player who feels that way.

Edit: He’s not



Also, makes me think what Matt Barnes actually knows, if he even knows anything more than what’s out there.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

You're insinuating that every single time in the history of any and all work "relationships" that somebody has made a request/demand and that is how that situation happened.. I'm saying that isn't always the case. That is how there would be no pressure. I'm not saying the person who applies pressure gets to decide what is/isn't pressure to the other person.

Not at all what I'm saying but okay yall win. The idea that a workplace superior using their position of power in pursuit of sex is not at all predatory and suggesting otherwise is lol worthy.

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I think it’s more because you ask questions that appear to some of us to have really obvious answers, like if someone going after drunk people is a sexual predator.

I feel like I need to type out a thousands words to clearly explain exactly what I mean for you to not just assume I'm making the worst out of every single thing I say. Like I say "I like hotdogs" and you be running around quoting me that I'm anti hamburger because my post didn't also include "I also like hamburgers"..

Obviously some person who stays relatively sober with the intent of only hooking up with people too drunk to make sound decisions is predatory behavior. Not EVERY single person looking to hook up with people they meet at a bar is a predator. No matter how frequently they go, we can all **** however many people we want to ****.. The post, and most on this topic, made it sound as if any man who goes to a bar and sleeps with a female who had some drinks is a predator. Not every example is that, and my post was saying if it's something you wouldn't call a female a predator for then don't call the man that just because he's a man either.

I'm not talking about people getting people so ****ed up they don't know what they are even consenting to with the mindset that is what they were going to do before they even left their house.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I feel like I need to type out a thousands words to clearly explain exactly what I mean for you to not just assume I'm making the worst out of every single thing I say. Like I say "I like hotdogs" and you be running around quoting me that I'm anti hamburger because my post didn't also include "I also like hamburgers"..



The post, and most on this topic, made it sound as if any man who goes to a bar and sleeps with a female who had some drinks is a predator. Not every example is that, and my post was saying if it's something you wouldn't call a female a predator for then don't call the man that just because he's a man either.

I don’t think the post sounded like that at all. Maybe he needed to type a thousand words to clear it up for you.

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Not at all what I'm saying but okay yall win. The idea that a workplace superior using their position of power in pursuit of sex is not at all predatory and suggesting otherwise is lol worthy.

No ,what I'm saying is not every example of these instances is somebody using their power for sex.

Not saying your examples provided after the fact aren't examples of predatory behavior. I'm saying those aren't the only examples that exist. I have no idea if Ime fits into that or not until we know the details. Maybe he does, I'm not arguing he doesn't or does either way because I have no idea. I'm saying that the notion that every time people at work have a "relationship" and one is above the other with their position doesn't mean that every single time that person was displaying predatory behavior just by default. You insinuated as such, I've witnessed examples of both.

If a girl in accounting wants to **** a man from the cleaning crew nobody calls her a predator. If she wants to **** the CFO the CFO is by default the predator when we don't even know who initiated it with who, what her actually feelings were, or if he displayed predatory behavior or not. That doesn't make sense. Sometimes all of this is literally as simple as being attracted to somebody.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

No ,what I'm saying is not every example of these instances is somebody using their power for sex.

Not saying your examples provided after the fact aren't examples of predatory behavior. I'm saying those aren't the only examples that exist. I have no idea if Ime fits into that or not until we know the details. Maybe he does, I'm not arguing he doesn't or does either way because I have no idea. I'm saying that the notion that every time people at work have a "relationship" and one is above the other with their position doesn't mean that every single time that person was displaying predatory behavior just by default. You insinuated as such, I've witnessed examples of both.

If a girl in accounting wants to **** a man from the cleaning crew nobody calls her a predator. If she wants to **** the CFO the CFO is by default the predator when we don't even know who initiated it with who, what her actually feelings were, or if he displayed predatory behavior or not. That doesn't make sense. Sometimes all of this is literally as simple as being attracted to somebody.

I'm talking about Udoka's situation. They haven't released specifics but from what they have released, the writing is on the wall. Read it.

And so I felt comfortable enough with that to make an intentionally dumb joke where I called him a sexual predator because saying "a potential antisemite and a potential sexual predator walk into a room..." just didn't have the same zing to it.

My examples were in response to someone who "lol'd" at the idea that such a situation could be predatory, I have only mild objections to someone saying we don't know enough to label this case as predatory, I have strong objections to someone who says "Sexual predator for something somebody else also wanted and consented to? Nahhhh"

Thats my stance, we can revisit it if/when more info comes out.

Edit: Let me share another very public story that could shine some light on where I'm coming from. The president of France is married to a woman thats like 25 years older than he. She was once his teacher. They've been married for 25 years. Most people that study topics like this agree that she likely exhibited predatory behavior at the start of the relationship. However they also grant that it seems now like a happy and healthy relationship. The two are not mutually exclusive. Maybe we just have different concepts of what a sexual predator is. I think Leonardo DiCaprio is a sexual predator. But I'm still a fan of him as an actor. He's just the kind of guy I'd want to keep away from my daughter if I had one

[bigeastbumrush]

NBA Off Topic Thread

The investigation's findings. Read between the lines "...(h)e used crude language in his dialogue...verbiage on Udoka's part that was deemed especially concerning coming from a workplace superior...The power dynamic..."

I've worked at a company that had a toxic environment where middle and upper management used the office as their casual relationship repository. It never ended well for the underling. Even in the scenarios where it did have all the signs of "well its just two consenting adults who mutually decided to have an affair" in the end it was anything but.

Sure at the time she may have been happy to book those flights because she thought it would bode well for her career. Thats kinda what makes it predatory dude. It has similarities to older men who pursue young woman because the age gap creates a power dynamic.

My last comment on the matter until additional info comes out, I don't object to him getting a HC gig with the Nets. Not my intention to come off as saying he should be blacklisted from the league because of this. But if dude shows sexual predator tendencies, I'm going to call him that.

“He used crude language in his dialogue.”

That is such a vague statement. Especially for 2 people who were in a relationship with other people. You think he’s treating his side piece like a princess?

Maybe they were role playing and he took it too far.

Maybe she’s screaming duck tales because she’s the married one and wants to look like a victim. (This is what I believe to be true)

Consensual means they were cool with it until her husband found out.

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I'm talking about Udoka's situation. They haven't released specifics but from what they have released, the writing is on the wall. Read it.

And so I felt comfortable enough with that to make an intentionally dumb joke where I called him a sexual predator because saying "a potential antisemite and a potential sexual predator walk into a room..." just didn't have the same zing to it.

My examples were in response to someone who "lol'd" at the idea that such a situation could be predatory, I have only mild objections to someone saying we don't know enough to label this case as predatory, I have strong objections to someone who says "Sexual predator for something somebody else also wanted and consented to? Nahhhh"

Thats my stance, we can revisit it if/when more info comes out.

Edit: Let me share another very public story that could shine some light on where I'm coming from. The president of France is married to a woman thats like 25 years older than he. She was once his teacher. They've been married for 25 years. Most people that study topics like this agree that she likely exhibited predatory behavior at the start of the relationship. However they also grant that it seems now like a happy and healthy relationship. The two are not mutually exclusive. Maybe we just have different concepts of what a sexual predator is. I think Leonardo DiCaprio is a sexual predator. But I'm still a fan of him as an actor. He's just the kind of guy I'd want to keep away from my daughter if I had one

I get where you're coming from. I was speaking more so in general with my initial response, not really about Ime. I actually thought the joke was funny, hence why I didn't respond until your second post because it seemed as if you were insinuating any relationship in this type of situation must be predatory. My "consent" comment I meant actual consent, not consent after being pressured or made to feel like consent was their only option.

As far as the Ime situation, I've read what I could find, it's just so vague. "Crude comments" can be different from unwanted crude comments. Same articles paint the picture that they both wanted this, if she was engaging in the crude dialog it's not really something I can say one way or another from some article that doesn't better explain how this played out. If you read the texts between my wife and I you could find all sorts of "crude comments" from both of us I'm sure. But there is a difference in un-wanted Sarver-like crude comments, and crude comments between people who mutually want to engage in that type of banter.

I also find this example a bit un-comparable to a typical "superior".. He's the basketball coach. The only people I would assume he's directly superior over in the traditional sense would be the players he's coaching on the floor, and his assistants. This isn't like a boss who has a person under him/her that they are in a position to fire, give a raise, promote, etc. In the Sarver example those were HIS employees.. That doesn't seem like it would really apply here, at least in a direct apples to apples comparison. I still get it, the suspension and all, most work places that doesn't fly regardless and it always looks worse when someone can be labeled as the superior.

We have people like Matt Barnes claiming there is a lot more to this, but without knowing what that is I really don't see how the little details out there are painting the picture of predatory behavior IMO. At the same time I'm not going to claim it wasn't either, just saying I don't know with what info is out.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I get where you're coming from. I was speaking more so in general with my initial response, not really about Ime. I actually thought the joke was funny, hence why I didn't respond until your second post because it seemed as if you were insinuating any relationship in this type of situation must be predatory. My "consent" comment I meant actual consent, not consent after being pressured or made to feel like consent was their only option.

As far as the Ime situation, I've read what I could find, it's just so vague. "Crude comments" can be different from unwanted crude comments. Same articles paint the picture that they both wanted this, if she was engaging in the crude dialog it's not really something I can say one way or another from some article that doesn't better explain how this played out. If you read the texts between my wife and I you could find all sorts of "crude comments" from both of us I'm sure. But there is a difference in un-wanted Sarver-like crude comments, and crude comments between people who mutually want to engage in that type of banter.

I also find this example a bit un-comparable to a typical "superior".. He's the basketball coach. The only people I would assume he's directly superior over in the traditional sense would be the players he's coaching on the floor, and his assistants. This isn't like a boss who has a person under him/her that they are in a position to fire, give a raise, promote, etc. In the Sarver example those were HIS employees.. That doesn't seem like it would really apply here, at least in a direct apples to apples comparison. I still get it, the suspension and all, most work places that doesn't fly regardless and it always looks worse when someone can be labeled as the superior.

We have people like Matt Barnes claiming there is a lot more to this, but without knowing what that is I really don't see how the little details out there are painting the picture of predatory behavior IMO. At the same time I'm not going to claim it wasn't either, just saying I don't know with what info is out.

Fair, the only thing I would add is if a person exhibits predatory behavior but the other person seems receptive to it, is it still predatory? Thats rhetorical, but its in line with the idea that the difference between flirting and sexual harassment is whether the other person is interested. My suspicion is that in Boston's opinion, it didn't matter. The crude comments occurred prior to the start of the relationship and they have a policy against it, so he had to go.
(that question is genuinely rhetorical, I don't know where I fall on it)

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Fair, the only thing I would add is if a person exhibits predatory behavior but the other person seems receptive to it, is it still predatory? Thats rhetorical, but its in line with the idea that the difference between flirting and sexual harassment is whether the other person is interested. My suspicion is that in Boston's opinion, it didn't matter. The crude comments occurred prior to the start of the relationship and they have a policy against it, so he had to go.
(that question is genuinely rhetorical, I don't know where I fall on it)

If this is true, then why did she let him smash?

He must’ve put a gun to her head..smh

[3304Life]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

^ That’s just an objectively bad take

There are many reasons why it might be in a female employee’s best interests to go along with what her superior wants. This works for male employees too. It’s not difficult for people in power to distort a situation to make them look better. We’ve seen this in much higher stakes situations than a basketball team in the last, ****, half a century? If I’m put in a compromising situation by my employer or senior management and not going along with what they want can lead to my dismissal, I have a tough choice to make

Not saying that’s necessarily what happened and we don’t know whether the woman in question was coerced into this situation and let’s be real we probably never will. Even before we have any evidence we have several athletes coming out in defence of Ime. They don’t have any reason not to I doubt he treated them in the same way he may have treated this woman. But even if there was solid evidence to suggest that the woman was put into this situation by an abuse of power by Ime, how many people are going to actually believe her? I wouldn’t put my bets on it being a high number, that’s just the world we live in, especially in male dominated sports. **** my own hometown NFL team gave the max to a dude who has a list half the size of an NFL roster of women accusing him of various forms of assault

I don’t want to minimize any potential actions by Ime. My personal stance, and this is my personal stance and anyone feel free to disagree, is to side with women in these situations. They don’t stand to gain much out of it. The potential short term attention and financial gain is offset by being blacklisted by an entire industry. We’ve seen this before. I just don’t think it’s helpful to anybody to outright call him a predator because there will be people who think that’s a strong word to use against him and will over compensate by basically blaming the other party. It’s possible that both sides messed up but one has publicly cheated on his wife, a complete breach of trust, committed a workplace misdemeanor and manages to be suspended for about 6 weeks before getting one of the most high profile jobs in the world. The other has people on the internet saying “shouldn’t have let him smash”. That’s not a fair result

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

^ That’s just an objectively bad take

There are many reasons why it might be in a female employee’s best interests to go along with what her superior wants. This works for male employees too. It’s not difficult for people in power to distort a situation to make them look better. We’ve seen this in much higher stakes situations than a basketball team in the last, ****, half a century? If I’m put in a compromising situation by my employer or senior management and not going along with what they want can lead to my dismissal, I have a tough choice to make

Not saying that’s necessarily what happened and we don’t know whether the woman in question was coerced into this situation and let’s be real we probably never will. Even before we have any evidence we have several athletes coming out in defence of Ime. They don’t have any reason not to I doubt he treated them in the same way he may have treated this woman. But even if there was solid evidence to suggest that the woman was put into this situation by an abuse of power by Ime, how many people are going to actually believe her? I wouldn’t put my bets on it being a high number, that’s just the world we live in, especially in male dominated sports. **** my own hometown NFL team gave the max to a dude who has a list half the size of an NFL roster of women accusing him of various forms of assault

I don’t want to minimize any potential actions by Ime. My personal stance, and this is my personal stance and anyone feel free to disagree, is to side with women in these situations. They don’t stand to gain much out of it. The potential short term attention and financial gain is offset by being blacklisted by an entire industry. We’ve seen this before. I just don’t think it’s helpful to anybody to outright call him a predator because there will be people who think that’s a strong word to use against him and will over compensate by basically blaming the other party. It’s possible that both sides messed up but one has publicly cheated on his wife, a complete breach of trust, committed a workplace misdemeanor and manages to be suspended for about 6 weeks before getting one of the most high profile jobs in the world. The other has people on the internet saying “shouldn’t have let him smash”. That’s not a fair result

Udoka was not married. The woman is married.

Blows my mind that they had this consensual affair but the perception is that he coerced her into doing something.

That doesn’t even add up.